COAL's reloading manuals vs Remington factory for .30-30 Win

GWV · November 21, 2011, 07:37 PM

I am planning on reloading for a Marlin 336, .30-30 Win.
I bought a box of Remington 150 gr. Soft Point Core-Lokt bullets and checked the COAL's, and they were from 2.495" to 2.505" in length.
The Hornaday,Speer, and Lyman manuals specify 2.540" to 2.550" as their length's for soft point round nose bullets similar to the Rem. core-lokt's.
I will be using the Sierra V reloading manual with all their components except for the factory powder, and replacing the sierra bullet with a remington 150 gr. core-lokt.
I would like some opinions on what COAL to use.
The Factory bullets worked fine in my rifle but the COAL's are shorter than what is specified in the manuals.
Why is there such a difference in length's ?

Brian Pfleuger · November 21, 2011, 08:16 PM

You should determine the OAL by measuring the chamber of your gun.

Otherwise, use the length listed in the load data for the bullet that you intend to use.

OAL listed listed by SAAMI is a number that is intended to insure that all ammo works in all guns. OAL listed in load data has little meaning besides that it is the number the publishers used for their data. It really has nothing to do with your particular gun.

kraigwy · November 21, 2011, 08:29 PM

You don't choose OAL from reloading manuals, you choose them for your chamber.

Case in Point. The OAL for 80 grn SMKs listed in the Sierra reloading manual is 2.550. Ok, So I load them to that length. But don't try them. I show up to a HP match shooting 600 yards. You single load, I get about 3 or 4 rounds into the match, load another round and detect a wind change. I pull the round out thinking I'll wait it out. Big Problem. The bullet weas left in the chamber and I dump powder all over the place.

Also having but use to a M1A and zero problems I didn't have a cleaning rod on the line. Neither does anyone else. The trucks are between us and the 300 yard line so I end up eating about 15 rounds, Thats 150 points off the score.

Lesson learned. Go by the chamber not the book, and throw in a cleaning rod in your shooting stool.

oneoldsap · November 21, 2011, 09:28 PM

Just crimp in the Cannelure and you'll be fine ! You do know you have to crimp them ?

Shotgun693 · November 21, 2011, 09:58 PM

Unless you're shooting in a bench rest match or some kinda long range competition then a couple of hundreds of an inch difference in depth isn't going to matter. I use a factory round, with a bullet of the same type and weight I'm loading, to set my die/depth. If I can hit a teacup at 100 yards it's all I need, you too likely.

**44 AMP** · November 21, 2011, 11:35 PM

The manuals are giving you max allowable COAL by industry standards. Round to that length should work through all the common actions for that cartridge.

Some guns are a little more picky. The factory Rem is a little shorter, to ensure smooth working through a variety of rifles.

Seating .30-30 bullets to the cannelure and proper crimping will not exceed the COAL, and likely be a few thousandths shorter, with all the usual bullets on the market.

flashhole · November 22, 2011, 09:08 AM

Seating to the appropriate depth to engage the crimp groove is good advice. Yes, you have to crimp for a lever gun and a roll crimp is best. Lead tip bullets can vary in length and drive you nuts trying to figure out why the loads are not consistent round to round to round. Measuring a relative seating depth off the ogive of the bullet is much better.

My 336 did not like any of the 150 grain bullets I tried. Looked like a shot gun pattern more than a group. I went up to 170 grain bullets and the gun shot one ragged hole.

PA-Joe · November 22, 2011, 09:13 AM

Is the Remington 150 gr. core-lokt you are proposing to use a full flat point or round nosed bullet? If not, you should not be using them in a tube-fed rifle because the point may detonate a primer while in the tube. In addition, the pointed bullet may not feed correctly from your tube. You could reload using the new Hornady flex bullets with the rubber/polymer tips that are specifically designed for tube magazines.

AS noted above, each bullet has it's own shape and the manufactures specify the COL for their specific bullet. You can not interchange this data. So if Remington is loading them to 2.5 then that is what you should use. You should not use the Hornaday, Speer, or Lyman COLs since they are based on a different shape bullet.

higgite · November 22, 2011, 10:21 AM

FWIW, SAAMI spec for 30-30 Win shows a COAL length between 2.450-2.550". The OP's Remington factory ammo measures almost exactly at mid-range.

zeke · November 25, 2011, 10:26 AM

There is a different COL for the Rem 150's , because they are a different bullet than the Sierra and the cannelure is in a different position relative to COL. the Rem 150 is a soft round nose, and is what Rem uses in their fac rounds. It has more bullet length inside the case than a Sierra, so you may want to reduce charges somewhat till you know if that affects velocity (pressure). The Rem 150 30-30 bullet should be seated deep enough so you can crimp in the cannelure.

COL listed in manuals are for specific bullets. Max cols are the longest lenght you should use for any bullet.

