What's the best bet for non brass cases?

[kcub]

If all you can obtain is aluminum or steel case ammo, which models have the strongest extractors and least likely to chip or break?

I would think Commie bloc pistols like the Makarov that were designed to be fed nothing but steel case ammo might be the best in this regard. What say ye?

[Jeremiah/Az]

I shoot aluminum cases if I can't get brass, but never steel. Aluminum cases can not be reloaded however.

[arizona98tj]

I shoot brass, aluminum, and steel in my rifles and handguns. Never had a single extractor issue.

The metal your extractor is made from is high quality and tempered for strength. The steel cases are quite soft in comparison and the aluminum is softer than brass.

You are expecting a problem where there isn't one, IMO.

[44 AMP]

The metal your extractor is made from is high quality and tempered for strength. The steel cases are quite soft in comparison and the aluminum is softer than brass.

You are expecting a problem where there isn't one, IMO.

Actually there is a real problem with certain combinations, but its rather rare, affecting only certain guns (and their owners). And its not the expected issue with extractor breakage.

There is an issue when using Blazer (aluminium) cased ammo in certain calibers, in certain action types. Magnum auto pistols.

The regular short auto pistols rounds (9mm, .45, etc) seldom have this problem. While the long magnum cases work fine in revolvers, the same aluminium cases fail at a high rate in autos. Not usually case ruptures on firing, but case rim failures during the extraction cycle. The thin aluminium rim on a .357 case lets the extractor tear through during extraction much more often than a brass case. Also the different adhesion of the case to the chamber walls (Al vs brass), combined with the long length/surface area of the magnum case can cause functioning issues. In a semi auto, the timing of these things is important, and more important with longer cases than shorter ones.

Now, not a lot of people have .357 or .44 mag autopistols, but some of us do. And for those who do, I recommend DO NOT USE BLAZER ammo in these guns. I don't know of anyone currently loading steel case ammo in those calibers, but if there is, I would expect funtion in a magnum auto pistol to be "iffy" until proven otherwise.

Personally, I don't shoot steel case ammo, and rarely blazer, in anything, but then I'm a dedicated reloader. There's a lot of BS running around about steel case ammo, everything from "its fine and cheap!" to "it'll break your gun!!!"

Obviously, both extremes have happened to somebody, I think its reasonable to expect something somewhere inbetween. I note that, particularly in rifles, guns designed in the east bloc to use steel case ammo tend to have fairly beefy extractors. This may be the result of careful study of what works best with steel case ammo, or it may not. Personally, I think its just the result of the Russian/Soviet tendency to build things a bit big and tough, to ensure that what works, works.

I don't think it matters so much with handguns. Lower pressure, smaller cases might not have the same issues as rifle rounds. The extractors of east bloc autopistols don't seem to be any bigger than "usual". Just a theory...

[kcub]

Thanks, 44 AMP, very good stuff to know. I should have taken this thread along that tack of "what might be a problem if all you can get is steel or aluminum cased ammo".

Though not a pistol, I have an Egyptian Rashid in 7.62x39 that is known for breaking extractors. The best thing is to shoot brass ammo. Those kind of gotchas are always good to know.

[Walt Sherrill]

Years back I heard a lot of complaints about Wolf ammo causing problems in semi-autos. That problem, I think, had more to do with the shellac-like coating used on the cases than with the metal casing itself. If the gun got really hot, the coating seemed to melt and leave some residue in the chamber. When the next round was chambered, and not fired, that residue could, the theory went, as the gun cooled a bit become like glue, make the next round almost impossible to extract.

I never personally observed any broken extractors -- only heard about it on the web -- but did see a number of extraction-related jams at various ranges.

Wolf has since changed the coating on their cases, and I don't see or hear about the old problems any more. The indoor ranges where I shoot hates the stuff, because it has no salvage value... and they get their brass collected and cleaned up in exchange for the "recycling value" of the spent cases and lead.

[KyJim]

I have read reports of steel cased ammo causing some problems in 1911s. Not the extractor but gases backing up through the firing pin hole, IIRC. I haven't shot any in a 1911 but have shot them in a S&W M&P semiauto in 9mm and .223 in an AR with no problems