realistic displays of firearm use in Hollywood?

Koda94 · June 9, 2013, 06:49 PM

Disclaimer, this thread is just for fun.

A while back a video was posted of a clip from a Miami Vice episode of a villain (played by a professional shooter) performing a perfect and proper draw... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsKj6RGQ2VM I was a huge fan of Miami Vice back then but never thought much of the training the actors went through. This made me wonder, what movies or TV shows are out there that present a realistic use of firearms...? (for good or bad)

Back in high school I had that one friend that always wore fatigues... he would always introduce me to B grade war movies plus all the mainstream ones that 'he thought' were good. One movie stuck out to me over time filmed in the "found footage" genre, 84 Charlie Mopic. Back then, I swore it was the most realistic war movie ever made, except that it was still fiction.... The film is a mock-up documentary of a recon mission gone bad filmed from a "84 mopic" cameraman POV. I cant help but wonder how "realistic" that movie was though to real US military techniques applied in Vietnam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQsGHslcZzo, Its a hard movie to find, but I think the link is the full feature length film...

so just for fun, what movies or TV shows are out there that present a realistic use of firearms...?

HK_Flo · June 9, 2013, 06:58 PM

I was going to mention Collateral but it was the 1st thing in your video.

MLeake · June 9, 2013, 07:05 PM

Miami Vice, Collateral, and Heat all have Michael Mann as director.

Anything with Dale Dye as an advisor - he worked on Platoon, Forrest Gump, and Saving Private Ryan.

Most Tom Selleck movies and shows; Selleck has attended Gun Site and Thunder Ranch, IIRC.

Way of the Gun, and Thief - James Caan seems to know his way around a pistol.

Other noted actors who are or were serious shooters include Joe Mantegna, Robert Stack, Audie Murphy, and Lee Marvin.

For that matter, Michael Caine was a Korean War vet, and shows some skill in various war and gangster flicks from the 60s.

Robert Ryan, too - but WWII Marine, IIRC (as was Marvin).

Koda94 · June 9, 2013, 07:11 PM

What I didn't like about that scene from Collateral was the second bad guy just fumbled with his draw way too long, But Tom's draw looked perfect.

The interesting thing about Tom Selleck is he has a ton of movies out there that I was not aware of, it might be worth renting one sometime. However, I must add Collateral to my rental list as that's one recent one I have not seen yet.

MLeake · June 9, 2013, 07:14 PM

So you figure a meth head amateur mugger should have a smooth draw, and a professional assassin should not?

Note: Cruise trained with an SAS veteran on gun handling for Collateral.

Note 2: Attend an IDPA match sometime, and see how (not) fast most newer people are on the draw, even when they are expecting the buzzer and even when nobody is shooting at them.

Koda94 · June 9, 2013, 07:19 PM

now I did say I have not seen collateral, yet, so realistically a meth head mugger would probably botch his draw.

RamItOne · June 9, 2013, 07:44 PM

Just watched that episode of Miami Vice a month ago, rewound that scene almost a dozen times. Was impressed, they could have changed camera angles during the draw or have cut to showing him with the gun already in his hand like they do in a lot of movies

UncleEd · June 9, 2013, 11:27 PM

MLeake, in your list, you mentioned "Thief." It's also a Michael Mann film. James Caan for "Thief" was trained at Gunsite when it was under Jeff Cooper.

And "Last of the Mohicans" a ditto with Michael Mann as well as the
recent "Public Enemies."

ClydeFrog · June 9, 2013, 11:43 PM

I recall watching a older ep of the popular 1990s ABC sitcom Doogie Howser MD.

In the episode, Doogie(who as a boy genius became a MD) decided to buy a handgun for protection. He goes to a southern CA area gun shop & SURPRISE, the gun shop manager was informative, mature & explained that he would need to learn firearms safety/secure storage.

The TV sitcom episode was a welcome change from how most gun owners or gun shop clerks are displayed by Hollywood.

CF

RickB · June 10, 2013, 12:03 PM

Movies "influenced" by John Milius generally have the guns and gunhandling well done. He has been involved in the Dirty Harry series, the original Red Dawn, The Wind and the Lion, Jeremiah Johnson, and Rough Riders.

btmj · June 10, 2013, 01:20 PM

Most realistic gun handling and tactics in movies and TV:

The original starsky and hutch with David Soul and Paul Glaser. Awesome.

Sylvester Stalone in First Blood. Wow, can't get more realistic than that.

Early Arnold Films, particularly Commando, Raw Deal, and Predator...

The Matrix. This is what I aspire to in all my training... I want to be like Neo...

MLeake · June 10, 2013, 03:13 PM

I had forgotten that Mann directed Thief.

Bart Noir · June 10, 2013, 07:41 PM

btmj missed the button for the Super Cosmic Satire Smiley

Bart Noir

Bart Noir · June 10, 2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Other noted actors who are or were serious shooters include .... Audie Murphy, ...

Ya think???? Anybody who is awarded the Medal of Honor for shooting the enemy, might just be serious about shooting!

