Gun sizes

Pipeline · June 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

I've read that a Ruger GP is about the same size as a Smith 686 (L frame)? The Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six is described as a tad smaller than a GP (but bigger than a SP), and a Smith M19 (K frame) is described as a tad smaller than a 686 (but bigger than a J frame), so it stands to reason that the Sixes are comparable in size to the K frames? Yet, I just saw a clip on youtube where they were comparing the Security Six to a 686 and they looked pretty much identical in size. Can someone clarify how these guns stack up in size? Much obliged.

tgrbob · June 9, 2013, 11:48 PM

The problem with comparing revolver "sizes" is that barrel length, grips and cylinder capacity more less determine how big the gun seems. I have N-frame Smiths that are easier to carry than some of my K-frames, which have smaller frames but more barrel. Combining a small grip, short barrel and a 5 shot cylinder will make for a small looking gun on almost any frame.

Pipeline · June 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

The problem with comparing revolver "sizes" is that barrel length

Let's say we're comparing a 4 inch K frame (Model 19) to a 4 inch Six...

UncleEd · June 10, 2013, 07:53 AM

A quick way to determine "size" is to learn which speed loader each gun takes; that at least gives you cylinder diameter and SOME compatibility with holstering, etc.

A GP 100 and 586/686 take the same speed loader.

Memory serves me correctly, a K-frame and Security Six take the same speed loader.

A Python has the same dimensions as the 586 and takes a similar sized speed loader.

A Police Positive/Detective Special takes a different speed loader than all of the above, albeit being slightly smaller than the K-frame.

jmr40 · June 10, 2013, 08:37 AM

The K frame S&W revolvers were essentially the same size as the Ruger Speed and Security Six. Most of the time you can use the same holster with equal barrel length.

Smith N frames are larger, and compare with the Redhawk from Ruger.

The Colt Python splits the difference in size and was the first to offer the full length ejector housing. The S&W 586/686 series is Smiths answer as is the Ruger GP-100. All 3 are very close in size.

The Smith J frames are much smaller. The Ruger SP-101 is much larger and heavier than a J frame, almost as large as a K frame or Speed Six. I never saw the point in the SP's. I'd just as soon by a K frame or Speed and get 6 shots instead of 5.

UncleEd · June 10, 2013, 09:19 AM

I agree with jmr40 when it comes to the SP 101 although I'll admit it handles .357s better than any of the other small frames. I consider the SP 101 close in dimensions to the Colt D Frames, i.e. the Detective Special.

And again, yes, the Smith L Frames basically duplicate the Colt I Frames and were made to be compatible to police leather for those who were using a Python but wanted a cheaper alternative. When it comes to HKS speed loaders I've used the Python and "586" models interchangeably.

Rifleman1776 · June 10, 2013, 09:27 AM

Go to a gun shop and look at them.

Pipeline · June 10, 2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Go to a gun shop and look at them.

So obvious! Why didn't I think of that?

Oh, I forgot. The shelves at the LGS are empty. Duh.

Nathan · June 10, 2013, 11:48 AM

"Size" is all about frame size. It is defined by the weight, caliber and pressure that a frame can handle.

The overall size of a gun is a combination of barrel size, grip and frame size.

The term "size" will often be directly related to the portability of a revolver. A J frame can fit in a pocket. A K frame is a light handy IWB or thin OWB holster. Going to L or N is big enough to be hard to CCW at all, but still possible.

Dave T · June 10, 2013, 02:09 PM

The largest producer of DA revolvers in the US is no doubt S&W. Their Model 10 (M&P) has been in production since 1899. Because of this long history I think Smith & Wesson frame sizes have become the standard against which others are compared.

When most people say "medium frame" they are taking about the K-frame S&W, a 6-shot revolver. Colt's D-frame (the Detective Special) is also a 6-shot but is a little smaller than the K-frame S&W, while the 5-shot J-frame S&W is smaller than the D-frame Colt. Colt's Officer's Model/Trooper/Python frame size (their Model 0 if I remember correctly) is a little bigger than the K-frame Smith and was nearly matched in the early 1980s when Smith introduced their L-frame.

In the early 1970s when Ruger introduced the Security series of DA revolvers they were immediately compared to the K-frame Smiths, particularly the M19. Someone on YouTube saying the Security Six is the same as a 586 doesn't make it so. Most people think the GP-100 is the Ruger model that is the closest to the L-frame S&W.

Dave

UncleEd · June 10, 2013, 02:32 PM

Dave T, oopsy, Python is an I frame; the O frame is the 1911--and then there's the J frame that includes the later Troopers/King Cobras.

Dave T · June 12, 2013, 12:24 PM

Ed, you're absolutely correct! (smile) I knew "O" didn't sound right but I couldn't look it up at the time and was depending on my 65 year old memory. These days that often doesn't work. (LOL)

Dave

AID_Admin · June 12, 2013, 01:03 PM

While we are on the subject may I ask of a size of Dan Wesson (Models 14 and 15)? I've heard they are same size as S&W L-frame, but I never handled a DW revolver... Can the owners of both confirm? Thanks.

s4s4u · June 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Go to a gun shop and look at them.

