hand loading for 375 ruger

[stagpanther]

This is my first foray into a 375 bottleneck cartridge--because of the significant recoil, I was wondering if the over-all preference is for cannelured bullets. I have some hot cores, game kings and speer SP's on the way as well as a Lee factory crimp--my intent is to start out with mild loads to get used to both the cartridge and new rifle. I haven't seen anything anywhere that expressly says you should avoid bullets that do not have cannelures--but I assume a strong crimp is still needed. I'm wondering if using a crimp (a la Lee factory crimp) on a regular smooth jacketed bullet is enough to held the bullet in place safely.

[SHR970]

I'll offer my experience with an ultra light for caliber 375 rum. You had better use cannelured bullets unless you want your rifle to be a bullet puller while they are in the mag. The extra hold will also help against tip deformation when the rounds are being slapped around in the mag. well. Then there is the issue with COAL change and accuracy creep.

I have a Rem 700 AWR Custom Shop rifle that weighs in @ 8.25 with scope. Yours might recoil less but it will still kick much harder than a 30-06.

[stagpanther]

I'll offer my experience with an ultra light for caliber 375 rum. You had better use cannelured bullets unless you want your rifle to be a bullet puller while they are in the mag. The extra hold will also help against tip deformation when the rounds are being slapped around in the mag. well. Then there is the issue with COAL change and accuracy creep.

I have a Rem 700 AWR Custom Shop rifle that weighs in @ 8.25 with scope. Yours might recoil less but it will still kick much harder than a 30-06.

That is what my intuition tells me as well, appreciate the feedback. The Lyman's manual does have the smooth-jacketed bullets I bought listed with loads--I guess what I'll do is fire a few with the factory crimp but stop during firing and check the OAL's periodically. Do you use a healthy roll crimp into the cannelures? I'm still looking for the better cannelured bullets (at affordable prices). Can't seem to find accubonds anywhere.

[Jimro]

The Lee FCD will be able to deform the bullets enough that not having a cannelure won't be an issue if you really want those bullets held in place. Not always the best thing for accuracy, but you won't know until you compare.

Jimro

[stagpanther]

The Lee FCD will be able to deform the bullets enough that not having a cannelure won't be an issue if you really want those bullets held in place. Not always the best thing for accuracy, but you won't know until you compare.

Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

I use the FCD's on my 300wm and 6.5-284 on non-cannelured bullets like VLD's and usually retain sub-MOA accuracy with no problem--but in the case of the 375 it might be a question of how hard do you need to go to reduce recoil creep. I'll find out soon enough, but I appreciate hearing from those who have experience with it. : )

[stagpanther]

Yours might recoil less but it will still kick much harder than a 30-06.

I found a thread somewhere (unfortunately I didn't bookmark it) someone had done the math to show the exponential increase in recoil force for even very modest increase in velocity in the "big bore" cartridges, and then showed the factor of the rifle's weight as a very significant part of that increase in force. I knew that relationship existed --but was quite surprised how fast the recoil force goes up especially in a light weight (i.e. any hunting rifle you would be willing to haul into the bush) rifle.

[SHR970]

One thing you may wish to keep in mind. What you have is a Dangerous Game rifle...not a bench rest rifle. Even though it may be capable of MOA accuracy, you are dealing with something that is intended as a 150 yard gun. Double rifles do not as a general rule come close to MOA between barrels...pie plate accuracy at 100 yards is closer to the normal truth. If you intend to use it for 300-400 yard shots on Elk then what you want is a cold bore put it where you want it load. Chances are if you flub the shot you aren't getting a second in.

So the question becomes what is your intended role for your rifle?

[stagpanther]

One thing you may wish to keep in mind. What you have is a Dangerous Game rifle...not a bench rest rifle. Even though it may be capable of MOA accuracy, you are dealing with something that is intended as a 150 yard gun. Double rifles do not as a general rule come close to MOA between barrels...pie plate accuracy at 100 yards is closer to the normal truth. If you intend to use it for 300-400 yard shots on Elk then what you want is a cold bore put it where you want it load. Chances are if you flub the shot you aren't getting a second in.

