NEWBIE--powder/load selection

Taco-XL · January 7, 2015, 04:27 AM

Hey guys, just joined the site. Im gonna start off by saying I am 100% completely new to reloading--havent loaded anything yet, I'm still in the 'read as much as I can before attempting anything' phase. When I do feel I have read enough to start reloading, I will likely be reloading for an AR 308 build I'm working on as we speak. (20" heavy barrel, rifle gas, if that matters). Ill probably stay with bullets above 150g, mostly 165ish and up. I have done a little bit of reading on the subject of correct powders for a semi-auto, and it seems it is important to stay with medium or medium/fast powders (again, this is just what I have read). The Speer #14 manual lists these powders as "suitable for gas-operated semi-auto match rifles". Im assuming in order from slowest to fastest?

Varget, IMR 4064, 748, Reloder 15, IMR 4320, AA 2460, AA 2520, IMR 4895, IMR 3031, BL -C(2)

IMR 4895, H4895, and IMR 4064 seem to be mentioned alot for the AR 308 on forums I have read, as well as in either the Speer or Lyman manual (forget which). My noob question is if these are all acceptable, is it just flip a coin and pick one? Is there any of those to stay away from? Note I WILL be starting from the minimum as recommended per manuals and I doubt I will go anywhere near the max load, just to make myself feel safer. Also, my manuals say to start low and 'work up'. Is there a common increment in which to 'work up'? My manuals dont give any info on amounts. Sorry to ask such a lengthy question but all this new info has my brain swollen

MadDawg · January 7, 2015, 05:29 AM

Continue gathering data.
Look for other load data too.. One that I use, and that applies, is http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ .. Work up the type of loads that you would want to start with- and see what other powders are available. Then take the lists down to your local supplier of powder if you can find one & note the prices. I say this because your cheapest supplier of powder might be the local supplier because you aren't paying the hazmat/shipping charges per container like if you buy online. I assume that you will be shooting about 150 grain bullets. I say that Hodgdon applies- it applies to me because the supplier here uses Hodgdon/IMR and thus getting a pound [of gunpowder] here is cheaper than getting a pound online and paying shipping/hazmat fees. Find out what your local supplier carries... Primers are also similar with respect to hazmat/shipping charges. Also note that some powders are supposedly temperature sensitive; it may or may not affect you ; I don't plan on playing the hot end for .308 either.

Personally, I'd finish the AR, get some decent ammo to put thru it to break it in and verify its functionality, and then start worrying about reloading from that point. I'd start with about 500 rounds.. Shoot some first, then start reloading while keeping some manufactured stuff "ready"...

Some of the loads in the Speer manual are marked with an asterisk noting that that load was with a magnum primer. My understanding so far suggests increments of about 1/2 a grain. Like you, I am not sure whether substituting regular primers for the magnums have anything I should also account for; but then I might just go down and pick up some magnum primers and be done with it.

Here's another reference to peruse ; http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/308win/
Maybe re-read it a time or two.

jwrowland77 · January 7, 2015, 06:59 AM

First, Welcome to The Firing Line, and the very rewarding hobby/addiction of reloading.

Looks like your off to a good start. It's all about researching and asking questions, like your doing here.

On finding the right powder, I generally do exactly what you're doing. , I research. When starting a new cartridge, I'll research as much as I can, and make a list of the top 2-3 powders mentioned and see if I have those on hand. Then I'll consult all 6 of my manuals to see if those powders are mentioned in the load data (most likely will be).

I use the OCW method by Dam Newberry. Here's a link to the instructions for it.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspa...ons/4529817134

Some folks use it, some use a ladder test, some have another way they've done it for years.

Another good source besides manuals, which I suggest starting with no less than 2-3, Lyman's 49th and the bullet manufacture you plan to use most often. I really like the Sierra 5th edition and Hornady 9th edition.

If you can find a mentor locally, find one. A mentor can be very nice to have. I started with a mentor and I can't say enough good things about having one.

Looks like you're off to a great start.

Again, welcome to The Firing Line and reloading.

Blindstitch · January 7, 2015, 07:25 AM

The Lyman manual I have has many work ups and they say which powder was best for accuracy.

