The Handgun Sling

Bartholomew Roberts · August 30, 2015, 10:48 AM

https://homeguntraining.wordpress.co...ing-herp-derp/

I thought this link might be interesting as fas as showing that not every product offered to gun owners is well thought-out or even especially safe. As a practical lesson, it pays to give some thought to a product before you buy it and think how it is going to work (or not work) for you. It is also a reminder that some manufacturers may have a substantially different opinion than the community at large on what constitutes safe gun handling.

I thought Tactics and Training would be a good forum to discuss this in as those who train frequently are likely to spot a few potential problems with this system.

Pahoo · August 30, 2015, 11:10 AM

Once again, it comes down to a mater of trust and even though I personally think this is a clever idea, I don't know how far I would trust it. Going to have to give this one some thought. ..

Be Safe !!!

afone1 · August 30, 2015, 11:28 AM

What a piece of garbage. You could make something like that yourself.

Sharkbite · August 30, 2015, 11:33 AM

Reminds me of the string holsters worn in Europe during WWII by the OSS. easy to ditch if needed

Pahoo · August 30, 2015, 11:33 AM

Quote:

What a piece of garbage. You could make something like that yourself.

If it's a piece of garbage, why would you consider making this yourself? ...

Be Safe !!!

aarondhgraham · August 30, 2015, 11:33 AM

It took me about 15 minutes to make one,,,
I have some small bungee cords.

It was very uncomfortable to me,,,
And the gun I used was a Ruger LC9.

It did work and held the gun nicely,,,
I just don't think I could wear it for long.

Aarond

.

g.willikers · August 30, 2015, 01:28 PM

That gizmo might be ok for carrying without a holster.
But is that ever the best idea?
Especially in the small of the back like in the video, where you could land on it if knocked down, doing serious damage to yourself and making it difficult to retrieve the gun.
Ditto for carrying it that way in the front - ouch.

JimPage · August 30, 2015, 02:36 PM

I'll take holster any day. And never on the small of my back.

DaleA · August 30, 2015, 03:55 PM

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this and starting a new discussion.

I personally have a very low opinion of the device but I never would have even been aware of it if you hadn't posted.

Thanks again.

Pond, James Pond · August 30, 2015, 04:47 PM

OK, it's novel, but I'd take a holster any day: the sling simply doesn't do anything that a holster doesn't do better. There is an additional step to drawing, the trigger is uncovered, the barrel obstructed and it give none of the support and contouring a holster does. Re-holstering would be near impossible one handed too. I imagine it is just cheaper... "Mexican" carry is just as safe and quicker to draw.

Good luck to the inventor but for me it is not an improvement just a plausible alternative for carry.

afone1 · August 30, 2015, 09:56 PM

Quote:

If it's a piece of garbage, why would you consider making this yourself? ...

I wouldn't want one myself. I'm meant that why would you buy it, when you could just make it yourself. You could probably use a shoestring.

9miller · August 30, 2015, 11:35 PM

Agreed, I much prefer my leather on a sturdy belt.

Model12Win · August 31, 2015, 12:10 AM

Marginally clever to see how it works, but I think it's a solution in search of a problem.

I wouldn't use it. Looks uncomfortable, slow draw, can't keep the gun ready to fire unless you're an idiot, and most of all just looks... uncomfortable.

Koda94 · August 31, 2015, 12:33 AM

I swear Rob Pincus talks about this handgun sling in this free vid...
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.co...CENSORED-=A218

(4:10 mark...)

I think this sling product is downright dangerous.

**JohnKSa** · August 31, 2015, 01:57 AM

Hopefully everyone here shudders at the idea of holding a loaded gun behind his/her back and sticking something up the barrel by feel. How that can be done while still maintaining proper muzzle discipline is beyond my ken.

Also sort of scary having a gun stuffed down one's pants without the trigger guard covered by a proper holster. Even with a manual safety it's troublesome since many people automatically disengage a manual safety when they take a grip on the gun.

The video is an excellent example of why reverse grip (reaching the fingers of the strong hand between the body and the gun) SOB carry is generally considered unsafe. Note how the shooter sweeps his hips with the muzzle as he brings the gun from behind himself towards the front. With the normal grip (thumb goes between the body and the gun) the tendency is for the muzzle to point downward and never sweep the shooter's body.

I suppose the device could be used with a conventional grip instead of a reverse grip, but that doesn't solve the problem of no trigger protection and the obvious muzzle control issues inevitable while "holstering" the pistol.

Another consideration is that the device that's inserted in the barrel will come in contact with barrel fouling. Not an issue for normal carry, but if one wanted to practice shooting from the draw with this device, it, and everything that comes in contact with it will become contaminated. Unless using lead-free ammo, that means lead contamination. While we expect some lead contamination during normal shooting practice, it's not typical to get that sort of fouling down the back of your pants or on that part of your clothing. Normally it would be restricted to getting on your holster and even then it would only be contaminated with fouling from the outside of the gun, not from what's in the barrel.