So the question becomes what is your intended role for your rifle?

For now--mostly deer, elk or moose--but it's nice to have the option to deal with an angry/territorial bear should the need arise. I didn't buy it to be a bench cloverleaf-maker. But very good advice--thanks.

[SHR970]

Deer...the right bullet won't even open. Too small.

Lareger ungulates. 270 grainers will be doing what they were designed to do. Same for 49 th state bears. 300 gr.? O.K. you have hit the big five load.

Hint: use 225 gr. Hornady's for initial sighting. Your shoulder will thank you.

[stagpanther]

I just received my components goodie bag from Midway USA and decided to go with 235 gr hot cors driven by varget for my initial break-in and sighting loads. I used a lee factory crimp die and put a stout crimp onto the smooth jacket. While not a "true" full-power heavy load, it's still firing a big bullet at over 2600 fps and around 4000 ftlbs of energy; not a trivial load in my book. Now all I need is my rifle delivered.

Interesting case design, I believe it is touted by Hornady as an original new design. I whipped out a 300 wm cartridge and put it side by side with a 375--it looks to me like the 375 resembles a blown-out 300 wm case with the belt removed and shoulder angle reduced.

[Dufus]

If you want to load some lighter than full stuff, use the Barnes Originals.

They offer three bullets in the 0.375" offering and they shoot well. They also work good for game such as whitetail and others as long as you don't push them too fast.

I use them in 375 H&H and they are very accurate at modest velocities.

Forgot to mention they are 255 gr jacketed with cannelures.

[stagpanther]

If you want to load some lighter than full stuff, use the Barnes Originals.

They offer three bullets in the 0.375" offering and they shoot well. They also work good for game such as whitetail and others as long as you don't push them too fast.

I use them in 375 H&H and they are very accurate at modest velocities.

Forgot to mention they are 255 gr jacketed with cannelures.

Yes--I've looked high and low for them but nobody seems to have them--just the lighter and heavier ones. I did find some 250 gamekings and speer 270 BTSP which I think will do all right on thin-skinned game as long as not pushed to fast like you say.

[Dufus]

I've looked high and low for them but nobody seems to have them

The only place that I have purchased them is direct from Barnes, and Midway.

Midway currently has the 0.377" available. I have used them with no problem although I prefer the smaller ones (0.375").

[stagpanther]

I'm also interested in exploring lead cast options--but I gather that velocity and rifling depth accommodation had bitter be pretty precise or I would be in for some potentially serious fouling. I've found a few .379 22lbn gas-checked cast bullets which seem to be rated for higher velocities. I really don't know enough about this--but it seems like a cheap way to practice a lot--(let's leave out the nothing but full power all the time argument for now please).

[Dufus]

Starting out, I bought an old Marlin M1893 in 38-55. I had Accurate Molds make a custom mold for me as the rifle slugged at 0.381".

It casts at 260 gr. with wheel weights.

I started thinking that this would be a good choice for my 375 H&H as well.

Turned out it is. You can do the same with your 375 Ruger.

James Sage from Sage's Outdoors worked with me to give me a custom size gas check to work with my 38-55.

I use their regular size plain base gas checks for the 375 H&H. The cast bullets shoot really good and I do not have problems with leading.

I prefer to keep velocities close to 2000 fps.

With a good bore (meaning a polished finish) velocities can be higher with the right fit and right lube.

If you choose to go the route that I took, Tom at Accurate Molds can machine a gas check groove on any bullet design that you choose.

[stagpanther]

Starting out, I bought an old Marlin M1893 in 38-55. I had Accurate Molds make a custom mold for me as the rifle slugged at 0.381".

It casts at 260 gr. with wheel weights.

I started thinking that this would be a good choice for my 375 H&H as well.