Taco-XL · January 7, 2015, 07:30 AM

Thanks for the replies...appreciate it. Yes i do have the Lyman 49th and the Speer #14. I am looking into the Hornady manual. Im also looking for a more in depth book about the actual step-by-step guides for setting up dies, etc. ABCs of reloading? is one some people mention. And i did not think of there being a hazmat shipping charge

Looks like $20+...Highway robbery. I might be forced into that as here in West Virginia there isnt CRAP as far as good gun stores, one or two here and there. The Cabelas here is a joke.

And i do plan to run a good bit of factory ammo thru my AR 308 before i start to reload...to test function, like you said, and also start brass collection from them.

jwrowland77 · January 7, 2015, 07:35 AM

Yes, the ABCs of Reloading is a very good book. That's what I started with and reloaded my first rounds using that book, along with manual, before I found a mentor.

Blindstitch · January 7, 2015, 07:39 AM

Ok back to what I was saying.

In the Lyman's Handbook 44th edition there is a chart that shows powders and grain bullets. Then under there is a selection called Accuracy Load and Factory duplication.

As an example for the 308 and 150 grain projectile

The accuracy load shows the use of 44 grains of IMR3031 powder reporting at 2824 feet per second.

The Factory duplication load is 42.4 grains of IMR 3031 at 2785 Feet per second.

But that still means that you should work up what works best for you.

hartcreek · January 7, 2015, 09:11 AM

You need to pay particular attention to the powders that require magnum primers and make sure that you use magnum primers with those powders. Hangfires are not fun and you can have a hang fire 30 seconds after you pull the trigger so it is better to avoid one by not goofing up and priming with the wrong primer.

I load for a .308 bolt and I had a bunch meaning several hundred cartridges primed and I found out that the powder that I had chosen to use required magnum primers once the weight got above 46 grains. I was lucky to find enough of another powder to load those cases and for the rest loaded magnum primers.

You will find that for a .308 ther are alot more powders available then the few that you listed. Being able to switch back and forth and not be stuck to using one or two powders is a good thing.

Bart B. · January 7, 2015, 09:12 AM

IMR powders 4895 and 4064 along with Varget and R15 have worked well in semiautos. These have good track records of winning and setting records in competition with semiautos using 150 to 180 grain bullets. All are extruded/stick powders that burn clean, consistant and leave minimal powder residues. Ball powders have not fared as well.

I don't think magnum primers are needed for any .308 load. Some standard primers put out more heat and flame than those sold as "magnum" ones. Matches have been won and records set with .308 cases using Reminton 7.5 small rifle primers igniting 48 grains of IMR4350 under 200 grain bullets in bolt action rifles; it's not for semiautos.

Nathan · January 7, 2015, 10:36 AM

When I'm thinking AR loading, im thinking volume loading.

I would avoid 100% charge density...to avoid spills.

I would look for ball powders for ease of metering.

I, for some reason, prefer Hodgdon family for rifle.

Then I read any powder profile articles or posts I can find.

Last, I look for high pressure(cycling), low charge weights for max load(economy) and price/availability.

trapper9260 · January 7, 2015, 11:14 AM

I have a DPMS 308LR that I load cast and jacket with and I use IMR4064 it works the best in this gun.I do not use mag primers in my gun there is no need for it for what works for me.Also the mag primers are more then the standard.If you had more then one powder that is listed on the data then I would say make some test loads and see what one works the best in your gun.The first thing on a semi auto is to make sure you have the gun to cycle and then go from there.If you have any thing you like to ask just me just PM.As for the places around you check if any of the stores can order for you.the supplies you want.I have a gunsmith here that dose that for me if I do not want to go for a long ride.If there is a gunsmith near you see if they can help you also and see if they are able to help you and get some of what you need.

Longshot4 · January 7, 2015, 11:32 AM

You are on the right track. What I look for is case capacity near 100%. Having a air space floating around in the case can't help accuracy. Also look for a powder with pressure on the lower side compared to other choices. That's my opinion. Good luck and keep us tuned.

jimbob86 · January 7, 2015, 12:11 PM

First, Welcome to TFL!

Quote:

Im gonna start off by saying I am 100% completely new to reloading--havent loaded anything yet, I'm still in the 'read as much as I can before attempting anything' phase.

An excellent plan! "First, understand the problem." comes to mind ....

