The Nicest Mosin Sporter I've ever seen.

[deerslayer303]

I saw this thing at a LGS. The work was beautiful. It was built off a Tula Rifle. The bluing was stunning. The bolt work was beautiful and the action was slick as owl snot. The builder even blued the trigger and chromed the mag follower. It was at a great price but sad that the bore was atrocious. I would have bought it had it not been for that. Thought maybe you guys would appreciate seeing it.

[deerslayer303]

[tobnpr]

Meh...

Dunno, maybe it shows better in person, but doesn't float my boat much. Stock work is OK, but standard grade wood and is a bit beat up. Jeweling on the bolt not my thing, either- but that's just me.

But above all, I think it's crazy to sell a hunting rifle like that without a useable safety. The cocking piece has been bobbed to where it would be very difficult- if not impossible to operate.

I mod the cocking pieces on my "sporter" rifles like that as well to decrease lock time- but ONLY with a Timney trigger with the side safety. I've tried to grip, pull and turn a cocking piece like that- and it isn't easy.

[deerslayer303]

It was pretty slick looking to me, well until I looked down the bore. I didn't pay much thought to the cocking piece being turned down as I realize the safety on a Mosin is crazy anyway. I never chamber a round in the things until it's on the bench pointed down range. It almost looks to me like the butt stock is an addition to the original modified fore end. Had the bore been better it would be in my safe, and maybe add that trigger.

[deerslayer303]

I like the idea of having a sportered mosin, but I can't bring myself to spend the money required to make it the way I would want. And that one had it had a good bore would be a good place to start for me at 249 bucks.

[Wyosmith]

I did one a few months ago that stared out pretty rough.
I stoned out all the pitting on the action and bolt and replaced the barrel with a new green mountain barrel.
I set it up with a side mount and an old Weaver scope to have the classic look. I made a new stock, and I made new sights and zeroed them in at 150 and 300 yards. it also has a Timney in it.
I shot it with my handloads and it groups at about 7/8 MOA.

I love classic styling on these old world guns.

[deerslayer303]

WOW, that Rifle is BEAUTIFUL!!!!

[Wyosmith]

Thanks Deerslayer.

It is actually not finished yet.

I intended to carve oak leaf patterns in the grip and forend and fill those patterns with checkering, and I also have it in mind to do some engraving on the receiver and the magazine. The goal is to have a fine sporter as you might have found coming from Tula in the years before the 1917 revolution.

But if I am to sell it, the more fancy the rifle gets the harder it is for people to afford, and I thought I'd let it sit this way a while and if someone is interested.
Then if someone wants it they can tell me if they want me to go that “extra mile” and put another 4 -5 days of work in it.

Many Mosin Nagant shooters believe that they all must be “cheap rifles” but that is not the case. When we look at the machine work in a Mosin, it’s clear that it has far more intricacy’s than most modern rifles today.
I am reminded of the $29 and $35 Mausers we used to see in the late 60s and early 70s and how many thought that “Mausers are cheap rifles” then too, but they certainly were not. What they were is outstanding values that could be built into very nice hunting rifles.

I believe the M/N s of today may fall somewhat into the same category in the next few years.

The Mauser has the advantage of being easy to convert to feed many different cartridge, and the M/N will never compete in that way. But when we look at the 7.62X54R we see something that is about equal to a 30-06 or 308, so that covers most of the bases pretty well.

Such classic old guns are not going to overturn many sales of modern guns, but there is a following of the old styling among shooters today, and I like filling that demand when I can.

[Cheapshooter]

Wow, making a perdy sows ear out of a sows ear!

[tobnpr]

Very nice work...

I haven't done one with the Weaver side mount for a while- it's not common knowledge that mount works well on that receiver. I just wish they offered the rings in 30mm and not just 1". Good idea using that mount for a Scout type set-up enabling you to fit it with iron sights- are those from Williams?

[Wyosmith]

The front sight and base is from Williams. The rear is hand made, 2 blades. One standing and zeroed at 150 and the other is folding and zeroed at 300

[l.cutler]

As stiff as the safety is on a Mosin, I don't know how you could operate it on that first rifle. There isn't much to grip.

