Sizing issue ?????

[krag1899]

I loaded up a batch of 44 magnums with 23.5g of IMR4227 powder and a 240g SJFN bullet to try for accuracy. Got to the range and tried to chamber the rounds and nary a one who fit in the chamber of my Marlin 1894 44mag rifle. Bullets were seated to the cannalure and looked real good. I about 99% sure I ran all of these through my RCBS sizing die first. Maybe I didn't do it properly. I put the sizing die in the press and ran the shell holder up just under the bottom of the die and then backed it off about a half turn. Reloads started into the chamber but got stuck about midway up the bullet. Using RCBS carbide die set. Any suggestions ?

[Unclenick]

One of several things is happening:

1. You have been firing .44 Special loads and lead and fouling have built up between the end of the shorter case and the start of the throat, preventing complete chambering of a .44 Magnum round. In this case, the chambers need cleaning.
   
   
2. You have been firing low pressure loads that fail to expand the case and seal the chamber so fouling has flowed around the case and built up in the chamber. In this case, the chambers need cleaning.
   
   
3. Your finished rounds are too wide. 0.460" at the case mouth and 0.461" just behind the mouth, and 0.4569" near the head are the SAAMI maximums. The .44 Mag chamber (scroll down that same drawing) is slightly tapered to facilitate extraction and ejection, so the fat cartridge goes in until the taper gets too narrow for it, then it stops. In that case, you need narrower cartridges.
   
   Wide cartridges can be due to oversize bullets (measure to check). They can be due to brass that's too thick (least likely). And they can be due to overly aggressive crimping that causes the case to bulge out just below the crimp. This is most likely, and your diameter measurements as compared to the SAAMI drawing should tell you if that's happening.

[madmo44mag]

I never loaded for a rifle in 44 mag but did so for a 357 mag rilfe and I over crimped the bullet.
I put a heavy roll crimp on the bullet and that prevented the round from clambering.
They fit fine in a revolver cyl but would not go into battery in the rifle.

[krag1899]

Unclenick,

#1 and #2 are definitely out so we'll have to go with #3. I will mic them when I get home from work and see where they measure. I thought the crimp was pretty liberal. Unfortunately I don't have a second 44mag to try them in.

[mehavey]

ISOLATE THE PROBLEM:

1. Will the sized/but-not-yet-loaded cases chamber?
...(If they will, proceed to step 2. If not, fully resize and try again)

2. Will the loaded/seated (but NOT CRIMPED cartridges chamber?
...(If they will, go to crimping in a separate step and/or make sure
...crimping doesn't start before crimp groove clears the case mouth.)

[Barnacle Brad]

Unclenick, can these he fixed by running them partially into the sizer die (decapping pin removed)?

[Unclenick]

Brad,

Not with the bullet in their. It'll make the case too wide. This is, however, what the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die was designed to do. That die has a carbide ring that is bigger than a sizing die ring, but small enough to keep a round within factory spec. So it would iron out a crimp bulge.


krag1899,

A good option, IMHO, if you want to crimp hard but avoid creating that bulge, is to get the Redding Profile Crimp Die. It holds the sides in while applying the crimp. That's better than ironing it out afterward, as the ironing job can loosen the crimp some.

[Hummer70]

If you have 30-40 Krag dies you could remove decap rod and just ease the loaded round in very lightly and taper the case mouth area as the 30-40 case is .457 or a 303 Brit die.

As well some case trim dies offer the reloader with possibilities not normally thought of. I have also used them for forming wildcat cases going from one case taper and or shoulder angle to another.

It won't take much to get you there.

[F. Guffey]

I am the fan of standards and transfers, then there is that part where verifying comes in. I have new, factory over the counter never fired ammo. When I have a problem with a case not chambering I reach for the new ammo. Nothing like knowing what it should look like.

Then there is SAAMI. Not sure how someone could get to the range and then find the ammo will not chamber. I have gages,. I make gages, I have barrels, lots of barrels, barrels are gages.

F. Guffey

I have 45 ACPs that like new factory over the counter ammo, I have 2 that do not like reloads. They do not like bullets with bullet lines as in a case that looks like a short snake that swallowed a bullet. I have friends that informed me I did not know how to load for the 45 ACP. Not a problem, I met them at the range to shoot their reloads, same thing. 45 ACP ammo was offered to every shooter at the range with 45 ACPs, the ammo flew through all of them, not my 45s.