I can't offer you any practical advice for loading for the .308WIN in an AR platform- most of the rifle loading I've done is for bolt and lever guns, and I'm just now getting around to loading for my AR ..... other than stick with published loads intended for the type of gun you are using (max velocity loads attained with slow burning powders might not be a good thing for semi-autos) and start at the "start" load and work up, returning to the "start" load whenever you change any component.....

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Rollin' Yer Own!

January 7, 2015, 06:59 AM	#3
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	NEWBIE--powder/load selection First, Welcome to The Firing Line, and the very rewarding hobby/addiction of reloading. Looks like your off to a good start. It's all about researching and asking questions, like your doing here. On finding the right powder, I generally do exactly what you're doing. , I research. When starting a new cartridge, I'll research as much as I can, and make a list of the top 2-3 powders mentioned and see if I have those on hand. Then I'll consult all 6 of my manuals to see if those powders are mentioned in the load data (most likely will be). I use the OCW method by Dam Newberry. Here's a link to the instructions for it. http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspa...ons/4529817134 Some folks use it, some use a ladder test, some have another way they've done it for years. Another good source besides manuals, which I suggest starting with no less than 2-3, Lyman's 49th and the bullet manufacture you plan to use most often. I really like the Sierra 5th edition and Hornady 9th edition. If you can find a mentor locally, find one. A mentor can be very nice to have. I started with a mentor and I can't say enough good things about having one. Looks like you're off to a great start. Again, welcome to The Firing Line and reloading.

January 7, 2015, 07:30 AM	#5
Taco-XL Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2015 Location: West Virginia Posts: 168	manuals Thanks for the replies...appreciate it. Yes i do have the Lyman 49th and the Speer #14. I am looking into the Hornady manual. Im also looking for a more in depth book about the actual step-by-step guides for setting up dies, etc. ABCs of reloading? is one some people mention. And i did not think of there being a hazmat shipping charge Looks like $20+...Highway robbery. I might be forced into that as here in West Virginia there isnt CRAP as far as good gun stores, one or two here and there. The Cabelas here is a joke. And i do plan to run a good bit of factory ammo thru my AR 308 before i start to reload...to test function, like you said, and also start brass collection from them.

January 7, 2015, 09:12 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	IMR powders 4895 and 4064 along with Varget and R15 have worked well in semiautos. These have good track records of winning and setting records in competition with semiautos using 150 to 180 grain bullets. All are extruded/stick powders that burn clean, consistant and leave minimal powder residues. Ball powders have not fared as well. I don't think magnum primers are needed for any .308 load. Some standard primers put out more heat and flame than those sold as "magnum" ones. Matches have been won and records set with .308 cases using Reminton 7.5 small rifle primers igniting 48 grains of IMR4350 under 200 grain bullets in bolt action rifles; it's not for semiautos. Last edited by Bart B.; January 7, 2015 at 09:17 AM.

January 7, 2015, 04:27 AM	#1
Taco-XL Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2015 Location: West Virginia Posts: 168	NEWBIE--powder/load selection Hey guys, just joined the site. Im gonna start off by saying I am 100% completely new to reloading--havent loaded anything yet, I'm still in the 'read as much as I can before attempting anything' phase. When I do feel I have read enough to start reloading, I will likely be reloading for an AR 308 build I'm working on as we speak. (20" heavy barrel, rifle gas, if that matters). Ill probably stay with bullets above 150g, mostly 165ish and up. I have done a little bit of reading on the subject of correct powders for a semi-auto, and it seems it is important to stay with medium or medium/fast powders (again, this is just what I have read). The Speer #14 manual lists these powders as "suitable for gas-operated semi-auto match rifles". Im assuming in order from slowest to fastest? Varget, IMR 4064, 748, Reloder 15, IMR 4320, AA 2460, AA 2520, IMR 4895, IMR 3031, BL -C(2) IMR 4895, H4895, and IMR 4064 seem to be mentioned alot for the AR 308 on forums I have read, as well as in either the Speer or Lyman manual (forget which). My noob question is if these are all acceptable, is it just flip a coin and pick one? Is there any of those to stay away from? Note I WILL be starting from the minimum as recommended per manuals and I doubt I will go anywhere near the max load, just to make myself feel safer. Also, my manuals say to start low and 'work up'. Is there a common increment in which to 'work up'? My manuals dont give any info on amounts. Sorry to ask such a lengthy question but all this new info has my brain swollen