[Wyosmith]

I noticed that myself on that first picture.
I guess you just need to carry that rifle with an empty chamber, but I don't like that idea if you are hunting with it. Or you can do what Russian troops did to some extent. They carried the rifle loaded and chambered but left the bolt handle up.

on my custom Mosin I installed a Timney trigger which has its own safety. I have it set at 3 pounds and the pull is wonderful.
I inlayed a silver plate with S. and F. on the side of the stock just to spiff it up a bit, and because I was shown a picture of a very old rifle done that way in Russia. It was made before the 1917 revolution, but by who I cannot know for sure.
it was a nice old fashioned tough though.

[44 AMP]

Nicely done, Wyosmith!

The "yard long" bolt handle looks a bit odd to me, but I understand the function.

The main problem, for me, about doing even such a nice job on a Moisin Nagant, (or an SMLE, or even a Krag) is that when you get done, you still have a Moisin Nagant. (or SMLE, etc.)

Much better looking, and in most cases improved, but it's still what it was at heart, and the only suitable calibers are the original and wildcats based on that case.

40-50 years ago we did it to our Mausers, Springfields, etc., and not only was it a labor of love, it was also profitable. Not so these days, its only a labor of love, and to some, an act of desecration!

Somewhere out there is some jerk who thinks you "destroyed" a valuable important piece of history...of course, they're wrong about other things, too, but they are out there.

Here's another example of a "destroyed" piece of history, a real labor of love for someone, and I think they knew what they were doing, mostly....
It's a .308 Win, now...

[Wyosmith]

You are correct in that when you are finished with a Mosin you have a Mosin.


But you see, that exactly what many men and women want.
At least here in Wyoming I have a good demand for such things.

I make muzzleloaders for a living, and I earn about 85% of my wadges on them.
When they are done you have a flintlock or cap-lock. If someone wants a Weatherby or an AR-15 they don't order a flintlock. Same with all lever actions, Ruger #1s and so on.

Same with Single Action revolvers. They are not ever going to be able to fire 17 rounds without a reload.
But that has nothing to do with the market for them.

I find that with M/Ns I have a lot of business making nice shooters from junk, with rusted out bores and broken stocks, because every gun shop in this state was selling the low grade M/Ns a few years ago for $60-$69 each. There are a lot of them around now.

If the bores are good (about 1 in 3) I have call to restock them with laminates or plastic. I get a lot of call to make new bolt handles and install safety rings for scope use as well as some call for mounting scope bases and rings.
In doing this we get rifles that compare to the low end commercial guns in cost (like the Savage Axis) but the owners seem to want the Mosins more then they want an Axis. I don't argue with them, but I do tell them about the Axis and the Ruger Americans as well as some other options. if they want the M/N instead, I am all for it.

That one in the photos was rusty and the bore was a 100% loss and about 1/3 of the toe of the stock was gone and the handguard was split and o0ne half gone.
So it got a rebarrel job.
I had a piece of walnut too so I made a new stock. At that point I thought I may as well pull out the stops and do the rest so I made custom sights, a barrel band front swivel base, installed a per-war style butt, a steel grip cap, and an ebony tip.
Yeah, its a labor of love, but I am not alone. This is the 3rd one I have done this nice and the other 2 were sold before they were finished.

I was going to do a 1910-1920 style carving on the stock too and cover the action and magazine with engraving, but if I go that high-grade I may not find a customer that can afford if even if I only work for $15 an hour.

So I'll stop it here and see if someone wants it. if they do I will offer the other decoration and see if they want that in addition.

Such rifles are not wanted for just an ability to throw a bullet accurately, even if they do so super well.
They are wanted because they are cool!

[Model12Win]

I like Wyosmith's version a lot more.

[Wyosmith]

thanks 12.

]

[Surp]

Wyosmith What's something like that go for?
If you have shot it what's it shoot like with the new barrel?

[Wyosmith]

I have $740 in this rifle in parts alone, not counting any labor. As a rule I try to get $400 to put one together, but that will go up if I do carving, checkering or engraving.

With my best handload with Sierra 174 gr matchking .311" bullet and 4064 powder I am getting about 7/8" at 100 meters. I have not played with it much so far because I want to have it as close to "new" as I can when I offer it for sale, but I can assure you it shoots well.
With a bit of adjusting to the charge and the seating depth it may shoot a bit better, but I have not done it yet.