It would also be 'interesting' to see what happens if the "holster" were to wear to the point that the barrel insert came off and stayed in the gun and the gun were fired with the obstruction.

TailGator · August 31, 2015, 11:19 AM

I found it terribly ironic that the video ended with a disclaimer about the risks of violating firearm safety rules after demonstrably violating most or all of them.

zukiphile · August 31, 2015, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnksa

The video is an excellent example of why reverse grip (reaching the fingers of the strong hand between the body and the gun) SOB carry is generally considered unsafe.

Indeed. Notwithstanding other problems with tucking a pistol into the back of your trousers, increasing the risk of shooting oneself is no improvement.

I have on one occasion I recall put a pistol in the back waistband of my trousers. One anxiety I had was that the item would slip down and become hard or more dangerous to retrieve. I suppose this gizmo would alleviate some of that anxiety.

What really destroys any advantage this thing might present is the very thin plastic holsters that don't really add any width and are probably more comfortable than holsterless carry. If you were thinking far enough ahead to buy something, you would probably buy one of those.

psyfly · September 1, 2015, 11:24 AM

The basic idea has been around for a long time.

I first saw it used in the late 50s and it was explained to me, by the LEO who had fashioned his from a shoestring, as a stopgap/temporary evolution of the "Mexican Carry" idea which has been around even longer.

W.

Koda94 · September 1, 2015, 11:44 AM

I bet Mexican carry would have never been invented if they had safetyless striker fired pistols back in those days, let alone with something shoved up the barrel.

m&p45acp10+1 · September 1, 2015, 01:52 PM

I will stick with a small gun in a pocket holster over that.

pax · September 2, 2015, 10:00 AM

Loved Tamara's take on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamara

A learning-impaired tree sloth should be able to spot a number of glaring errors here. For instance, the handgun is carried right on the lumbar spine, which is practically an invitation to future hobbies like wheelchair basketball and getting to compete in 5k fun runs while sitting down.

Lots more funny where that came from. Worth the click.

pax

g.willikers · September 2, 2015, 10:35 AM

Speaking of the so called "Mexican Carry" method, (naked gun worn between shirt and pants) - with a proper fit, it could work quite well.
The first group of folks I got involved with for training mostly carried that way.
And no-one ever lost their pistols.
But they had the good sense not to be wearing loose fitting exercise pants with elastic waists, like the fellow who got in such hot water after letting his shooter get away from him and putting a bullet through his own leg in NYC.

Glenn E. Meyer · September 2, 2015, 11:14 AM

I have another suggestion on where to insert the tube.

Koda94 · September 2, 2015, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Speaking of the so called "Mexican Carry" method, (naked gun worn between shirt and pants) - with a proper fit, it could work quite well.

not at all with todays safetyless pistols. Even with an external safety or maybe with the hammer down I wouldnt go any farther than "could" work at best only in an emergency and certainly never with a chambered safetyless pistol.

g.willikers · September 2, 2015, 03:49 PM

Most of those folks I mentioned carried 1911s, hot range, cocked and locked, of course, and mostly Mexican style.
Even a few Glocks.
And no-one ever had an "accident" in the five years I attended their sessions.

All that changed when I started going to the local NRA-AP and USPSA matches, though.
Cold range, required and approved holsters, and rule books!
Eghads.
But it was all too much fun to complain.

August 30, 2015, 10:48 AM	#1
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The Handgun Sling https://homeguntraining.wordpress.co...ing-herp-derp/ I thought this link might be interesting as fas as showing that not every product offered to gun owners is well thought-out or even especially safe. As a practical lesson, it pays to give some thought to a product before you buy it and think how it is going to work (or not work) for you. It is also a reminder that some manufacturers may have a substantially different opinion than the community at large on what constitutes safe gun handling. I thought Tactics and Training would be a good forum to discuss this in as those who train frequently are likely to spot a few potential problems with this system.

August 30, 2015, 11:10 AM	#2
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Interesting and Clever Once again, it comes down to a mater of trust and even though I personally think this is a clever idea, I don't know how far I would trust it. Going to have to give this one some thought. .. Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

August 30, 2015, 11:33 AM	#6
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	It took me about 15 minutes to make one,,, It took me about 15 minutes to make one,,, I have some small bungee cords. It was very uncomfortable to me,,, And the gun I used was a Ruger LC9. It did work and held the gun nicely,,, I just don't think I could wear it for long. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

August 31, 2015, 12:33 AM	#14
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,363	I swear Rob Pincus talks about this handgun sling in this free vid... http://www.personaldefensenetwork.co...CENSORED-=A218 (4:10 mark...) I think this sling product is downright dangerous. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

