Guns in Literature

Minnesota Joe · January 21, 2014, 02:41 PM

I'm doing some research on the subject. I'm seeking references in fictional literature to specific, real-world, firearms used by characters. I'm talking books -- not movies. As most firearms owners know, there aren't a lot of authors who seem to know a lot about firearms. Even fewer identify their characters using specific guns, instead opting to refer only in the vaguest of terms to a revolver, rifle, or shotgun. Rarely is the make, model, or even calibre identified. So, can anyone out there cite specific references in fictional literature wherein the author went the extra distance to identify their character's weapon of choice?

Brian Pfleuger · January 21, 2014, 03:07 PM

I'm no literary expert but there have been quite a number of such references discussed on this forum over the years. Overall, I come away with the impression that most authors are doing themselves a favor by being vague. A great many of the "specifics" are specifically incorrect.

BarryLee · January 21, 2014, 03:25 PM

I think Stephen Hunter and Tom Clancy have done pretty decent.

ClydeFrog · January 21, 2014, 03:38 PM

There are a few novel writers & authors who are not quite "gun experts".

One novel I read(from a top selling author with a legal background) had a PI character using a Glock pistol, in the late 1970s,

.

As for gun-savvy writers Id offer; Richard Marcinko, John Wiseman, Steven Hunter(Point of Impact, Soft Target), David Merell(check spelling).
Merell wrote First Blood. He created the John J Rambo character.

I may think of a few more later.
Clyde

Bezoar · January 21, 2014, 07:06 PM

alot of it is all junk. Sure some have some idea but the general problem is...

to many are using wikipedia and websites built for role playing games.
As a result alot of interesting guns have been created.

For example, one series of books sold at walmart crappy book section feature a 1867 cowboy using a peacemaker with grip safety. a frontiersman circa 1840 using what can only be a semi automatic singleshot muzzleloading flintlock..

kilimanjaro · January 21, 2014, 07:17 PM

Len Deighton and Adam Hall seemed to use correct terms and identification consistently, in their spy novels.

Mickey Spillane made sure we knew what Mike Hammer carried.

You did say 'literature', right?

ClydeFrog · January 21, 2014, 07:37 PM

I believe Spillane was a real WWII combat veteran. He knew what a 1911a1 .45acp was.

According to the stories, PI Mike Hammer took "Betsy" home with him after the war since it saved his life so many times.

cannonfire · January 21, 2014, 08:50 PM

In Alex Berenson's "The Faithful Spy" series, his character John Wells has an undying trust and faith in his Makarov

Rob228 · January 21, 2014, 09:49 PM

Tom Clancy had it for a bit, but in Rainbow Six when he said that the operators rarely trained on the range with their primary weapons because the UMP 10 was so easy to shoot that anyone could if they weren't blind.... I decided that he'd better just stick to submarines.

Againstthewind · January 21, 2014, 10:04 PM

I like William Johnstone novels. It seems like he did quite a bit of research in some of his books to get historical facts correct. There is a lot of gun play in most of his books, but I haven't really looked to see how specific or accurate the descriptions are. The preacher series is a good place to look I would say.

**44 AMP** · January 22, 2014, 12:53 AM

Quote:

cite specific references in fictional literature wherein the author went the extra distance to identify their character's weapon of choice?

Unintended Consequences - John Ross
If you haven't read this one, you really, really should, ASAP

The Survivalist (series) -Jerry Ahern
(JTR carried a pair of Detonics Combat Masters in Alessi shoulder holsters, with a Milt Sparks 6 pack....)

You didn't say classic, or well known literature...

And then there is also The Executioner (series) -Don Pendelton

The author goes to great lengths to identify weapons used. He just doesn't get the use right, sometimes...

In more classic lit, the gun used to kill Miles Archer in the Maltese Falcon -Dashiel Hammet, is specifically identified as a .45 caliber Webley Fosberry....

I believe True Grit identifies the Walker Colt and Sharps rifle by name...
I'm sure there are many others...

