115 gr VS 230 gr

[Green Lantern]

Do I effectively double the firepower if I switch from a 115 gr to a 230 gr bullet?

[TXAZ]

Wow, that's a loaded question.
The energy imparted by the burning powder is relatively fixed. Doubling the mass will slow the bullet down, or may even cause the pressure to rise to a point that the barrell deforms or bursts.

Lots more variables than just doubling the weight, but no, it's very unlikely you'll double anything other than the mass of the projectile.

[tony pasley]

Nice way to reframe the caliber debate.

[jmr40]

If they are in the same caliber and at the same velocity yes.

The best predictor of bullet performance is penetration. The longer a bullet is in relation to diameter the better it penetrates all else being equal. A round ball is the poorest performer. The closer a bullet is to a round ball the worse performance you'll see. The longer in relation to diameter the better.

[Green Lantern]

The 115 gr is 9mm from Hi-point 995ts which I shoot now.

The 230 gr is 45acp from Hi-point 4595ts which I'm thinking of buying one.

[Aguila Blanca]

What's your definition of "firepower"? Nobody can answer your question until they know what the question is.

[Green Lantern]

Not trying to be funny here.

Found this from websters
firepower

1. The amount of fire which may be delivered by a position, unit, or weapon system.
2. Ability to deliver fire.



I'm speaking of one shot compared to the other shot. 115 VS 230.

[TruthTellers]

You get more penetration, maybe double. You don't get double the energy, you get about the same depending on velocity. Shooting a 230 grain .45 ACP isn't like shooting two rounds of 115 grain 9mm, but you use twice the amount of lead in the process.

I'm not a .45 fan unless it's in a revolver, however that doesn't mean I'm a 9mm either. I do see the superiority of two shots of 9mm vs one shot of .45 ACP though.

[Ridgerunner665]

Double the bullet weight.... Gain roughly 1/4 more kinetic energy. (Same velocity)

Double the velocity.... Gain roughly 4 times the kinetic energy. (Same bullet weight)

[TXAZ]

Based on your comments, I'll submit that "Firepower" is roughly proportional to muzzle energy.
A 115 gr 9mm has ~ 450 ftlbs, where a 230 gr .45 only has ~400 ft lbs, so the firepower isn't as expected

In comparison, the firepower of a .22 LR, at 150 ft lbs is about 1/3 the 9mm but 1/80 the firepower of a .50 BMG round.

[Rangerrich99]

So take this post with a grain or two of salt. And I also would like it if you could define what you mean by 'firepower,' a bit more precisely. That being said, the one thing I can say from personal experience from having shot a fair number of animals is this: all other things being roughly equal (velocity, construction, etc.) more massive bullets (heavier) deflect less than lighter or less massive bullets. If the bullet deflects, which it may not. Naturally, whether this matters to you is specific to your intended use.

In hunting medium- to large-sized game, I decided a long time ago I liked bullets to deflect less, and that preference has affected my choices in defensive handgun cartridges. I just don't like the idea of a lightweight bullet entering my attacker near the center of the chest, then hitting a rib and deflecting 60-90 degrees somehow and exiting at a random angle, where it might strike someone that wasn't even in the initial line of fire.

Of course, I don't have a huge pile of scientific data to support my belief that a 230 gr. .45 auto bullet won't deflect as much as a 115 gr. 9mm bullet, but by Newton's laws, the .45 auto bullet should deflect less. And my rather small amount of personal experience corroborates this. I've seen lightweight bullets hit a deer almost perfectly broadside and somehow manage to exit out of their rumps. Heavy bullets of the same caliber might also deflect, but consistently seem to deflect to lesser angles. Again, just my small amount of experience.

So with any defensive caliber cartridge, I always opt for the heavier ones.

[dogtown tom]

Green Lantern Not trying to be funny here.

Found this from websters
firepower
1. The amount of fire which may be delivered by a position, unit, or weapon system.
2. Ability to deliver fire.

I'm speaking of one shot compared to the other shot. 115 VS 230.

Using that definition the caliber, bullet weight, etc isn't a factor in "firepower".

It seems to actually refer to the volume ie number of rounds delivered.

[pete2]

It at least doubles plus it makes bigger holes.

[Sequins]

The short answer is no.

The longer answer is that velocity matters too. If you double the velocity as well you might have "double the firepower", but if velocity is unchanged I'd say you lost firepower.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

Not trying to be funny here.

Found this from websters
firepower

1. The amount of fire which may be delivered by a position, unit, or weapon system.
2. Ability to deliver fire.



I'm speaking of one shot compared to the other shot. 115 VS 230.

I wasn't trying to be funny, either. The definition you cited uses the usual, military sense of the term, and it's entirely unrelated to comparing one shot and deciding which bullet weight is better. As Dogtown Tom already noted, bullet weight isn't a factor (or certainly not the determining factor) in firepower. Firepower is more about how many projectiles you can put on target in the shortest amount of time, and how long you can sustain that rate of fire.