August 31, 2015, 01:57 AM	#15
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,571	Hopefully everyone here shudders at the idea of holding a loaded gun behind his/her back and sticking something up the barrel by feel. How that can be done while still maintaining proper muzzle discipline is beyond my ken. Also sort of scary having a gun stuffed down one's pants without the trigger guard covered by a proper holster. Even with a manual safety it's troublesome since many people automatically disengage a manual safety when they take a grip on the gun. The video is an excellent example of why reverse grip (reaching the fingers of the strong hand between the body and the gun) SOB carry is generally considered unsafe. Note how the shooter sweeps his hips with the muzzle as he brings the gun from behind himself towards the front. With the normal grip (thumb goes between the body and the gun) the tendency is for the muzzle to point downward and never sweep the shooter's body. I suppose the device could be used with a conventional grip instead of a reverse grip, but that doesn't solve the problem of no trigger protection and the obvious muzzle control issues inevitable while "holstering" the pistol. Another consideration is that the device that's inserted in the barrel will come in contact with barrel fouling. Not an issue for normal carry, but if one wanted to practice shooting from the draw with this device, it, and everything that comes in contact with it will become contaminated. Unless using lead-free ammo, that means lead contamination. While we expect some lead contamination during normal shooting practice, it's not typical to get that sort of fouling down the back of your pants or on that part of your clothing. Normally it would be restricted to getting on your holster and even then it would only be contaminated with fouling from the outside of the gun, not from what's in the barrel. It would also be 'interesting' to see what happens if the "holster" were to wear to the point that the barrel insert came off and stayed in the gun and the gun were fired with the obstruction. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 30, 2015, 11:28 AM	#3
afone1 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Posts: 121	What a piece of garbage. You could make something like that yourself.

August 30, 2015, 11:33 AM	#4
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,822	Reminds me of the string holsters worn in Europe during WWII by the OSS. easy to ditch if needed

August 30, 2015, 01:28 PM	#7
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	That gizmo might be ok for carrying without a holster. But is that ever the best idea? Especially in the small of the back like in the video, where you could land on it if knocked down, doing serious damage to yourself and making it difficult to retrieve the gun. Ditto for carrying it that way in the front - ouch.

August 30, 2015, 02:36 PM	#8
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	I'll take holster any day. And never on the small of my back.

August 30, 2015, 03:55 PM	#9
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,384	Very interesting. Thanks for posting this and starting a new discussion. I personally have a very low opinion of the device but I never would have even been aware of it if you hadn't posted. Thanks again.

August 30, 2015, 04:47 PM	#10
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	OK, it's novel, but I'd take a holster any day: the sling simply doesn't do anything that a holster doesn't do better. There is an additional step to drawing, the trigger is uncovered, the barrel obstructed and it give none of the support and contouring a holster does. Re-holstering would be near impossible one handed too. I imagine it is just cheaper... "Mexican" carry is just as safe and quicker to draw. Good luck to the inventor but for me it is not an improvement just a plausible alternative for carry.

August 30, 2015, 11:35 PM	#12
9miller Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 169	Agreed, I much prefer my leather on a sturdy belt.

August 31, 2015, 12:10 AM	#13
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Marginally clever to see how it works, but I think it's a solution in search of a problem. I wouldn't use it. Looks uncomfortable, slow draw, can't keep the gun ready to fire unless you're an idiot, and most of all just looks... uncomfortable.

August 31, 2015, 11:19 AM	#16
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,809	I found it terribly ironic that the video ended with a disclaimer about the risks of violating firearm safety rules after demonstrably violating most or all of them.

September 1, 2015, 11:24 AM	#18
psyfly Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 932	The basic idea has been around for a long time. I first saw it used in the late 50s and it was explained to me, by the LEO who had fashioned his from a shoestring, as a stopgap/temporary evolution of the "Mexican Carry" idea which has been around even longer. W.

September 1, 2015, 11:44 AM	#19
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,363	I bet Mexican carry would have never been invented if they had safetyless striker fired pistols back in those days, let alone with something shoved up the barrel. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

September 1, 2015, 01:52 PM	#20
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,947	I will stick with a small gun in a pocket holster over that. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

September 2, 2015, 10:35 AM	#22
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Speaking of the so called "Mexican Carry" method, (naked gun worn between shirt and pants) - with a proper fit, it could work quite well. The first group of folks I got involved with for training mostly carried that way. And no-one ever lost their pistols. But they had the good sense not to be wearing loose fitting exercise pants with elastic waists, like the fellow who got in such hot water after letting his shooter get away from him and putting a bullet through his own leg in NYC.

September 2, 2015, 11:14 AM	#23
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,061	I have another suggestion on where to insert the tube. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

September 2, 2015, 03:49 PM	#25
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Most of those folks I mentioned carried 1911s, hot range, cocked and locked, of course, and mostly Mexican style. Even a few Glocks. And no-one ever had an "accident" in the five years I attended their sessions. All that changed when I started going to the local NRA-AP and USPSA matches, though. Cold range, required and approved holsters, and rule books! Eghads. But it was all too much fun to complain.