Sierra280 · January 22, 2014, 01:29 AM

I think Ian Fleming had a character who always carried a Walther PPK

DaleA · January 22, 2014, 02:46 AM

Right here in MN John Sandford (real name John Camp) had his hero Lucus Davenport carry an HK P7 squeeze cocker in several of his early books but he moved on to carry different firearms in later books so maybe that doesn't count.

Sandford took some flak once for having a character snap the safety off his Glock but Sandford has a Glock with a safety on it. They were made for some foreign countries and 3rd party after market saftey kits are available in the US.

I believe he used to shoot with some of the police officers when he worked as a reporter in St. Paul.

Shrug. If he did make a mistake or two his books are, IMhO, very much worth reading.

ClydeFrog · January 22, 2014, 12:52 PM

I wasn't a big fan of author Don Pendelton's Executioner series.

In a novel I read, he made a few insulting remarks about MPs(military police).

In the 1970s/1980s/1990s(pre-internet) action novels & paperbacks were more common. In the federal agency I worked for briefly, many of the 083 police officers read adventure/action novels or westerns.

Former SEAL officer Richard Marcinko's novels with author John Wiseman were fast-paced & very detailed. They explained weapons & tradecraft too.

Clyde

SPEMack618 · January 22, 2014, 01:02 PM

The only reason I slogged through the Executioner series was because Mack Bolan and I share a Christian name.

Stephen Hunter is the author who really gets it, in my opinion.

Clancy does okay, but should stick to submarines and geo-political intrigue. That being said, he does like the 10mm, so got to give him credit there.

Unintended Consequenses is a fun read, especially concerning big bore rifles and small crew served cannons, but as I've learned here, John Ross takes a liberty or two with history. And I could do without all the gratuitous sex.

WEB Griffin is pretty good, but has the most annoying little screw ups, like refering to an M-4A1 as a Car-4, or the CAR-15 of Vietnam era usage as the CAR-16. And the FN-FAL as a 7mm FAL. Just irksome.

**Mike Irwin** · January 22, 2014, 01:12 PM

Stephen King occasionally makes references to firearms (in his non-Gunslinger books), and almost always they have been incoherently wrong...

**44 AMP** · January 22, 2014, 02:26 PM

As I understand the question, its about literature (books) where the author identifies the guns being used specifically. Not about whether the author get it right, or whether the work is a paragon of literary value or complete trash...

Ian Fleming's Bond series is iconic for identifying certain guns, and legendary (in the gun community, at least) for not getting things quite "right"....

Some authors take the approach of what might a real character use, and be able to do with it. Others don't. That may be ignorance on their part, or they might claim literary license.

One (bad) author of action novels (don't recall the name anymore) knew all right names for things but when he used them, it was like he just put them all in a hat and picked a "gun term" when he needed one.

I found the Executioner series back in the early 70s, when I was still riding my bicycle 11 miles to get to a bookstore. And I freely admit what attracted me at first was the Auto Mag on the cover. Soon after I began reading them I realized that while the author knew names and data, he didn't know real shooting, or Mack Bolan was superhuman.

A 600yd shot, from a boat on lake Michigan, with a .460 Weatherby with a 20x scope ("riding out the recoil" so he never loses sight of the target) taking a golf ball off the tee as the mob boss makes his backswing? Really?

Well, it is fiction...after all...

mcb66 · January 22, 2014, 02:39 PM

Lee Child in his Jack Reacher series tends to pretty descriptive with his weapons.

ClydeFrog · January 22, 2014, 06:59 PM

Both "Lee Child" & "WEB Griffin" are pen names.

I've read novels from both writers. As a former MP(four years, active duty, US Army) I think the "Jack Reacher" character has many flaws & errors but it's only fiction.

I enjoyed WEB Griffin's great The Presidents Agent line. Most of the action & weapons/armory points were well done.
Griffin was way off on a few guns. He described a S&W model 27 as a ".44magnum". Any gunner or casual shooter could tell you the difference between a .357magnum & a .44.
He also had the character(a ex-US secret service agent) using the S&W revolver for defense in a major urban area. In the modern era, most veterans or ex-cops would use a semi-auto pistol or a compact version of what they were trained with. Even if Griffin wanted to bring up a good carry revolver, the K frame .357magnum with a 2.5" barrel was around for decades.