[Surp]

740 wow. I was wondering because I wanted a comparison for my own project.

The difference in mine is I wanted to make sure not to permanently alter the rifle in anyway since the only thing wrong with it when I got it was a sanded on stock. Even though it wouldn't really be my thing under normal circumstances in your case I commend you for putting the work/effort into that rife since it was pretty well a lost cause before you put your time into it.

Here is what I came up with.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps5c10dc45.jpg
The groups in the above collage were done before the bedding job and with a stock trigger that I added a spring to take up the slack and modified a spare sear I had.

I have since done a bedding job and added a Timney trigger (more for the safety) and these are the preliminary results of my first and only range trip so far.

50 yards with Wolf WPA Military classic 148gr FMJ. The flyer here was the first shot of the day and I knew I pulled it.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...psjtxbeadv.jpg

100 yards old school blue box X-match.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps8si9lhqu.jpg
I also shot one group with PPU 150Gr SP-BT and it was pretty darn good but I didn't get a picture of that one.

I am not the best shot by any means and don't reload so all things considered I am pretty happy with her first outing. Also what you can't tell from the pics is the bolt is by far the best I have personally felt on any Mosin bar none and with no handle modification. Makes the bolt on my stock M39 seem like as much fun to use as a standard Mosin safety.

[Wyosmith]

If you want to modernize a Mosin I would agree its probably best to leave the ones that are in excellent condition alone and work over the junk ones.

The rifle in my pictures has;
1. A new Green Mountain 24" barrel blank, which I turned down and fitted myself
2. A hand made walnut stock.
3. A new bolt handle welded on.
4. A Timney trigger.
5. A pre-war style steel butt plate
6. A steel grip cap.
7. An gaboon ebony forend tip.
8. A barrel band front swivel base and ball-head rear swivel, both made by me
9. Williams front sight and base.
10. A hand made rear sight with 2 blades for 150 and 300 yard zeros
11. a side mount scope and ring set.
12 a Weaver 1.5 to 5 scope.

So as you can see, about all I saved from the old junker was the action and magazine, and the bolt.

Such rifles cannot be made anywhere near as inexpensively as you can buy some new commercial rifles, if the mission statement is simply to get a rifle to hunt with.

[David Ozlo]

Glad I found this thread. I think that's some really great work. Gunsmiths should be encouraged.

[TRX]

> the only suitable calibers are the original and
> wildcats based on that case.

I know of at least four Mosins in .45-70. They'd probably feed wildcats based on that case as well.

[Wyosmith]

They can be converted to other calibers. I have seen 45-70s done as well as one 444 Marlin. But the ballistics of the original 7.62X54R are between the 308 and the 30-06, so for an all-around rifle, I can see no reason to change. Conversion to anything is going to require some action and magazine work. So you can change, but I can't understand why you would want to.
Brass and bullets cost the same as 30-06 , dies cost the same, and it uses the same primers and powders. If you don't reload, nothing you convert it to would be any less expensive to shoot, and no more available.

But......... I am the gunsmith and not the customer. I cater to what the customer asks for, so if someone was to want a 45-70 or a 444 I am not one that would have turned it down. I can even hand forge an extractor and bush the bolt face to work with a 22 Hornet or a 222 Remington as a single shot, so there are a lot of possibilities.
But if you want a magazine fed hunting rifle for deer, bear, elk, moose, and fun shooting, I see nothing out there that is as good as the Russian shell to put on a Mosin, let alone better.

Now days I am backing away from more orders for general gunsmithing jobs. I am buried in work, and I have more than I can handle now, so I need to stay on task and get the flintlocks done that are on the book.

But I am always happy to help other gunsmiths and students if I can. Sometimes just giving advice gained over 48 years is more helpful than anything else I can do for them.

A wise man learns from the mistakes of others, so he doesn't have to make them himself.

[Gunplummer]

I think Clark did one in .300 mag. I did one in 30-40 once. I have seen others, but the cartridge change was about lack of ammo at the time. Most do not remember the import laws years back and the unavailability of the ammunition. The only game in town was Norma and RWS. A box of either cost more than buying the rifle.