The Story Behind Those Pietta Bell-Bottom Grips

[JACKlangrishe]

EDIT: I've since been schooled, see posts below. Pietta did base the shape on Colt's design, and there may not have ever been a single "standard" shape. THANKS to the posters on this forum for the priceless images and education, and of course, THANKS TO PIETTA for making such wonderful reproductions.

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Original Post:

I plan on modifying them according to a combination of the Pettifogger docs and Duelist1954's approach to get a more accurate representation of what the 1860 Army's grips actually felt like.. but it made me wonder- Why make a reasonably accurate representation of the firearm, and totally wing it on the grip shape? Seems easy enough to re-create the original shape.. and with so many buyers re-shaping the grips, I wonder why they stuck with the current design?

Regardless.. It's another skill I can pick up as a hobbysmith, so I'm actually glad I have some meat to shave off. And, I'll always hand it to these companies for making such nice firearms at such affordable prices, so I'm not complaining.. just curious.

Also, In case I screw it up.. does anyone make a good representation of the original colt grips and grip frames that can be fitted to a repro?

Thanks as always!

[Hawg]

Early 51's had a flare on the back strap but not the front strap like Pietta. Pietta changed the grips in 2015 but made them thicker at the top. You can find the new style frames and grips on ebay but you have to have both straps and grips. New back straps won't fit old front straps. If you don't get a matched set off of the same gun the grips won't fit without work and sometimes not then.

[JACKlangrishe]

Wow, you're right.. even more dramatic difference back in 2012.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9VoItoqSYE&t=1m15s

I probably won't even have to remove as much material with the new shape.

[Hawg]

AAARGH you said army and I had navy on the brain.

[4V50 Gary]

Can someone explain why Pietta does this? A replica is supposed to be a replica, not an artistic interpretation.

[Hawg]

That doesn't irk me nearly as much as incorrect brass frames and calibers do.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Can someone explain why Pietta does this? A replica is supposed to be a replica, not an artistic interpretation.

Where is this written? Pietta is a just a manufacturer. They are not bound to any contract to exactly reproduce the lines of anything.

And you are not required to buy what they produce.

[swathdiver]

You lubin' yer guns with Smucker's jam again Hawg?

Unlike today, Colt's grips were not all of the same shape and dimensions during their run. There were many variations and that includes originals with the "Pietta tail".

[Model12Win]

Cry me a river and I'll build you a bridge so you can get over it.

Really though, it's a non issue. Pietta makes phenomenal revolvers and you'll just have to understand that they're not original... there's going to be differences (often this is intentional to dissuade forgers from selling them as originals). Does this affect the shooting characteristics and pride of ownership?

NO.

[Hawg]

Does this affect the shooting characteristics and pride of ownership

The grip shape does affect the feel of them tho.

[JACKlangrishe]

no complaints from me.. maybe a little sarcastic humor, but to be honest I was just curious.

I love this revolver, and it's unbeatable affordability. I hope they're still producing these fine guns long after I'm gone.

Regarding shooting characteristics and feel, I read some shooters claim the flared tail causes them to shoot high. Not my personal experience, and I would quickly be able to compensate for that.

[Hawg]

I read some shooters claim the flared tail causes them to shoot high. Not my personal experience

Nor me, I shoot new style or old style equally well.

[AKexpat]

I know the OP's thread is about 1860 Armies, but these plates are from Nathan L. Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies" (1967).

If there is a "correct" grip for the original Colt Navy model, I would like to know what it is.

Jim

[JACKlangrishe]

Wow.... Great Post AKexpat!

Well that shut me up!

[4V50 Gary]

Great post AKexpat.

[AKexpat]

Jack,

I sincerely hope that does NOT shut you up! Discussion is what BP forums are all about, especially where modern gun forums are different and competitive in their threads. None of us know everything, including me, and we all learn something. All of us had to start somewhere, and I am pointing the finger at me, not at you or anyone else.

As usual, Hawg hit the nail squarely on the head in post #2.

And, as usual, I am going to put in my $.02 worth for another comparison of Pietta 1851 Navy type grips with another picture.

The brasser is a Pietta Griswold and Gunnison .36 (date code [CN] 2015) with the newer grip style. The Pietta 1851 Navy Second Model Squareback .36 (date code [CM] 2014) "tail" grip style is the other. Hawg is spot on with his assessment of the trigger guard front-strap curvature and the backstrap curvature insofar as the wrist thickness. When you have them both in hand the difference is very obvious. I also have a Pietta 1851 Navy .36 (date code [CP] 2016) with the same grip configuration as the G&G, and it has the best trigger of the three pistols.

Again, to be clear, these are Pietta 1851 Navy types, not Pietta 1860 Armies.



Insofar as a "correct" replica, trigger guard sizes/styles, recoil shield differences, load-lever catches, trigger lengths, load-lever pivot screw, and loading aperture differences should be a consideration. Can anyone tell me how a "true" 1851 Navy replica should look?

I think Pietta has done a grand job delivering quality pistols at a very affordable price, and I DO believe someone at Pietta watches these forums and pays attention to the comments about their products. I have purchased all of mine from Cabela's at an average price of $200, all with either free or $5 shipping, and I always look for sales. What a bang for the buck, and I am retired with limited mad money.