He also mentions Uzi SMGs when, in reality I doubt any working EP agent or bodyguard(outside of Israel maybe) would still be carrying a Uzi sub-gun.
A HK MP5/MP5K, P90 5.7mm, SIG Sauer MPX, etc would be common today.

Tom68 · January 23, 2014, 10:59 AM

I can't believe nobody thus far has mentioned Earnest Hemingway...

MikeNice81 · January 23, 2014, 12:01 PM

I can't believe everybody has skipped over Larry Correia. The man was a gun dealer, instructor, competitor, and wrote for magazines like SWAT. Some of the writing in his novels borders on gun ****. He gets it right most of the time unless he stretches it for literary effect.

He also wrote one of my favorite gun control articles.
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/

Check out his Monster Hunter series or the book Dead Six. Dead Six was actually coauthored with an active duty member of the military. (Not a POG, if I remember correctly.)

SPEMack618 · January 23, 2014, 12:56 PM

King's Solomon's Mine qualifies as both literature and a gun book.

I had to read it in high school and barely finished, in fact I skimmed just enough to make a C or so on the exam.

However, I re-read it over AT after bumming it from a buddy and it was really enjoyable the second time around.

Lot's of talk of elephant hunting.

DaleA · January 23, 2014, 03:40 PM

Patrick F. McManus’s Sheriff Bo Tully carried a .45 ACP Colt Commander.

Patrick F. McManus handles firearms quite well in his books. He was a columnist for ‘Field and Stream’ and ‘Outdoor Life’. Some writers don’t handle guns at all well and even if they get the terminology right the gun stuff seems labored and clumsy in their books. Patrick McManus tosses gun references in his books that seem natural and effortless.

ClydeFrog · January 23, 2014, 08:45 PM

My grandparents kept several McManus novels in the camp.

These were his humor books that he wrote in the 1970s/1980s.
He told some funny stories about the woods & hunting.

In 2012, I was in AK briefly & saw a McManus novel in a bar/hotel. Good stuff.

Bezoar · January 23, 2014, 09:10 PM

knowing how many rounds a specific rifles holds in a specific caliber is good. Writing a paragraph about capacity, finish, how the gun works, every time the charecter picks it up is not good writing.

for example, its like a movie that shows a 3 minute gun commercial for glock every time the gun appears on screen. matrix series would be 3 times as long.

January 21, 2014, 02:41 PM	#1
Minnesota Joe Junior Member Join Date: January 19, 2014 Posts: 1	Guns in Literature I'm doing some research on the subject. I'm seeking references in fictional literature to specific, real-world, firearms used by characters. I'm talking books -- not movies. As most firearms owners know, there aren't a lot of authors who seem to know a lot about firearms. Even fewer identify their characters using specific guns, instead opting to refer only in the vaguest of terms to a revolver, rifle, or shotgun. Rarely is the make, model, or even calibre identified. So, can anyone out there cite specific references in fictional literature wherein the author went the extra distance to identify their character's weapon of choice?

January 21, 2014, 03:07 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,694	I'm no literary expert but there have been quite a number of such references discussed on this forum over the years. Overall, I come away with the impression that most authors are doing themselves a favor by being vague. A great many of the "specifics" are specifically incorrect. __________________ https://ecommercearms.com I am the owner/operator! Ask me for custom prices! No sales tax outside CO!

January 21, 2014, 03:25 PM	#3
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,965	I think Stephen Hunter and Tom Clancy have done pretty decent. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 21, 2014, 03:38 PM	#4
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Authors.... There are a few novel writers & authors who are not quite "gun experts". One novel I read(from a top selling author with a legal background) had a PI character using a Glock pistol, in the late 1970s, . As for gun-savvy writers Id offer; Richard Marcinko, John Wiseman, Steven Hunter(Point of Impact, Soft Target), David Merell(check spelling). Merell wrote First Blood. He created the John J Rambo character. I may think of a few more later. Clyde

January 21, 2014, 07:37 PM	#7
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Spillane... I believe Spillane was a real WWII combat veteran. He knew what a 1911a1 .45acp was. According to the stories, PI Mike Hammer took "Betsy" home with him after the war since it saved his life so many times.

