Recoil spring/guide rod question

jmhyer · September 11, 2015, 01:40 PM

A friend of mine was advised that he likely needed to replace his guide rod/spring assembly. The reason? ...his empty brass was ejecting too far (about 10 feet) away from the gun. The explanation given was that a weak/worn spring is causing the slide to recoil too vigorously, thereby ejecting spent casings too far.

He is having zero malfunctions and the gun is otherwise running very well. It's a SA XD9, competition model and has the OEM guide rod/spring. He shoots only factory ammo. My guess is that he has maybe 3000-5000 rounds through it since purchased new about three years ago.

My $0.02 was that I wouldn't mess with anything until I was getting definitive malfunctions. The gun is NOT used for carry/self defense.

Any thoughts or opinions from the membership here?

James K · September 11, 2015, 02:07 PM

That is a fair distance to go to pick up brass; otherwise, I would things alone.

Has the gun always ejected that far or has something changed?

Jim

marine6680 · September 11, 2015, 02:24 PM

Some manufacturers suggest spring changes at 5000rds... others have longer schedules.

Some of the newer flat wound springs have been shown to last several tens of thousands of rounds.

You can always call SA for their recommendations.

But unless there are problems, I wouldn't bother changing it yet. Its not a defensive use pistol, so no need to be overly preventive. A little preventative is good for the pistol's lifespan, but unless the recoil seems overly sharp, no worries.

g.willikers · September 11, 2015, 02:42 PM

Ten feet?
Only ten feet?
He can probably use the exercise.

Skeets · September 11, 2015, 03:16 PM

If not broke,don't fix!

Bill DeShivs · September 11, 2015, 03:45 PM

Some of the older manufactured springs have been shown to last 100 years.

JWT · September 11, 2015, 05:28 PM

It's working well, why fiddle with it. Ten feet doesn't seem too bad...

bedbugbilly · September 11, 2015, 06:31 PM

I'd rather walk 10 feet to collect my brass than have it flying in my face . . but that's just me. I always lose a few but most of mine falls in the same general area - but then I'm shooting on my own range. A public range might be another story but they do make brass catchers. And, my cardiologist tells me I need to keep exercising . . . . .

It could be the reverse. I have a gal friend that I shoot with sometimes. She has a 380 Sig - and is very good with it. One day when we were going shooting, I suggested "that she change her top". She had a nice V neck tee shirt on. It was warm and I suggested she wear something with a higher neck just in case she had a problem with ejection. She pooed poked it and told me I was a "wimp". She changed her tune quite fast about midway through our range section when she got a "very hot" spent casing ejected straight back and down her neck. I don't think I have ever seen her squirm and spin so fast! Plus, it sort of got "wedged in" and she couldn't get it shaken out. Now, she follows my advice.

745SW · September 11, 2015, 08:06 PM

Having a spare RSA (recoil spring assembly) is a good thing and is probably readily available. I know it is for the Glock.

drobs · September 14, 2015, 02:07 AM

Get a factory replacement recoil spring assembly and compare. They are inexpensive.

Don't start messing with different Spring Weights.

Northrider · September 14, 2015, 02:39 AM

He could get a brass catcher. I have one that fits on my hand and I don't have to chase brass very often.

Ibmikey · September 14, 2015, 03:15 AM

My 1918 vintage Colt 1911 is still throwing brass out without incident using original springs. It will be a hundred years old in three years and i have no intention of replacing any springs.

stagpanther · September 14, 2015, 05:34 AM

10 ft? I have received notice from the Air Force that some of my spent brass from my glock 20 has been found in lower earth orbit. My recommendation is start looking at revolvers if it bothers too much. : )

darkgael · September 14, 2015, 05:42 AM

My Gold Cup has springs that have well passed the 20K mark since last changed. The fired cases drop around my feet.
Pete

jlee3681 · September 14, 2015, 09:44 AM

Just make sure anyone with him knows about the ejection and carry on.

jmhyer · September 14, 2015, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the replies. It doesn't bother him. It's just something that someone commented on as they observed him shooting.

Good advice about just getting a replacement for comparison. It could never hurt to have a spare anyway.

45Gunner · September 16, 2015, 12:17 AM

If brass starts to eject other than when the gun was relatively new, it probably is time for a recoil spring change. I have some guns that have gone well over 10,000 rounds without a change but then when I do change it, it feels almost like a new gun again.

I keep a variety of spare recoil springs in my range bag and some in the area where I work on my guns in my house. My carry guns get changed every 3000 rounds whether they need it or not. Worst time to have a spring failure is in the heat of battle. The average spring from Wolff is about $8. Small price to pay to keep your $1000 firearm running.

wpsdlrg · September 16, 2015, 08:18 AM

A much more telling issue is whether the FEEL of the gun in recoil has changed. When a recoil spring has had it, the slide will tend to bang against the slide stop and transmit more vibration through the grip - and it is easy to feel the difference.