(I had to make this comment for the benefit of the younger people on this forum, who might not know who Audie Murphy was.)

We do have younger people, don't we?

I certainly would not be one of them

Bart Noir

SgtLumpy · June 10, 2013, 09:28 PM

Quote:

We do have younger people, don't we?

No. I told them all to "get off my lawn"

Sgt Lumpy

**Mike Irwin** · June 10, 2013, 10:24 PM

Oddly enough, there was a LOT that was right about "The Mummy" with Brendan Fraser.

I would say more right than wrong.

**44 AMP** · June 10, 2013, 11:52 PM

I have to give high marks to the scene in Sahara (the Dirk Pitt one, not the old Bogart flic), where the sidekick character picks up a discarded AK during a gun fight, and (wonder of wonders), pops the mag, looks in it, re-seats it, than checks the chamber before shooting. Not what one commonly sees these days.

Lordy123 · June 11, 2013, 12:17 PM

There a couple really good gun play scenes in "Elephant White", there's also some bad ones, but overall I thought it was a decent film. Its on netflix streaming and you can catch some clips on IMDB.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1578882/

The scenes that stuck out to me where the martial arts scene in the woods when he's dreaming; saw a decent amount of bujikan/ninjutsu in his lower to the ground executions. The other scene was when he was sniping, patiently choreographing his moves, talking to himself as he does "Definitely coming back for you" "And you too" and then executing his plan.

Ignition Override · June 12, 2013, 03:02 AM

If you mean firefights, veterans seem to claim that "Heat" is among the best, and might have been to firefights what "Bullitt" did to first depict exciting car chases.

paknheat · June 12, 2013, 04:27 AM

BlackHawk Down kinda did it for me.

UncleEd · June 12, 2013, 06:55 AM

With the mention of "Heat" we again come back to one name: Michael Mann

ThomasT · June 12, 2013, 10:07 PM

Gerald McRaney and Jamison Parker were both gun buffs and it show in the Simon & Simon series. Also Gerald McRaneys part in the series "Jerico" shows he is a skilled shooter.

RickB · June 13, 2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Most realistic gun handling and tactics in movies and TV:

The original starsky and hutch with David Soul and Paul Glaser. Awesome.

Really? Starsk had a habit of holding his DA auto pistol pointed straight overhead, as he thumb-cocked it (or maybe they just played that clip during the credits, so it seemed like he did it all the time?). Neither is good technique.

Glenn Dee · June 13, 2013, 07:07 PM

lol That wasnt a A/K Bogart picked up. They hadnt been invented yet. it was a sturmgvier (sp). The grand daddy of all assault rifles.

Besides where would the Germans in Africa get an AK?

Glenn Dee · June 13, 2013, 07:11 PM

My vote for realistic gun handling would be Barney Miller. Cops guns mostly stayed in holsters. Far as movies... In my opinion the best, and most realistic gun handling is a movie titled "WE OWN THE NIGHT"

June 9, 2013, 06:49 PM	#1
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,363	realistic displays of firearm use in Hollywood? Disclaimer, this thread is just for fun. A while back a video was posted of a clip from a Miami Vice episode of a villain (played by a professional shooter) performing a perfect and proper draw... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsKj6RGQ2VM I was a huge fan of Miami Vice back then but never thought much of the training the actors went through. This made me wonder, what movies or TV shows are out there that present a realistic use of firearms...? (for good or bad) Back in high school I had that one friend that always wore fatigues... he would always introduce me to B grade war movies plus all the mainstream ones that 'he thought' were good. One movie stuck out to me over time filmed in the "found footage" genre, 84 Charlie Mopic. Back then, I swore it was the most realistic war movie ever made, except that it was still fiction.... The film is a mock-up documentary of a recon mission gone bad filmed from a "84 mopic" cameraman POV. I cant help but wonder how "realistic" that movie was though to real US military techniques applied in Vietnam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQsGHslcZzo, Its a hard movie to find, but I think the link is the full feature length film... so just for fun, what movies or TV shows are out there that present a realistic use of firearms...? __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

June 9, 2013, 07:05 PM	#3
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Miami Vice, Collateral, and Heat all have Michael Mann as director. Anything with Dale Dye as an advisor - he worked on Platoon, Forrest Gump, and Saving Private Ryan. Most Tom Selleck movies and shows; Selleck has attended Gun Site and Thunder Ranch, IIRC. Way of the Gun, and Thief - James Caan seems to know his way around a pistol. Other noted actors who are or were serious shooters include Joe Mantegna, Robert Stack, Audie Murphy, and Lee Marvin. For that matter, Michael Caine was a Korean War vet, and shows some skill in various war and gangster flicks from the 60s. Robert Ryan, too - but WWII Marine, IIRC (as was Marvin). Last edited by MLeake; June 9, 2013 at 07:11 PM.