Turned out it is. You can do the same with your 375 Ruger.

James Sage from Sage's Outdoors worked with me to give me a custom size gas check to work with my 38-55.

I use their regular size plain base gas checks for the 375 H&H. The cast bullets shoot really good and I do not have problems with leading.

I prefer to keep velocities close to 2000 fps.

With a good bore (meaning a polished finish) velocities can be higher with the right fit and right lube.

I'm not sure--but wouldn't performance depend on to some degree of the actual cut/depth of rifling in addition to bore dimension that the cast bullet seals to?

[Dufus]

The cut of the land and groove rifling has virtually no effect on cast bullets. The sizing of the bullet versus the groove diameter has noticeably more effect.

As long as the cast bullet is at least 0.001" to 0.002" larger, it will work fine.

Some folks size even larger.

I just talked to Ryan Farr at Barnes Bullets and he said the originals would go into production late April and be available next May.

The Barnes online store has been shutdown, but orders can be placed at 1-800-574-9200.

[stagpanther]

The cut of the land and groove rifling has virtually no effect on cast bullets. The sizing of the bullet versus the groove diameter has noticeably more effect.

As long as the cast bullet is at least 0.001" to 0.002" larger, it will work fine.

Some folks size even larger.

I just talked to Ryan Farr at Barnes Bullets and he said the originals would go into production late April and be available next May.

The Barnes online store has been shutdown, but orders can be placed at 1-800-574-9200.

Thanks for that--the .379 seems pretty common as an offering for .375.

[Dufus]

The above was stated with the assumption that your barrel has land and groove rifling.

Polygonal rifling is a different story with cast bullets.

[stagpanther]

The above was stated with the assumption that your barrel has land and groove rifling.

It is.

[stagpanther]

Interesting--the magazine is pretty much at it's limit at the SAAMI spec of 3.340--but I can get a COL way beyond that (a 270 gr speer SP to 3.575 for example) to chamber and engage lands. Seems like a lot.

[Nvreloader]

SP

You might want to try this trick, it may help.

You will have to punch the primers out before hand,
I use a universial RCBS decapping die, fits 22 cal on up.

When you resize the cases, take the expander ball out, before sizing,
this will promote a stronger bullet pull, providing all the resistance to the bullet possible in the case neck.

Then use a .357 expander pistol die to just slightly expand the inside of the case mouth,
to allow the bullet to be seated, without shaving the bullets base,
reload as normal and when you crimp, you'll remove the case mouth expansion etc.

I use this method on all my pistol (straight walled cases) when loading for certain powders like, 2400/296 etc.

Worth a try on that recoiling Mule.

Tia,
Don

[SHR970]

I'm also interested in exploring lead cast options--but I gather that velocity and rifling depth accommodation had bitter be pretty precise or I would be in for some potentially serious fouling.

Get a Lymans manual. There are enough loads that equal 38-55 through 375 Win with cast that you can easily do any deer in the 50 states. Hit an Elk and they will still go down.

Now that you know what the Starting loads are all about.. you can turn it up a bit. As you have noticed; proper hold is VERY important. Once you go 300 garian thumpers.. you'll know something about kick.

[mkl]

Re your barrel rifling:

The only issue I've ever heard regarding rifling being a problem with lead bullets is the Marlin 1895 in 45-70. The very first ones used "micro-groove" rifling just like all their other rifles. It was quickly found that they would not stabilize the large (.458") lead bullets. Seems like the inertia of the heavy bullets would prevent them from being firmly grabbed by the shallow micro-groove rifling. They sort of just skidded down the barrel.

Marlin corrected that by using Ballard (conventional) rifling in their 45-70's after the first year or so and all was fine.

Hard cast lead should work fine in your rifle as long as you keep the velocity in the range recommended for lead bullets.

[SHR970]

mkl.. Marlin went to Ballard Rifling with the Guide Gun. 1895's in 45-70 were made with microgroove for many years.