January 21, 2014, 07:06 PM	#5
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	alot of it is all junk. Sure some have some idea but the general problem is... to many are using wikipedia and websites built for role playing games. As a result alot of interesting guns have been created. For example, one series of books sold at walmart crappy book section feature a 1867 cowboy using a peacemaker with grip safety. a frontiersman circa 1840 using what can only be a semi automatic singleshot muzzleloading flintlock..

January 21, 2014, 07:17 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Len Deighton and Adam Hall seemed to use correct terms and identification consistently, in their spy novels. Mickey Spillane made sure we knew what Mike Hammer carried. You did say 'literature', right?

January 21, 2014, 08:50 PM	#8
cannonfire Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 556	In Alex Berenson's "The Faithful Spy" series, his character John Wells has an undying trust and faith in his Makarov

January 21, 2014, 09:49 PM	#9
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	Tom Clancy had it for a bit, but in Rainbow Six when he said that the operators rarely trained on the range with their primary weapons because the UMP 10 was so easy to shoot that anyone could if they weren't blind.... I decided that he'd better just stick to submarines.

January 21, 2014, 10:04 PM	#10
Againstthewind Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Posts: 60	Old West I like William Johnstone novels. It seems like he did quite a bit of research in some of his books to get historical facts correct. There is a lot of gun play in most of his books, but I haven't really looked to see how specific or accurate the descriptions are. The preacher series is a good place to look I would say.

January 22, 2014, 01:29 AM	#12
Sierra280 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 569	I think Ian Fleming had a character who always carried a Walther PPK

January 22, 2014, 02:46 AM	#13
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,384	Right here in MN John Sandford (real name John Camp) had his hero Lucus Davenport carry an HK P7 squeeze cocker in several of his early books but he moved on to carry different firearms in later books so maybe that doesn't count. Sandford took some flak once for having a character snap the safety off his Glock but Sandford has a Glock with a safety on it. They were made for some foreign countries and 3rd party after market saftey kits are available in the US. I believe he used to shoot with some of the police officers when he worked as a reporter in St. Paul. Shrug. If he did make a mistake or two his books are, IMhO, very much worth reading.

January 22, 2014, 12:52 PM	#14
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Pendleton.... I wasn't a big fan of author Don Pendelton's Executioner series. In a novel I read, he made a few insulting remarks about MPs(military police). In the 1970s/1980s/1990s(pre-internet) action novels & paperbacks were more common. In the federal agency I worked for briefly, many of the 083 police officers read adventure/action novels or westerns. Former SEAL officer Richard Marcinko's novels with author John Wiseman were fast-paced & very detailed. They explained weapons & tradecraft too. Clyde

January 22, 2014, 01:02 PM	#15
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	The only reason I slogged through the Executioner series was because Mack Bolan and I share a Christian name. Stephen Hunter is the author who really gets it, in my opinion. Clancy does okay, but should stick to submarines and geo-political intrigue. That being said, he does like the 10mm, so got to give him credit there. Unintended Consequenses is a fun read, especially concerning big bore rifles and small crew served cannons, but as I've learned here, John Ross takes a liberty or two with history. And I could do without all the gratuitous sex. WEB Griffin is pretty good, but has the most annoying little screw ups, like refering to an M-4A1 as a Car-4, or the CAR-15 of Vietnam era usage as the CAR-16. And the FN-FAL as a 7mm FAL. Just irksome. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