June 9, 2013, 07:11 PM	#4
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,363	What I didn't like about that scene from Collateral was the second bad guy just fumbled with his draw way too long, But Tom's draw looked perfect. The interesting thing about Tom Selleck is he has a ton of movies out there that I was not aware of, it might be worth renting one sometime. However, I must add Collateral to my rental list as that's one recent one I have not seen yet. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

June 9, 2013, 07:19 PM	#6
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,363	now I did say I have not seen collateral, yet, so realistically a meth head mugger would probably botch his draw. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

June 9, 2013, 11:43 PM	#9
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Doogie Howser MD.... I recall watching a older ep of the popular 1990s ABC sitcom Doogie Howser MD. In the episode, Doogie(who as a boy genius became a MD) decided to buy a handgun for protection. He goes to a southern CA area gun shop & SURPRISE, the gun shop manager was informative, mature & explained that he would need to learn firearms safety/secure storage. The TV sitcom episode was a welcome change from how most gun owners or gun shop clerks are displayed by Hollywood. CF

June 9, 2013, 06:58 PM	#2
HK_Flo Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2011 Posts: 122	I was going to mention Collateral but it was the 1st thing in your video.

June 9, 2013, 07:14 PM	#5
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	So you figure a meth head amateur mugger should have a smooth draw, and a professional assassin should not? Note: Cruise trained with an SAS veteran on gun handling for Collateral. Note 2: Attend an IDPA match sometime, and see how (not) fast most newer people are on the draw, even when they are expecting the buzzer and even when nobody is shooting at them.

June 9, 2013, 07:44 PM	#7
RamItOne Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2011 Posts: 990	Just watched that episode of Miami Vice a month ago, rewound that scene almost a dozen times. Was impressed, they could have changed camera angles during the draw or have cut to showing him with the gun already in his hand like they do in a lot of movies

June 9, 2013, 11:27 PM	#8
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	MLeake, in your list, you mentioned "Thief." It's also a Michael Mann film. James Caan for "Thief" was trained at Gunsite when it was under Jeff Cooper. And "Last of the Mohicans" a ditto with Michael Mann as well as the recent "Public Enemies."

June 10, 2013, 12:03 PM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,559	Movies "influenced" by John Milius generally have the guns and gunhandling well done. He has been involved in the Dirty Harry series, the original Red Dawn, The Wind and the Lion, Jeremiah Johnson, and Rough Riders.

June 10, 2013, 01:20 PM	#11
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	Most realistic gun handling and tactics in movies and TV: The original starsky and hutch with David Soul and Paul Glaser. Awesome. Sylvester Stalone in First Blood. Wow, can't get more realistic than that. Early Arnold Films, particularly Commando, Raw Deal, and Predator... The Matrix. This is what I aspire to in all my training... I want to be like Neo...

June 10, 2013, 03:13 PM	#12
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I had forgotten that Mann directed Thief.

June 10, 2013, 07:41 PM	#13
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	btmj missed the button for the Super Cosmic Satire Smiley Bart Noir

June 10, 2013, 10:24 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Oddly enough, there was a LOT that was right about "The Mummy" with Brendan Fraser. I would say more right than wrong. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 10, 2013, 11:52 PM	#17
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,487	I have to give high marks to the scene in Sahara (the Dirk Pitt one, not the old Bogart flic), where the sidekick character picks up a discarded AK during a gun fight, and (wonder of wonders), pops the mag, looks in it, re-seats it, than checks the chamber before shooting. Not what one commonly sees these days. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 11, 2013, 12:17 PM	#18
Lordy123 Member Join Date: June 6, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 94	There a couple really good gun play scenes in "Elephant White", there's also some bad ones, but overall I thought it was a decent film. Its on netflix streaming and you can catch some clips on IMDB. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1578882/ The scenes that stuck out to me where the martial arts scene in the woods when he's dreaming; saw a decent amount of bujikan/ninjutsu in his lower to the ground executions. The other scene was when he was sniping, patiently choreographing his moves, talking to himself as he does "Definitely coming back for you" "And you too" and then executing his plan.

June 12, 2013, 03:02 AM	#19
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,899	If you mean firefights, veterans seem to claim that "Heat" is among the best, and might have been to firefights what "Bullitt" did to first depict exciting car chases.

June 12, 2013, 04:27 AM	#20
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 384	realistic displays of firearm use in Hollywood? BlackHawk Down kinda did it for me.

June 12, 2013, 06:55 AM	#21
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	With the mention of "Heat" we again come back to one name: Michael Mann

June 12, 2013, 10:07 PM	#22
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,773	Gerald McRaney and Jamison Parker were both gun buffs and it show in the Simon & Simon series. Also Gerald McRaneys part in the series "Jerico" shows he is a skilled shooter.

June 13, 2013, 07:07 PM	#24
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,559	lol That wasnt a A/K Bogart picked up. They hadnt been invented yet. it was a sturmgvier (sp). The grand daddy of all assault rifles. Besides where would the Germans in Africa get an AK?

June 13, 2013, 07:11 PM	#25
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,559	My vote for realistic gun handling would be Barney Miller. Cops guns mostly stayed in holsters. Far as movies... In my opinion the best, and most realistic gun handling is a movie titled "WE OWN THE NIGHT"