Odd ?

[Double Impact]

Well I finely got some time get a little trigger time at a local range.

First let me say I would feel comfortable to carry and use 9mm,40S&W or 45 acp for self defense.


But anyway I asked at the range buy a couple of other younger shooters there.


Why do the navy Seals use the sig p226 in 9mm when they can use any caliber and brand of weapon they want?

My answer was hell if I know.


I carry a sig p220 just because I like 45 acp now I carry 1911's glocks and so on so it's not just because it's a sig for me. However I do really like the sig.

I thought it was a good question sense there is always so many caliber discussions. What works and what does not.

So if one of the most elite forces in existence today rely on 9mm why are so many civilians that carry are always saying how ineffective 9mm is for self defense?

And why do they not carry the perfection of glock instead of sig?


Remember don't rip me a new a-hole these are questions asked to me.

[RickB]

I'm with you. I find SIG to be an odd choice for a group that can allegedly use whatever they want. SIG's are all-metal, "old" technology. They use a DA/SA trigger system that almost nobody even makes, let alone uses, anymore. The boreline is quite high, especially for a small-diameter round. There are multiple controls clustered around one side of the pistol, when a lot of designs have one or two.
I think advancements in ammo are making a lot of people reconsider the 9mm, especially compared to .40. The whole point of .40 was compromise. Capacity fans don't have to give up a lot of it, and bullet mass fans didn't have to give up a lot of that. Now, I think you can have your cake and eat it too, with 9mm.
Me, I'll still carry a 7-shot .45.

[Vireye]

I imagine that a lot of it has to do with previous testing.

IIRC in the trials to determine the official sidearm for the military, the P226 actually scored marginally higher than the Beretta except for one factor: Cost. Hence, we have the M9 issued to us.

So the P226 has proven reliability as shown by prior military testing. 9mm may simply be because it's a readily available round just about anywhere you go, especially in NATO countries, so resupply and ordering ammunition is a heckuva easier to do through official channels than say, 40 S&W or even .45 ACP nowadays.


CAVEAT: I don't work in supply, nor am I a SEAL, so this is speculation. I'm Army, I stay away from water when I can help it!

Also I'm not sure you can say almost nobody uses or makes the SA/DA system when right off the bat most SIG, Beretta, HK, etc have it as a standard setup or a popular option.

And remember, being able to use a multitude of firearms means that the P226 may be the "official" sidearm, but they may not all use them.

The Beretta M9 is the "official" sidearm of the Army, but there are still units that use the M11 (SIG P228) and even a few that have Glock 17's.

[Isk]

The Seals aren't the only elite units using 9mm. I think the British SAS still do as well. I'm obviously speculating here as I have no knowledge of these types of things, but it might have something to do with capacity. These guys run in teams and the use of suppressive fire, even from a handgun, might be a consideration in the choice of sidearm in close quarters.

[Chaz88]

They can reportedly use whatever they want. But 9mm is probably more practical than whatever they would like to have. You can only take so much ammunition and gear into combat. The Seals often go places where logistic support is little or nothing. 9mm can be found just about anyplace they are likely to engage.

[44 AMP]

There are multiple controls clustered around one side of the pistol, when a lot of designs have one or two.

Lets see, slide release, decocking lever, and do you count the magazine release as #3? Wow, 3....

MOST designs have 3 "controls" on one side of the gun, if you count them, slide release, safety/decocking lever, and magazine release.

Some have only two, on one side, like those which use the trigger tab activation switch and call it a safety.

Also, the Luger has only two on the side, there being no slide release. Early model SIG P220s have only two on the side, as they use a heel type mag catch.

The Mauser HSc and guns like it have only ONE control on the side, having both a heel type mag and no slide release.

Personally, I don't think 3 is too many, since one only operates one at a time.

Also, when an elite military unit is said to be able to use "whatever they want", remember that it is NOT a matter of individual choice. It is the choice of the commanders, and while they may poll their troops to see what the overall majority want, each guy doesn't get to carry their personal favorite.

[RickB]

Isn't there also a prominent take-down lever; four? Maybe it's good to have all the controls clustered in one place, it's just not that common; any others?

[44 AMP]

I deliberately discount the take down lever as a "control". It has no function in the operation of the gun.

it is only used when cleaning.

Yes, its on the side of the gun, but that's the only similarity to me.

[wogpotter]

How about ammunition interchangeability with the 9mm subguns, that would strike me as being a good idea if you're doing SpecWar stuff instead of popping paper at a range.

[SHE3PDOG]

It is probably because the mk25 is cheaper than the mk23, and 9mm ammo is cheaper than 45 acp.

[Corrections Cop]

I would trust my 226 9mm with my life. It runs what ever I have put through it, and I don't ever remember it jamming or FTF. I also shoot glocks for my Dept but I will always pick my sig over a glock!

[dgludwig]

They use a DA/SA trigger system that almost nobody even makes, let alone uses, anymore.

Lots of pistols are still being made in this configuration and many people (certainly I do) prefer a da/sa action for serious self-defense use.