November 21, 2011, 07:37 PM	#1
GWV Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Location: Ruffs Dale , PA. Posts: 11	COAL's reloading manuals vs Remington factory for .30-30 Win I am planning on reloading for a Marlin 336, .30-30 Win. I bought a box of Remington 150 gr. Soft Point Core-Lokt bullets and checked the COAL's, and they were from 2.495" to 2.505" in length. The Hornaday,Speer, and Lyman manuals specify 2.540" to 2.550" as their length's for soft point round nose bullets similar to the Rem. core-lokt's. I will be using the Sierra V reloading manual with all their components except for the factory powder, and replacing the sierra bullet with a remington 150 gr. core-lokt. I would like some opinions on what COAL to use. The Factory bullets worked fine in my rifle but the COAL's are shorter than what is specified in the manuals. Why is there such a difference in length's ?

November 21, 2011, 08:16 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,694	You should determine the OAL by measuring the chamber of your gun. Otherwise, use the length listed in the load data for the bullet that you intend to use. OAL listed listed by SAAMI is a number that is intended to insure that all ammo works in all guns. OAL listed in load data has little meaning besides that it is the number the publishers used for their data. It really has nothing to do with your particular gun. __________________ https://ecommercearms.com I am the owner/operator! Ask me for custom prices! No sales tax outside CO!

November 21, 2011, 11:35 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,503	The manuals are giving you max allowable COAL by industry standards. Round to that length should work through all the common actions for that cartridge. Some guns are a little more picky. The factory Rem is a little shorter, to ensure smooth working through a variety of rifles. Seating .30-30 bullets to the cannelure and proper crimping will not exceed the COAL, and likely be a few thousandths shorter, with all the usual bullets on the market. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 22, 2011, 09:08 AM	#7
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Seating to the appropriate depth to engage the crimp groove is good advice. Yes, you have to crimp for a lever gun and a roll crimp is best. Lead tip bullets can vary in length and drive you nuts trying to figure out why the loads are not consistent round to round to round. Measuring a relative seating depth off the ogive of the bullet is much better. My 336 did not like any of the 150 grain bullets I tried. Looked like a shot gun pattern more than a group. I went up to 170 grain bullets and the gun shot one ragged hole. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

November 21, 2011, 08:29 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,060	You don't choose OAL from reloading manuals, you choose them for your chamber. Case in Point. The OAL for 80 grn SMKs listed in the Sierra reloading manual is 2.550. Ok, So I load them to that length. But don't try them. I show up to a HP match shooting 600 yards. You single load, I get about 3 or 4 rounds into the match, load another round and detect a wind change. I pull the round out thinking I'll wait it out. Big Problem. The bullet weas left in the chamber and I dump powder all over the place. Also having but use to a M1A and zero problems I didn't have a cleaning rod on the line. Neither does anyone else. The trucks are between us and the 300 yard line so I end up eating about 15 rounds, Thats 150 points off the score. Lesson learned. Go by the chamber not the book, and throw in a cleaning rod in your shooting stool.

November 21, 2011, 09:28 PM	#4
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	Just crimp in the Cannelure and you'll be fine ! You do know you have to crimp them ?

November 21, 2011, 09:58 PM	#5
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	Unless you're shooting in a bench rest match or some kinda long range competition then a couple of hundreds of an inch difference in depth isn't going to matter. I use a factory round, with a bullet of the same type and weight I'm loading, to set my die/depth. If I can hit a teacup at 100 yards it's all I need, you too likely.

November 22, 2011, 09:13 AM	#8
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Is the Remington 150 gr. core-lokt you are proposing to use a full flat point or round nosed bullet? If not, you should not be using them in a tube-fed rifle because the point may detonate a primer while in the tube. In addition, the pointed bullet may not feed correctly from your tube. You could reload using the new Hornady flex bullets with the rubber/polymer tips that are specifically designed for tube magazines. AS noted above, each bullet has it's own shape and the manufactures specify the COL for their specific bullet. You can not interchange this data. So if Remington is loading them to 2.5 then that is what you should use. You should not use the Hornaday, Speer, or Lyman COLs since they are based on a different shape bullet.

November 22, 2011, 10:21 AM	#9
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,028	FWIW, SAAMI spec for 30-30 Win shows a COAL length between 2.450-2.550". The OP's Remington factory ammo measures almost exactly at mid-range.

November 25, 2011, 10:26 AM	#10
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,759	There is a different COL for the Rem 150's , because they are a different bullet than the Sierra and the cannelure is in a different position relative to COL. the Rem 150 is a soft round nose, and is what Rem uses in their fac rounds. It has more bullet length inside the case than a Sierra, so you may want to reduce charges somewhat till you know if that affects velocity (pressure). The Rem 150 30-30 bullet should be seated deep enough so you can crimp in the cannelure. COL listed in manuals are for specific bullets. Max cols are the longest lenght you should use for any bullet.