Just because the brass is ejecting 10 feet is meaningless, in and of itself.....as long as the gun is functioning correctly. Put it down to stout loads.

If the shooter is well versed with his weapon, he/she should be able to feel when the recoil spring is getting weak. That and close inspection of the slide stop, etc., for signs of impact damage, are the factors by which to decide when a recoil spring must be replaced.

45Gunner · September 19, 2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

That and close inspection of the slide stop, etc., for signs of impact damage, are the factors by which to decide when a recoil spring must be replaced.

So, if I understand the above statement correctly, one must wait for signs of damage to change the recoil spring? I don't bite off on that for one second.

If you have any doubt as to when to change the recoil spring, follow the manufactures recommendation. If you start to have failures to feed or malfunctions, change the recoil spring.

lee n. field · September 19, 2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

A friend of mine was advised that he likely needed to replace his guide rod/spring assembly. The reason? ...his empty brass was ejecting too far (about 10 feet) away from the gun. The explanation given was that a weak/worn spring is causing the slide to recoil too vigorously, thereby ejecting spent casings too far.

He is having zero malfunctions and the gun is otherwise running very well. It's a SA XD9, competition model and has the OEM guide rod/spring. He shoots only factory ammo. My guess is that he has maybe 3000-5000 rounds through it since purchased new about three years ago.

If it's the long barrel "Tactical" model, it's got a traditional recoil set up with separate guide rod and single recoil spring. If so, replace the spring, see what happens.

Quote:

My $0.02 was that I wouldn't mess with anything until I was getting definitive malfunctions. The gun is NOT used for carry/self defense.

Any thoughts or opinions from the membership here?

Ditto.

Once upon a time, I had a CZ-100. Ejection was crazy inconsistant. All over the place, from barely clearing the barrel, to hitting me on the head, to far away. CZ-USA's gunsmith's response: unless it's actually jamming, there's no problem to address.

DPris · September 19, 2015, 01:39 PM

10 feet is absolutely nothing.
I go through several guns annually & many can toss 'em 15-20.

8-19 is quite common.
Denis

stagpanther · September 19, 2015, 05:04 PM

Which brings to mind what a really well tuned pistol would be--imagine getting good groups on paper AND all your brass landing in a bucket positioned at the appropriate distance.

dakota1911 · September 21, 2015, 03:40 PM

Ten feet is not bad. One can get calibration packs from Wolff to see if you could change it I guess.

cougar gt-e · September 21, 2015, 04:40 PM

Video the shooter from the side, zoomed to the gun. On recoil, does the gun dip? Competion shooters run weak springs to keep slide velocity low, so it won't recoil up, then dip below target line.

He may need a WEAKER spring to minimize recoil and flatten out the gun.

Walt Sherrill · September 23, 2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Competion shooters run weak springs to keep slide velocity low, so it won't recoil up, then dip below target line.

A weaker recoil spring will INCREASE slide velocity, as will a weaker hammer spring on a hammer-fired gun.

One pro I know uses very light recoil springs and a buffer -- the spring lets the slide slide come back more quickly, and the buffer helps stop the slide. He does it to be able to fire more rapidly.

A lot of the top shooters roll their own ammo and use loads set to the lowest levels that meet the appropriate power factors. Muzzle flip doesn't seem to be a big concern for most of them.

(That's not to say that other shooters don't attempt to control muzzle flip with recoil springs or recoil reduction systems.)

.

September 11, 2015, 01:40 PM	#1
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 917	Recoil spring/guide rod question A friend of mine was advised that he likely needed to replace his guide rod/spring assembly. The reason? ...his empty brass was ejecting too far (about 10 feet) away from the gun. The explanation given was that a weak/worn spring is causing the slide to recoil too vigorously, thereby ejecting spent casings too far. He is having zero malfunctions and the gun is otherwise running very well. It's a SA XD9, competition model and has the OEM guide rod/spring. He shoots only factory ammo. My guess is that he has maybe 3000-5000 rounds through it since purchased new about three years ago. My $0.02 was that I wouldn't mess with anything until I was getting definitive malfunctions. The gun is NOT used for carry/self defense. Any thoughts or opinions from the membership here?