January 7, 2015, 05:29 AM	#2
MadDawg Member Join Date: December 27, 2014 Posts: 51	Continue gathering data. Look for other load data too.. One that I use, and that applies, is http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ .. Work up the type of loads that you would want to start with- and see what other powders are available. Then take the lists down to your local supplier of powder if you can find one & note the prices. I say this because your cheapest supplier of powder might be the local supplier because you aren't paying the hazmat/shipping charges per container like if you buy online. I assume that you will be shooting about 150 grain bullets. I say that Hodgdon applies- it applies to me because the supplier here uses Hodgdon/IMR and thus getting a pound [of gunpowder] here is cheaper than getting a pound online and paying shipping/hazmat fees. Find out what your local supplier carries... Primers are also similar with respect to hazmat/shipping charges. Also note that some powders are supposedly temperature sensitive; it may or may not affect you ; I don't plan on playing the hot end for .308 either. Personally, I'd finish the AR, get some decent ammo to put thru it to break it in and verify its functionality, and then start worrying about reloading from that point. I'd start with about 500 rounds.. Shoot some first, then start reloading while keeping some manufactured stuff "ready"... Some of the loads in the Speer manual are marked with an asterisk noting that that load was with a magnum primer. My understanding so far suggests increments of about 1/2 a grain. Like you, I am not sure whether substituting regular primers for the magnums have anything I should also account for; but then I might just go down and pick up some magnum primers and be done with it. Here's another reference to peruse ; http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/308win/ Maybe re-read it a time or two.

January 7, 2015, 07:25 AM	#4
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,696	The Lyman manual I have has many work ups and they say which powder was best for accuracy.

January 7, 2015, 07:35 AM	#6
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Yes, the ABCs of Reloading is a very good book. That's what I started with and reloaded my first rounds using that book, along with manual, before I found a mentor.

January 7, 2015, 07:39 AM	#7
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,696	Ok back to what I was saying. In the Lyman's Handbook 44th edition there is a chart that shows powders and grain bullets. Then under there is a selection called Accuracy Load and Factory duplication. As an example for the 308 and 150 grain projectile The accuracy load shows the use of 44 grains of IMR3031 powder reporting at 2824 feet per second. The Factory duplication load is 42.4 grains of IMR 3031 at 2785 Feet per second. But that still means that you should work up what works best for you.

January 7, 2015, 09:11 AM	#8
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	You need to pay particular attention to the powders that require magnum primers and make sure that you use magnum primers with those powders. Hangfires are not fun and you can have a hang fire 30 seconds after you pull the trigger so it is better to avoid one by not goofing up and priming with the wrong primer. I load for a .308 bolt and I had a bunch meaning several hundred cartridges primed and I found out that the powder that I had chosen to use required magnum primers once the weight got above 46 grains. I was lucky to find enough of another powder to load those cases and for the rest loaded magnum primers. You will find that for a .308 ther are alot more powders available then the few that you listed. Being able to switch back and forth and not be stuck to using one or two powders is a good thing.

January 7, 2015, 10:36 AM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,825	When I'm thinking AR loading, im thinking volume loading. I would avoid 100% charge density...to avoid spills. I would look for ball powders for ease of metering. I, for some reason, prefer Hodgdon family for rifle. Then I read any powder profile articles or posts I can find. Last, I look for high pressure(cycling), low charge weights for max load(economy) and price/availability.

January 7, 2015, 11:14 AM	#11
trapper9260 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 119	I have a DPMS 308LR that I load cast and jacket with and I use IMR4064 it works the best in this gun.I do not use mag primers in my gun there is no need for it for what works for me.Also the mag primers are more then the standard.If you had more then one powder that is listed on the data then I would say make some test loads and see what one works the best in your gun.The first thing on a semi auto is to make sure you have the gun to cycle and then go from there.If you have any thing you like to ask just me just PM.As for the places around you check if any of the stores can order for you.the supplies you want.I have a gunsmith here that dose that for me if I do not want to go for a long ride.If there is a gunsmith near you see if they can help you also and see if they are able to help you and get some of what you need.

January 7, 2015, 11:32 AM	#12
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2014 Posts: 868	You are on the right track. What I look for is case capacity near 100%. Having a air space floating around in the case can't help accuracy. Also look for a powder with pressure on the lower side compared to other choices. That's my opinion. Good luck and keep us tuned.