[chris in va]

Think about this. A handgun...in the Navy. Not a top priority as it probably won't get used much.

9mm is a NATO round and can be found worldwide. 40, 45...not so much.

[Corrections Cop]

I would tend to believe that the Navy SEALS use hand guns a lot.

[Guv]

To chose one of the finest pistols made? I'll take a good metal frame pistol over plastic one any day, any time. If you can't master the controls on a Sig then I don't know what to tell you. Also I don't think you want to end up in some off the map place with a caliber that is impossible to find.

[bamaranger]

Seems like I read somewhere that the Seals, specifically Team 6, who do a lot of shooting, broke a few early issue , and some guys got hurt with flying pieces in the process. They went with Sig at that point.

Why Sig, and not Glock I can't say. But....Sig was on board with a lot of US agencies early on in the wondernine years, before Glock sort of broke into the market. Many US LE agencies that started with SIG, 20 years ago, have moved to Glock.

I expect the high speed low drag Teams have a wide latitude in what they employ.

[44 AMP]

Many US LE agencies that started with SIG, 20 years ago, have moved to Glock.

And that's because of GLock's marketing, more than the claimed "perfection" of their product. When they were attacking the US LE market, they did so with efficiency. Their gun was priced competitively, AND they offered a credit for the guns the agency was replacing.

ANY reasonably acceptable gun, with a deal like that, would shine in the eyes of the (always) budget conscious agencies.

You might also note that "Many US LE agencies" that went to the GLock have since gone on to another gun. Possibly because GLock no longer offers such a sweetheart deal.

[bamaranger]

Yeah, everybody except my outfit. We still have SIGS, and probably will till the rest of the world is carrying laser pistols!

[MandolinMan]

I personally think its a fine choice.

With regards to caliber, 9mm ammo is readily available worldwide and proven adequate for combat.

With regards to weapon selection, the Sig has proven itself as being up to the task and as reliable, durable and accurate as any.

SIG's are all-metal, "old" technology. They use a DA/SA trigger system that almost nobody even makes, let alone uses, anymore. The boreline is quite high, especially for a small-diameter round.

RickB post #2

Not to be argumentative, but I beg to differ. The classic P series Sigs are no more "old technology" than the HI Power, 1911 or a revolver.

The double action trigger system takes practice to master which I believe turns many people off from it.

The high bore axis may be a legitimate complaint in the short barreled Sig's chambered in .40 or .357 sig, but likely not a problem for most people in the full sized variants in these calibers and especially not a problem when chambered in 9mm.

It seems the higher bore axis of the Sig is more than compensated by its increased weight over a Glock for example.

Understand this is only my opinion. Take it for what its worth. Oh, and I'm not really a Sig fan. I don't even own one.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Double Impact

...Why do the navy Seals use the sig p226 in 9mm when they can use any caliber and brand of weapon they want?...

One thing to remember when considering that question is that for a SEAL the handgun is a secondary weapon. His primary weapon will be some type of long gun.

[ritepath]

I bet most Navy Seals figure out the old technology sig controls easily enough.



But what do I know some of my plastic pistols have a manual safety....tough.

[WVsig]

One thing to remember when considering that question is that for a SEAL the handgun is a secondary weapon. His primary weapon will be some type of long gun.

Winner winner chicken dinner....

When I asked my brother the former Marine who saw combat in Iraq what he thought of the M9 he said I don't really think about it much at all. If I have to go to it to save my life a whole lot of [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] has gone wrong. If well all do our jobs right it is never going to come out of its holster.

[jmr40]

I'd recommend reading the book "No Easy Day" by Mark Owen to get some idea into gear and weapons used by SEALS. Owen is the pen name for Matt Bissonnette, who participated in the raid that killed OBL. Only a relatively small part of the book actually deals with the raid, with a large portion detailing some of the training and equipment they use. I'm sure many things were left out, or possibly even some mis-information was included but a good book none the less.

He points out that the SEALS can basically use ANY gun they choose to use. They have the freedom to choose what they feel is best for the mission. Same with clothing and other gear. They use a lot of non standard civilian gear because it is better. Some guns, such as the 226 are issued, but he had others to choose from. If there is something non issue that he wanted, he could request it. Even have military gunsmiths customize it.

Each team member has their own walk in storage locker filled with their own individual weapons and other gear. They pick and choose depending on the mission. Bissonnette was also on the team that freed Captian Phillips from the Somali pirates. The gear and weapons chosen for that mission were far different than what he chose to use on missions in Iraq and Afghanastan.

Many, maybe even most choose not to carry a handgun. I've read from several sources that most would readily choose 1-2 more magazines for their long guns over the extra weight of a handgun.

[Harvey]

If we look hard, we'd find that the decision to go with SIG P226 had less to do with armor and ballistics than with the politics of military procurement. Follow the money. Follow the votes.

[PatientWolf]

If the number of controls on the same side of the pistol are a problem for you, you certainly should not consider the P226.

Personally, I'm pretty confident and comfortable that the Seals can operate the weapon with no difficulty at all, in fact with more than a level of "competence".

Also, I thank them for their service.