Jim

[JACKlangrishe]

lol no worries! Just an expression, I have no plans on shutting up anytime soon. Especially if I can lure posts like this out of you ^ ! I'm loving these images!!

You know something.. for a second I thought.. gee I wonder if someone from the research dept at Pietta see's this post and interprets it as a complaint with my sarcastic sense of humor that I'm sure doesn't translate well over the internet nor in another country. I even contemplated trying to delete it or edit it to be blank, but then it started rolling and I figured I'm in now.

If anyone at Pietta sees this post, know that you are the reason I can even participate. I as well had to wait for my moment to spring on a deal from Cabela's and without the two of them offering sub $200 revolvers, I wouldn't be able to justify the purchase at this point. I've wanted one of these revolvers since I was just a kid staring at the tv screen, so for that.. THANK YOU!

[AKexpat]

Jack,

I think Pietta has an IT person well versed in English, and is, in fact watching the various forums. It's all about selling firearms and the bottom line, I think. Be that as it may be, I think they want to open their market a bit.

I can't think of another reason why they changed the grip profile on the Navies.

I think that is good for all of us Pietta fans. Not sure as how Uberti is doing, and Pedersoli is so expensive as to turn me off, even if they seem to be the premier Italian gunmaker in a different vein insofar as different firearms.

Jim

[Hawg]

AKexpat, some of my info on the new grips I got from you on the Colt forum.

my sarcastic sense of humor that I'm sure doesn't translate well over the internet nor in another country

JACKlangrishe, mine doesn't go over too well either.

[JACKlangrishe]

^ now That made me laugh!

[Oliver Sudden]

Jack if you don't like the grips change them. My new 1860 came with a stain that rubs off on my hand and when I pulled the gun apart the grip strap was under pressure and sprung out so the screws couldn't be put back in. I carefully bent it to a nice S shape to get all screws to line up and made a grip that I finished with varnish. No more red hands and feels good to me.

[Hawg]

I don't get it with Pietta and their stains. Some of them wash off with alcohol and some wont.

[AKexpat]

I don't get it with Pietta and their stains. Some of them wash off with alcohol and some won't.

I have three Pietta 1851 Navy .36 type pistols with three different types of wood.

While I admire Hawg for his expertise insofar as these pistols are concerned, I have to disagree with some of his opinions. I believe that he thinks that the backstrap, trigger guard, and wood are finished as one unit per pistol. In this day of CNC machining, that cannot be the case, IMO.

The first pistol was ordered from Cabela's as a Pietta 1851 Navy .36 with a round trigger guard, and I ordered a Pietta squareback TG from Taylor's and bought a nicely figured (IMO) hardwood grip with the red stain on Ebay.

I am sure you will notice that it is one of the last "tail" pistols produced.

The original grip wood an ugly quarter-sawed piece.

As you can see, they all fit pretty well.

(Date code [CM] 2014).





The next pistol is a Pietta G&G .36 with quarter-sawed wood (straight grain).

(Date code [CN] 2015)




The last pistol is a Pietta 1851 Navy Third Model (small round TG) with flat-sawed wood.

(Date code [CP] 2016)



I guess Pietta uses what wood they have on hand.

All of these pistols have had at least 2 coats of Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil, with a minimum of one week drying time before an application of #0000 steel wool between coats. After that, nothing bleeds through, and the finish is very hard.

[Lee44ShooterCnB]

Put yourself in Pietta's shoes. Forget about the language barrier/ problem.
If they did the research for the guns used in the CW and picked one or two to use as the "perfect" model s what would it/ they be?
Visit the website :
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/cat...le-shot-rifle/
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/revolver/

Now put yourself in the government for whatever side. Both sides were having or trying to have revolvers and rifles made to specs that the government itself (north and south) had trouble keeping with. Model this model that called this but was really that.
Now we have tv, internet and things to get the new changes out for anything. They had horseback and telegraph not to mention getting the drawings to the manufacturers.
I was an engineer for 43 years for the same company that had 42 plants in 7 states. With fax machines (remember those) and it was hard to keep the info up to date with the customer's changes. Lot of overtime and night time worries.
Got real crazy when we're went out of the USA.
I have a small collection for BP weapons and were purchased on sale or greatly reduced. I have said, I was born in the wrong time frame. I love the history of this great country and have had the pleasure of traveling the world and studied their history.
I know for the money Pietta is doing a great job and hope they keep it up. I am retired and love warm days that allow my tired body and old eyes to make boom with smoke and be legal doing it.

I have learned so very much from all of the posters in this forum
Thank you for your time and the information

[Hawg]

While I admire Hawg for his expertise insofar as these pistols are concerned, I have to disagree with some of his opinions. I believe that he thinks that the backstrap, trigger guard, and wood are finished as one unit per pistol. In this day of CNC machining, that cannot be the case, IMO.

Then how do you explain most grips not interchanging? Those two sets of grips I posted I bought to put on one of mine and neither fit. They couldn't even have been made to fit the dimensions were so far off.