Good luck with that. All those models in the same store?

mavracer · June 13, 2013, 09:15 PM

The SP101 is just a smidge bigger than a J frame and a D-frame Colt has about the same size frame as a SP with a bigger cylinder but the SP is is thicker throughout.
The K frame and Six series Rugers are about the same size but the Ruger is little heavier, the Dan Wesson small frame is nearly the same size. The L frame and the GP100 are again about the same size with thr Ruger being just a little thicker in most places. The colt Python and King Cobra are in between a K and L frame size.
The problem a lot of people have with this is there's not really a huge difference from top to bottom with all the med frame 357s.

Quote:

Oh, I forgot. The shelves at the LGS are empty. Duh.

If you're near Wichita Ks I can help.

June 9, 2013, 11:18 PM	#1
Pipeline Member Join Date: January 29, 2013 Posts: 16	Gun sizes I've read that a Ruger GP is about the same size as a Smith 686 (L frame)? The Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six is described as a tad smaller than a GP (but bigger than a SP), and a Smith M19 (K frame) is described as a tad smaller than a 686 (but bigger than a J frame), so it stands to reason that the Sixes are comparable in size to the K frames? Yet, I just saw a clip on youtube where they were comparing the Security Six to a 686 and they looked pretty much identical in size. Can someone clarify how these guns stack up in size? Much obliged.

June 10, 2013, 02:09 PM	#10
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,458	The largest producer of DA revolvers in the US is no doubt S&W. Their Model 10 (M&P) has been in production since 1899. Because of this long history I think Smith & Wesson frame sizes have become the standard against which others are compared. When most people say "medium frame" they are taking about the K-frame S&W, a 6-shot revolver. Colt's D-frame (the Detective Special) is also a 6-shot but is a little smaller than the K-frame S&W, while the 5-shot J-frame S&W is smaller than the D-frame Colt. Colt's Officer's Model/Trooper/Python frame size (their Model 0 if I remember correctly) is a little bigger than the K-frame Smith and was nearly matched in the early 1980s when Smith introduced their L-frame. In the early 1970s when Ruger introduced the Security series of DA revolvers they were immediately compared to the K-frame Smiths, particularly the M19. Someone on YouTube saying the Security Six is the same as a 586 doesn't make it so. Most people think the GP-100 is the Ruger model that is the closest to the L-frame S&W. Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

June 12, 2013, 12:24 PM	#12
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,458	Ed, you're absolutely correct! (smile) I knew "O" didn't sound right but I couldn't look it up at the time and was depending on my 65 year old memory. These days that often doesn't work. (LOL) Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

June 9, 2013, 11:48 PM	#2
tgrbob Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2013 Location: MT Posts: 1	The problem with comparing revolver "sizes" is that barrel length, grips and cylinder capacity more less determine how big the gun seems. I have N-frame Smiths that are easier to carry than some of my K-frames, which have smaller frames but more barrel. Combining a small grip, short barrel and a 5 shot cylinder will make for a small looking gun on almost any frame.

June 10, 2013, 07:53 AM	#4
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	A quick way to determine "size" is to learn which speed loader each gun takes; that at least gives you cylinder diameter and SOME compatibility with holstering, etc. A GP 100 and 586/686 take the same speed loader. Memory serves me correctly, a K-frame and Security Six take the same speed loader. A Python has the same dimensions as the 586 and takes a similar sized speed loader. A Police Positive/Detective Special takes a different speed loader than all of the above, albeit being slightly smaller than the K-frame.

June 10, 2013, 08:37 AM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,973	The K frame S&W revolvers were essentially the same size as the Ruger Speed and Security Six. Most of the time you can use the same holster with equal barrel length. Smith N frames are larger, and compare with the Redhawk from Ruger. The Colt Python splits the difference in size and was the first to offer the full length ejector housing. The S&W 586/686 series is Smiths answer as is the Ruger GP-100. All 3 are very close in size. The Smith J frames are much smaller. The Ruger SP-101 is much larger and heavier than a J frame, almost as large as a K frame or Speed Six. I never saw the point in the SP's. I'd just as soon by a K frame or Speed and get 6 shots instead of 5.

June 10, 2013, 09:19 AM	#6
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	I agree with jmr40 when it comes to the SP 101 although I'll admit it handles .357s better than any of the other small frames. I consider the SP 101 close in dimensions to the Colt D Frames, i.e. the Detective Special. And again, yes, the Smith L Frames basically duplicate the Colt I Frames and were made to be compatible to police leather for those who were using a Python but wanted a cheaper alternative. When it comes to HKS speed loaders I've used the Python and "586" models interchangeably.

June 10, 2013, 09:27 AM	#7
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Go to a gun shop and look at them.

June 10, 2013, 11:48 AM	#9
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,823	"Size" is all about frame size. It is defined by the weight, caliber and pressure that a frame can handle. The overall size of a gun is a combination of barrel size, grip and frame size. The term "size" will often be directly related to the portability of a revolver. A J frame can fit in a pocket. A K frame is a light handy IWB or thin OWB holster. Going to L or N is big enough to be hard to CCW at all, but still possible.

June 10, 2013, 02:32 PM	#11
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	Dave T, oopsy, Python is an I frame; the O frame is the 1911--and then there's the J frame that includes the later Troopers/King Cobras.

June 12, 2013, 01:03 PM	#13
AID_Admin Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2013 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 323	While we are on the subject may I ask of a size of Dan Wesson (Models 14 and 15)? I've heard they are same size as S&W L-frame, but I never handled a DW revolver... Can the owners of both confirm? Thanks.