New High Standard issue - need advice (old gun)

[spacecoast]

First of all, I'm not a High Standard expert by any means, but I've been shooting my 1958-vintage Supermatic Trophy (6-7/8" bull barrel) in Bullseye (conventional pistol) matches for about 4 months now and have been working to cure some reliability issues. First, the extractor was not working 100% so I changed it out for the Volquartsen exact edge extractor (thicker and beefier overall) and that issue seems to be fixed. I was also having issues feeding Federal Automatch reliably (failure to completely go into battery) so on the advice of a fellow shooter I switched out the recoil spring with a 6-lb variable spring from Wolff, and also replaced the firing pin spring with the extra power model included by Wolff. Automatch (1200 fps) is a little hotter than standard velocity ammo, and while High Standard says that high velocity ammo is OK to use, I'm well aware of long term frame cracking issues with long term use of HV ammo, hence also my decision to use the 6-lb spring (vs. a 5.5 lb original spring).

In this morning's match, on about 4 rounds (out of 90), a fed round appeared to chamber completely but when I pulled the trigger nothing happened, indicating that the hammer was not cocked. No click, nothing.

Here's my question - when I got the 6 lb spring from Wolff, I also purchased a "standard" 5.5 lb replacement spring. Even though I'm still using Federal Automatch for now, if this gun were yours would you put the 5.5 lb spring in it to address the failure to fully cock issue? If not, what other action(s) would you take, or what else should I be checking? While I want to protect the gun's frame, reliability is of paramount importance in Bullseye as shooting "alibi" strings often results in a lower score.

One other twist - I bought two bricks of CCI SV ammo from Palmetto State Armory and hopefully that will be shipped this week. With this in mind, I'm leaning toward installing the "new" 5.5 lb spring and trying the the SV ammo.

[mete]

working on a gun can be a lot more than just replacing springs. Pick ammo that the gun likes which may not be what you like . That gun must be examined thoroughly . Cleaned ,in every corner , problems corrected, lightly lubed then test fired.
My experience with the early HS pistols is that while nicely designed and made the steel should have been harder .I compare with Browning for example . Look for hammering and wear of the parts .

[James K]

Assuming that there is not something else wrong, like failure of the sear, sear spring, or hammer notch, it is likely that the stiffer spring is either too strong and the slide is not being driven back far enough to cock the hammer, or the spring is going solid before the hammer cocks. The latter is easiest to test; simply see if the hammer cocks when the slide is operated manually.

If that test is passed, I would replace the spring with the lighter one. If that corrects the problem, I think you will be OK. I would suggest you do some experimenting with ammo; failure to go into battery is often caused by the bullet shape. I know that today saying "try different brands" would be something of a joke, but I see Remington-Eley match ammo around, and that would be a very good choice for trial.

Jim

[erob3]

Spacecoast - I have owned several HS for a few years now and I also shoot bullseye. The frame cracking is a real issue, I shoot ONLY ammo below 1100 FPS. Watch Champion Shooter Supply, I picked up 2 bricks of Eley Target last week for the same price as the CCI you just got from Palmetto..... I just got 2 bricks of CCI from them also!! I would put the 5.5lb spring in it and wait on the CCI, I don't believe I would continue to shoot the Federal Automatch. As to cleaning it there is no need to disassemble it beyond removing the barrell, slide, grips and parts under the grips. A couple of other thoughts; it is possible wear on the sear or hammer hook could be causing the hammer to follow the slide as it puts the shell into battery. However, with it only doing it on 4 out of 90 times that would seem unlikely. Also, you may want to check the trigger adjustment spring and make sure it is seated properly in slot of the adjustment screw. In order to do that you have to remove the barrell and slide. You should not have the adjustment screw turned out so far that it is not putting any pressure on the spring.... you want to have it adjusted at least one "click" in from it's most outer setting. One other thought is I'm sure you are aware of the Rimfire Central forum, they have a section dedicated to nothing but HS and those guys really know their stuff. If you do not already belong, join and give them a try as well. I hope that helps. Good Luck. Keep shootin' Bullseye!

[kdemers58]

I have had a high standard supermatic citation for 30 years and it has been a great bullseye shooter i have had a couple problems one was i bought a new mag just so i would have 2 the new one works some times i have tryed to fix it but no luck even went to the highstandard web site they have instructions on how to tune a new mag not much sucess. secound was ammo as some of the others have said i have the best luck with cci standard volicty but most other cci's wook well federall have been one of the worest for me ,one more little bulseye trick is a drop of very light gun oil on the 1st full mag of eack 30 round match helps a lot it helped my scores by lowering my handicaps been carring around 297 average the last 8 years telling you the gun shoots better than me . good luck try the ammo and see if you have a none original mag could be the problem.

[burrhead]

High Standards are very dependent on the feed lips of the mag being absolutely correct. There is a guy over at Rimfire Central that tunes HS mags for $15 shipped. His name is Steve Stafford but I forget his user name.. He fixed a mag for me and it has worked perfectly since. Do a search for him on the HS sub forum; he's a regular over there.

Hope this helps.

[spacecoast]

All -

Thanks for the tips on both the gun and ammo, I have several things to investigate/try. Looks like I'll be putting the standard spring in it and going with the SV ammo for the next go-round. If the CCI ammo doesn't come in soon, I also have 200 rounds of Remington SV ammo, old enough that it doesn't have a UPC code on the box.

Addendum -

My short Sunday afternoon gunsmithing session is over and the "new" 5.5-lb spring is in place. Somehow it was much easier the second time. In thinking some more about this, I believe the 6-lb spring was created to permit the shooting of HV ammo in the High Standard. While hotter than SV, Automatch is not quite up to HV speeds, so maybe that's why I was getting the occasional failure to fully cock to hammer. We'll see.

[spacecoast]

Really good results this morning (other than my score)...

The gun ran flawlessly with CCI SV ammo (delivered yesterday) and the standard weight spring from Wolff. 90 shots with zero glitches in the areas of feeding, ignition and extraction. I'm really happy to get the reliability issues resolved, now all I have to do is get some better trigger control.

[dgludwig]

High Standards are very dependent on the feed lips of the mag being absolutely correct.

This is very true; one reason being that most Hi-Standard pistols don't have conventional feed ramps common to other .22 semi-autos and rely mostly on the configuration of the magazine lips and follower to guide the cartridge accurately to the chamber.

[spacecoast]

Having tried a new Triple K mag, I can certainly agree, it never worked right but they took it back and issued a refund, including shipping.

I found my second mag on eBay, a genuine H-S that is nearly the twin of my original. I checked the feed lip dimensions and so far they are both working well.

[darkgael]

I also have 200 rounds of Remington SV ammo,

My .02....great that the gun is working for you. CCI SV has been my go to ammo for years in my Victor. I stopped using Remington rimfire ammo a long time ago because of reliability issues...too many FTFs.
Pete