September 11, 2015, 03:16 PM	#5
Skeets Member in memoriam Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 583	If not broke,don't fix! __________________ Skeets "Over Kill Never Fails"

September 11, 2015, 03:45 PM	#6
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,107	Some of the older manufactured springs have been shown to last 100 years. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 11, 2015, 06:31 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,290	I'd rather walk 10 feet to collect my brass than have it flying in my face . . but that's just me. I always lose a few but most of mine falls in the same general area - but then I'm shooting on my own range. A public range might be another story but they do make brass catchers. And, my cardiologist tells me I need to keep exercising . . . . . It could be the reverse. I have a gal friend that I shoot with sometimes. She has a 380 Sig - and is very good with it. One day when we were going shooting, I suggested "that she change her top". She had a nice V neck tee shirt on. It was warm and I suggested she wear something with a higher neck just in case she had a problem with ejection. She pooed poked it and told me I was a "wimp". She changed her tune quite fast about midway through our range section when she got a "very hot" spent casing ejected straight back and down her neck. I don't think I have ever seen her squirm and spin so fast! Plus, it sort of got "wedged in" and she couldn't get it shaken out. Now, she follows my advice. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 14, 2015, 05:34 AM	#13
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 12,968	10 ft? I have received notice from the Air Force that some of my spent brass from my glock 20 has been found in lower earth orbit. My recommendation is start looking at revolvers if it bothers too much. : ) __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

September 11, 2015, 02:07 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That is a fair distance to go to pick up brass; otherwise, I would things alone. Has the gun always ejected that far or has something changed? Jim

September 11, 2015, 02:24 PM	#3
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Some manufacturers suggest spring changes at 5000rds... others have longer schedules. Some of the newer flat wound springs have been shown to last several tens of thousands of rounds. You can always call SA for their recommendations. But unless there are problems, I wouldn't bother changing it yet. Its not a defensive use pistol, so no need to be overly preventive. A little preventative is good for the pistol's lifespan, but unless the recoil seems overly sharp, no worries.

September 11, 2015, 02:42 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Ten feet? Only ten feet? He can probably use the exercise.

September 11, 2015, 05:28 PM	#7
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	It's working well, why fiddle with it. Ten feet doesn't seem too bad...

September 11, 2015, 08:06 PM	#9
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	Having a spare RSA (recoil spring assembly) is a good thing and is probably readily available. I know it is for the Glock.

September 14, 2015, 02:07 AM	#10
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Get a factory replacement recoil spring assembly and compare. They are inexpensive. Don't start messing with different Spring Weights.

September 14, 2015, 02:39 AM	#11
Northrider Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2011 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 228	He could get a brass catcher. I have one that fits on my hand and I don't have to chase brass very often.

September 14, 2015, 03:15 AM	#12
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	My 1918 vintage Colt 1911 is still throwing brass out without incident using original springs. It will be a hundred years old in three years and i have no intention of replacing any springs.

September 14, 2015, 05:42 AM	#14
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	springs My Gold Cup has springs that have well passed the 20K mark since last changed. The fired cases drop around my feet. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

September 14, 2015, 09:44 AM	#15
jlee3681 Junior Member Join Date: August 10, 2015 Posts: 7	Just make sure anyone with him knows about the ejection and carry on.

September 14, 2015, 01:42 PM	#16
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 917	Thanks for the replies. It doesn't bother him. It's just something that someone commented on as they observed him shooting. Good advice about just getting a replacement for comparison. It could never hurt to have a spare anyway.

September 16, 2015, 12:17 AM	#17
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	If brass starts to eject other than when the gun was relatively new, it probably is time for a recoil spring change. I have some guns that have gone well over 10,000 rounds without a change but then when I do change it, it feels almost like a new gun again. I keep a variety of spare recoil springs in my range bag and some in the area where I work on my guns in my house. My carry guns get changed every 3000 rounds whether they need it or not. Worst time to have a spring failure is in the heat of battle. The average spring from Wolff is about $8. Small price to pay to keep your $1000 firearm running. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

September 16, 2015, 08:18 AM	#18
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	A much more telling issue is whether the FEEL of the gun in recoil has changed. When a recoil spring has had it, the slide will tend to bang against the slide stop and transmit more vibration through the grip - and it is easy to feel the difference. Just because the brass is ejecting 10 feet is meaningless, in and of itself.....as long as the gun is functioning correctly. Put it down to stout loads. If the shooter is well versed with his weapon, he/she should be able to feel when the recoil spring is getting weak. That and close inspection of the slide stop, etc., for signs of impact damage, are the factors by which to decide when a recoil spring must be replaced.

September 19, 2015, 01:39 PM	#21
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	10 feet is absolutely nothing. I go through several guns annually & many can toss 'em 15-20. 8-19 is quite common. Denis

September 19, 2015, 05:04 PM	#22
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 12,968	Which brings to mind what a really well tuned pistol would be--imagine getting good groups on paper AND all your brass landing in a bucket positioned at the appropriate distance. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

September 21, 2015, 03:40 PM	#23
dakota1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: The Great American Desert Posts: 501	Ten feet is not bad. One can get calibration packs from Wolff to see if you could change it I guess.

September 21, 2015, 04:40 PM	#24
cougar gt-e Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2009 Posts: 1,003	Video the shooter from the side, zoomed to the gun. On recoil, does the gun dip? Competion shooters run weak springs to keep slide velocity low, so it won't recoil up, then dip below target line. He may need a WEAKER spring to minimize recoil and flatten out the gun.