So ... in the context of your question, we're basically back to the caliber war. Which is "better," fast and light, or heavy and slow? If you choose muzzle energy as the primary determinant, a typical 115-grain 9mm has around 330 to 380 foot-pounds of muzzle energy for common ball ammo. Common .45 ACP, 230-grain ball (such as Winchester USA) is also 356 foot-pounds, so there's not a lot to choose from on the basis of just weight.

So you have to look at a lot more than weight. You also need to look at velocity, penetration vs. expansion, and size of wound channel. www.luckygunner.com has done several ammo comparisons ... I suggest you check out their web site and see if you can find an answer there that responds to your criteria.

Regardless of whether you like or dislike The Sportsmans Guide Company, their ammo pages are one of the few on-line sites I've seen that clearly tell you both the velocity and the muzzle energy for each ammo offering. So that's also a resource for information, even if you choose not to buy from them.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...mmo?d=121&c=95

[T. O'Heir]

"...The short answer is no..." No, is the only answer. Bullet weight has nothing to do with fire power. Neither does penetration, muzzle energy or muzzle velocity.
And Webster says, "...the capacity (as of a military unit) to deliver effective fire on a target."

[CDW4ME]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

Do I effectively double the firepower if I switch from a 115 gr to a 230 gr bullet?

Possibly, depends on pistols in question, example is not hi-point.
These pistols are close in length & height
Glock 36 holds 6 rounds
Glock 19 holds 15 rounds

In this example firepower is doubled, you can even use 124 or 147 gr.

[reddog81]

If my research is correct the 45 holds 9+1 rounds and the 9 holds 10+1 rounds. The 9 has 10% more firepower using your definition. The 45 has twice as much lead in the bullet but about 2/3's the velocity. There are numerous ways people calculate energy of handgun rounds and none of them are perfect.

The correct answer is - Buy the 45 and see which one you shoot better

[ShootistPRS]

The 9mm launching a 115 grain bullet at 1100 fps has a momentum of 18 pound feet per second.
A 45 ACP launching a 230 grain bullet at 850 fps has a momentum of 28 pound feet per second.
A 115 grain 9mm bullet has a (physics) sectional density of .0016 pounds per square inch.
A 230 grain 45 ACP bullet has a (physics) sectional density of .005 pounds per square inch.

None of this tells you which will penetrate deeper or which will do more damage on target. It is simply a mathematical comparison of the mass times the velocity and the amount of area density each round carries. Once the bullet hits a denser material (like a body) there are a lot more variables that come into play. It does suggest that under the speed of sound the 45 will transfer more momentum to the same target than the 9mm.

[Danoobie]

The other side of the coin is 9mm penetrates better than 45ACP,
whereas the 45 dumps more terminal energy into the target, even
if it penetrates. A little private ballistics testing is a real eye opener.

Using old BBQ propane cans, I've shot through 2 cans with 9mm -115gr
FMJ. The 45ACP- 230 gr FMJ usually doesn't cut through the first can, but
it leaves a huge dent.

[Rob228]

The 45ACP- 230 gr FMJ usually doesn't cut through the first can, but
it leaves a huge dent.

I bet that sounds awesome.

[1goodshot]

E=mc2
So no

[pete2]

The 9MM won't knock the steel plate down but the 45 will. It was proven a long time ago that the 45 was a better man stopper than a 38, still applies when you say 9MM. Maybe not double tho.

[Green Lantern]

Caliber: .45 ACP
Bullet Type: Jacketed Hollow Point
Category: Centerfire Ammunition
Bullet Weight: 230 Grains
Muzzle Velocity: 830 fps
Muzzle Energy: 352 ft/lbs

Caliber: 9mm (Auto, Luger, Parabellum, 9x19mm)
Bullet Weight: 115 Grain
Bullet Type: Full Metal Jacket Projectile (FMJ)
Rounds: 50 Rounds per Box
Muzzle Velocity: 1097 FPS
Muzzle Energy: 307 ft/lbs

So we find the 9mm has 45 ft/lbs LESS energy.
So here's the 147 gr 9mm choice.

Caliber: 9 MM
Bullet Weight: 147 Grains
Bullet Type: Full Metal Jacket Flat Point
Muzzle velocity: 1000 fps
Velocity at 50 yards: 953 fps
Muzzle energy: 326 ft/lbs

19 ft/lbs increase over the 115 gr.

[ShootistPRS]

Momentum moves a steel plate but it isn't enough to stop an attacker. Only damage to the central nervous system or rapid blood loss stops an attacker. The fastest way to stop an attacker is a brain shot. It is a hard target to hit so heart and lung shots are preferred. With body armor becoming more common body shots are becoming less effective. I am training for brain shots.