Palma and non-Palma. Difference?

Pond, James Pond · July 25, 2014, 10:36 AM

I just did some window shopping on my component supplier's website and noticed that their Lapua brass in .308 had two prices. Palma brass was 40% more expensive and was also made to take small rifle primers.

Why is that?

jwrowland77 · July 25, 2014, 10:40 AM

I've been looking at those myself and researching and talking to other competitors.

The Lapua site says they give you better accuracy. However, after reading and talking to fellow competitors, not so much. Plus I've read there's issues using them in cold weather.

I had looked at getting them for the simple fact the CCI BR4's are easier to find than BR2's are.

Bart B. · July 25, 2014, 12:45 PM

Remington's .308 Win benchrest (BR) cases came out in the 1990's for shooting as is or resizing down to smaller calibers. Their small rifle primer pockets needed Rem. 7.5 primers to burn 45 grains of IMR4895 or Varget under Sierra's 155-gr. Palma bullet. They got mixed reviews with the Palma bullet, but heavier ones did quite well and set some records back then.

I've shot them several hundred times and they were almost as good as large rifle primer cases in cooler weather. I had one hangfire in 30F or 40F temperatures but anything above 65 and they did well. One year at the Nationals scoring a shooter on the 600 yard line, the guy shooting on the point next to me had those R-P BR .308 cases primed with Rem. 7.5 primers and stuffed with 48 grains of IMR4350 under Sierra 200-gr. HPMK bullets. He set a national record besides winning the match shooting all 20 shots into about 3.5 inches; with aperture sights at each end of his barreled action. 200-19X (X ring's 6" diameter). A month later when he shot the rifle again in a local match, the barrel went bad as it had finally wore out with the bore erosion finaly at its limit.

I think Lapua came out with them because enough people wanted them to make the tooling worthwhile for them. Here's a good writeup on those cases:

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...rimer-308.html

Contrary to Salazar's remarks on their uneven wall thickness, the 1990's lot of 600 or so I have are quite good in that area; 95% have .002" or less variation, the pressure ramp around their pressure ring area is uniform. But Remington's cases have typically not been as uniform in wall thickness as Western Cartridge or Winchester of all the makes I've used but they're better than arsenal brass. I'm thinking of selling mine; most are once-fired, a few twice and all have uniformed primer pockets.

jwrowland77 · July 25, 2014, 12:50 PM

I wonder if they'd do good necking them down to .243?

Bart B. · July 25, 2014, 01:02 PM

Yes, several people necked those BR cases down to .243 Win. when that cartridge became popular in high power match rifle competition. I think David Tubb used them for a while in the early '90's when he shot that cartridge in matches. I'd bet money they were also used to make Tubb's 6XC, 6.5x.308 (.260 Rem.) and 7-08 ones, too.

jwrowland77 · July 25, 2014, 01:04 PM

Was thinking about that for my daughter since the 6mm Lapua cases are expensive.

jwrowland77 · July 25, 2014, 01:09 PM

I'm getting her F-Class with me. So I can neck them down, turn the necks, and be able to find plenty of CCI BR primers for her.

I think a light bulb just went off. She won't be shooting in cold and wet like I do at first of year.

Clark · July 25, 2014, 03:02 PM

I bought Lapua 308 Palma brass in 2012, necked it down, turned the necks, and tried shooting it in 260 Rem at 80,000 psi without getting loose primer pockets. That was my plan anyway.

But the highest pressure small rifle primers I can find, CCI 450 magnum small rifle primers did not alway have enough power.

I wanted to break in barrels with CFE223 which is a ball powder with anti Copper fouling coating.

The primer will set off 40 gr, but will not set off 42 gr.
And the results at 40 gr are too erratic for target practice, but do break in the barrel.

What does it all mean?
Small primers that will work in 6mmBR may not work in 260.

Bart B. · July 25, 2014, 03:25 PM

Clark, try some Rem 7.5 primers or the Tulammo (Russian) ones.

jwrowland77 · July 25, 2014, 03:26 PM

I'm going to have to order some after I order my new trigger.

Then make my daughter some match ammo

Jimro · July 25, 2014, 04:09 PM

Clark, you consider adding a grain of Unique or other fast pistol powder to your mix as a kickstarter? You would have to redo your load workup, but that might be what you need to light off that much ball powder without fizzling.