January 22, 2014, 01:12 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Stephen King occasionally makes references to firearms (in his non-Gunslinger books), and almost always they have been incoherently wrong... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 22, 2014, 02:26 PM	#17
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,484	As I understand the question, its about literature (books) where the author identifies the guns being used specifically. Not about whether the author get it right, or whether the work is a paragon of literary value or complete trash... Ian Fleming's Bond series is iconic for identifying certain guns, and legendary (in the gun community, at least) for not getting things quite "right".... Some authors take the approach of what might a real character use, and be able to do with it. Others don't. That may be ignorance on their part, or they might claim literary license. One (bad) author of action novels (don't recall the name anymore) knew all right names for things but when he used them, it was like he just put them all in a hat and picked a "gun term" when he needed one. I found the Executioner series back in the early 70s, when I was still riding my bicycle 11 miles to get to a bookstore. And I freely admit what attracted me at first was the Auto Mag on the cover. Soon after I began reading them I realized that while the author knew names and data, he didn't know real shooting, or Mack Bolan was superhuman. A 600yd shot, from a boat on lake Michigan, with a .460 Weatherby with a 20x scope ("riding out the recoil" so he never loses sight of the target) taking a golf ball off the tee as the mob boss makes his backswing? Really? Well, it is fiction...after all... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 22, 2014, 02:39 PM	#18
mcb66 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 117	Lee Child in his Jack Reacher series tends to pretty descriptive with his weapons.

January 22, 2014, 06:59 PM	#19
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Lee Child, WEB Griffin.... Both "Lee Child" & "WEB Griffin" are pen names. I've read novels from both writers. As a former MP(four years, active duty, US Army) I think the "Jack Reacher" character has many flaws & errors but it's only fiction. I enjoyed WEB Griffin's great The Presidents Agent line. Most of the action & weapons/armory points were well done. Griffin was way off on a few guns. He described a S&W model 27 as a ".44magnum". Any gunner or casual shooter could tell you the difference between a .357magnum & a .44. He also had the character(a ex-US secret service agent) using the S&W revolver for defense in a major urban area. In the modern era, most veterans or ex-cops would use a semi-auto pistol or a compact version of what they were trained with. Even if Griffin wanted to bring up a good carry revolver, the K frame .357magnum with a 2.5" barrel was around for decades. He also mentions Uzi SMGs when, in reality I doubt any working EP agent or bodyguard(outside of Israel maybe) would still be carrying a Uzi sub-gun. A HK MP5/MP5K, P90 5.7mm, SIG Sauer MPX, etc would be common today.

January 23, 2014, 10:59 AM	#20
Tom68 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 349	I can't believe nobody thus far has mentioned Earnest Hemingway...

January 23, 2014, 12:01 PM	#21
MikeNice81 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2010 Posts: 579	I can't believe everybody has skipped over Larry Correia. The man was a gun dealer, instructor, competitor, and wrote for magazines like SWAT. Some of the writing in his novels borders on gun ****. He gets it right most of the time unless he stretches it for literary effect. He also wrote one of my favorite gun control articles. http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/ Check out his Monster Hunter series or the book Dead Six. Dead Six was actually coauthored with an active duty member of the military. (Not a POG, if I remember correctly.)

January 23, 2014, 12:56 PM	#22
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	King's Solomon's Mine qualifies as both literature and a gun book. I had to read it in high school and barely finished, in fact I skimmed just enough to make a C or so on the exam. However, I re-read it over AT after bumming it from a buddy and it was really enjoyable the second time around. Lot's of talk of elephant hunting. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

January 23, 2014, 03:40 PM	#23
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,384	Patrick F. McManus’s Sheriff Bo Tully carried a .45 ACP Colt Commander. Patrick F. McManus handles firearms quite well in his books. He was a columnist for ‘Field and Stream’ and ‘Outdoor Life’. Some writers don’t handle guns at all well and even if they get the terminology right the gun stuff seems labored and clumsy in their books. Patrick McManus tosses gun references in his books that seem natural and effortless.

January 23, 2014, 08:45 PM	#24
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	McManus.... My grandparents kept several McManus novels in the camp. These were his humor books that he wrote in the 1970s/1980s. He told some funny stories about the woods & hunting. In 2012, I was in AK briefly & saw a McManus novel in a bar/hotel. Good stuff.

January 23, 2014, 09:10 PM	#25
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	knowing how many rounds a specific rifles holds in a specific caliber is good. Writing a paragraph about capacity, finish, how the gun works, every time the charecter picks it up is not good writing. for example, its like a movie that shows a 3 minute gun commercial for glock every time the gun appears on screen. matrix series would be 3 times as long.