I left the range, sized the loaded ammo in a carbide full length sizer die to make the cases look like new, factory ammo. I returned to the range and fired all the ammo he gave me, the ammo flew through like it was new factory ammo. I did not full length the case, I sized enough of the case to remove the bullet line.

And, no, the bullets did not crush and loosen.

[mikld]

One thought for troubleshooting chambering problems; measure! If something doesn't fit where you want it to go, measure it. Measure the offending cartridges' diameter at the case mouth, mid way on the body and at the case head. With this info you'll have a direction to go to find the problem....

[PA-Joe]

There was something odd in the original post. To set the resizer you lower the handle and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder. Then you move the handle up and turn the die down 1/2 to 1 more turn (down not out).

[Sevens]

I have 45 ACPs that like new factory over the counter ammo, I have 2 that do not like reloads. They do not like bullets with bullet lines as in a case that looks like a short snake that swallowed a bullet. I have friends that informed me I did not know how to load for the 45 ACP. Not a problem, I met them at the range to shoot their reloads, same thing. 45 ACP ammo was offered to every shooter at the range with 45 ACPs, the ammo flew through all of them, not my 45s.

I left the range, sized the loaded ammo in a carbide full length sizer die to make the cases look like new, factory ammo. I returned to the range and fired all the ammo he gave me, the ammo flew through like it was new factory ammo. I did not full length the case, I sized enough of the case to remove the bullet line.

Guffey, I'm curious about your two .45s that are finicky. I've been handloading .45 Auto since 1992 and I've gotten better along the way and made many adjustments and used manymanyMANY different bulles to get to this point.

As it often happens (especially in handloading) that puts you in a great spot to learn something new... and find some kind of "failure" just about the time you thought you knew enough. In my case, it was a Sig Two-tone Match Elite 1911.

I had made ammo that ran great in Springers, Rugers, S&W's galore, and even made a Les Baer and an Ed Brown quite happy. Yet this new Sig 1911 wouldn't eat my ammo all the time.

So, I worked with it until I made ammo that the Sig 1911 liked also. And then I got rid of that pistol. And I'm a happier guy and (slightly) better handloader because of it.

[Snyper]

There was something odd in the original post. To set the resizer you lower the handle and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder. Then you move the handle up and turn the die down 1/2 to 1 more turn (down not out).

I was beginning to think I was the only one who noticed that, although I usually only go about 1/4 turn

[DaleA]

Dang good reading (and understanding) PA-Joe.

So, Krag1899, do you think that might be the problem?

[F. Guffey]

. I put the sizing die in the press and ran the shell holder up just under the bottom of the die and then backed it off about a half turn.

Krag1899 backed the die off the shell holder about 1/2 turn meaning he is not full length sizing the case. That is covered in response #2 under #3 of things that can go wrong. If he backed the die off 1/2 turn and verified the gap between the shell holder and die he could have had a gap of .0355".

He could have chambered the first size case, her could have seated a bullet without a primer, he could have saved himself a lot of time including a trip to the range. If I want to know what a 44 Remington Mag round should look like I open a drawer then remove one from a box.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Guffey, I'm curious about your two .45s that are finicky. I've been handloading .45 Auto since 1992 and I've gotten better along the way and made many adjustments and used manymanyMANY different bulles to get to this point.

The reloader that suggested I did not know how to reload for the 45 ACP, a very disciplined reloader, is also very observant. He suggested if the two pistols belong to him he would fix them, then he added, if accuracy is what you want I would leave them along.

The leaver policy came from his dad, I purchased the ugly rifle, I bid on and won it for $120.00. On the outside chance the builder knew what he was doing I took it to the range. I purchased the rifle for parts, but because of accuracy I applied 'the leaver policy' I left-er the way I found-er'.

Then there are other builds with slides and barrels of customs lengths, for one build there is only one reload. no more, no less.

F. Guffey

[Old Stony]

Before this thread gets completely morphed out of control, I would suggest maybe the whole problem lies in your sizing. From what you said about your die setup, you apparently didn't get the case sized far enough down to reduce the lower part to the proper dimension. If the cases were fired in a different chamber prior to your sizing, they could be still oversized.

[mehavey]

Again, see Post #5

[TimSr]

See post #5.

[Sport45]

The OP could also paint the entire cartridge with a magic marker before trying to chamber it. When it comes out it should be pretty obvious to see where it is binding.