Jimro

July 25, 2014, 10:36 AM	#1
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Palma and non-Palma. Difference? I just did some window shopping on my component supplier's website and noticed that their Lapua brass in .308 had two prices. Palma brass was 40% more expensive and was also made to take small rifle primers. Why is that?

July 25, 2014, 12:45 PM	#3
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Remington's .308 Win benchrest (BR) cases came out in the 1990's for shooting as is or resizing down to smaller calibers. Their small rifle primer pockets needed Rem. 7.5 primers to burn 45 grains of IMR4895 or Varget under Sierra's 155-gr. Palma bullet. They got mixed reviews with the Palma bullet, but heavier ones did quite well and set some records back then. I've shot them several hundred times and they were almost as good as large rifle primer cases in cooler weather. I had one hangfire in 30F or 40F temperatures but anything above 65 and they did well. One year at the Nationals scoring a shooter on the 600 yard line, the guy shooting on the point next to me had those R-P BR .308 cases primed with Rem. 7.5 primers and stuffed with 48 grains of IMR4350 under Sierra 200-gr. HPMK bullets. He set a national record besides winning the match shooting all 20 shots into about 3.5 inches; with aperture sights at each end of his barreled action. 200-19X (X ring's 6" diameter). A month later when he shot the rifle again in a local match, the barrel went bad as it had finally wore out with the bore erosion finaly at its limit. I think Lapua came out with them because enough people wanted them to make the tooling worthwhile for them. Here's a good writeup on those cases: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...rimer-308.html Contrary to Salazar's remarks on their uneven wall thickness, the 1990's lot of 600 or so I have are quite good in that area; 95% have .002" or less variation, the pressure ramp around their pressure ring area is uniform. But Remington's cases have typically not been as uniform in wall thickness as Western Cartridge or Winchester of all the makes I've used but they're better than arsenal brass. I'm thinking of selling mine; most are once-fired, a few twice and all have uniformed primer pockets. Last edited by Bart B.; July 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM.

July 25, 2014, 10:40 AM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I've been looking at those myself and researching and talking to other competitors. The Lapua site says they give you better accuracy. However, after reading and talking to fellow competitors, not so much. Plus I've read there's issues using them in cold weather. I had looked at getting them for the simple fact the CCI BR4's are easier to find than BR2's are.

July 25, 2014, 12:50 PM	#4
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I wonder if they'd do good necking them down to .243?

July 25, 2014, 01:02 PM	#5
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Yes, several people necked those BR cases down to .243 Win. when that cartridge became popular in high power match rifle competition. I think David Tubb used them for a while in the early '90's when he shot that cartridge in matches. I'd bet money they were also used to make Tubb's 6XC, 6.5x.308 (.260 Rem.) and 7-08 ones, too.

July 25, 2014, 01:04 PM	#6
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Was thinking about that for my daughter since the 6mm Lapua cases are expensive.

July 25, 2014, 01:09 PM	#7
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I'm getting her F-Class with me. So I can neck them down, turn the necks, and be able to find plenty of CCI BR primers for her. I think a light bulb just went off. She won't be shooting in cold and wet like I do at first of year.

July 25, 2014, 03:02 PM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I bought Lapua 308 Palma brass in 2012, necked it down, turned the necks, and tried shooting it in 260 Rem at 80,000 psi without getting loose primer pockets. That was my plan anyway. But the highest pressure small rifle primers I can find, CCI 450 magnum small rifle primers did not alway have enough power. I wanted to break in barrels with CFE223 which is a ball powder with anti Copper fouling coating. The primer will set off 40 gr, but will not set off 42 gr. And the results at 40 gr are too erratic for target practice, but do break in the barrel. What does it all mean? Small primers that will work in 6mmBR may not work in 260.

July 25, 2014, 03:25 PM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Clark, try some Rem 7.5 primers or the Tulammo (Russian) ones.

July 25, 2014, 03:26 PM	#10
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I'm going to have to order some after I order my new trigger. Then make my daughter some match ammo

July 25, 2014, 04:09 PM	#11
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Clark, you consider adding a grain of Unique or other fast pistol powder to your mix as a kickstarter? You would have to redo your load workup, but that might be what you need to light off that much ball powder without fizzling. Jimro