what to do with a jam-o-matic

[GUNSNGOLD]

i have a friend that has had a taurus pt145 a while and the thing has never ran right. it will stove pipe and nose dive way too often and he is sick and tired of it. his options are to trade it in to the local shop for $225 or try to sell it for maybee $150 more.

whats the consensious here on selling a horribly jamming weapon, is it bad karma, what other options does he have other than keeping it and dealing with taurus CS.

whats the "best practice" for unloading a weapon of this nature.

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Gunsngold:

Start with the basics: clean, lubricate, and try new magazines. If that fails send it back to Taurus for repair. When I was selling guns I got nothing but good reports on the PT145.


Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

[5whiskey]

I believe in dealing fairly with people. I would not sell it as-is without providing a disclosure. If someone knows up front that it has issues and they pay the price, then you've done your duty.

I would try the gunny's advice. Try a different mag, clean, and lube. If that doesn't work I would go through taurus CS, get it repaired, put a few hundred trouble-free rounds through it, and then off-load it. If you've put enough rounds (at least 250 trouble free) to feel satisfied that the problem is resolved, then I think selling it to another person is fine.

[dalegribble]

i also own a taurus pt-145 and i have never had a single problem with it. i agree with the post above, make sure the gun is cleaned and assembled properly. second, let an experienced semi auto shooter try your gun and see how it works for them. many people limp wrist or otherwise hold semi autos poorly leading to feed or ejection problems that are not the fault of the gun. if your technique is poor a little training will correct those problems.

[GUNSNGOLD]

he has tried everything, he has 4 mags for the gun and has tried many ammo brands. he has over 500 rounds through it, its been broken down , cleaned and lubed up many times. he doesn't want to put any money into this thing, just looking to get out of it at this point.

he asked me what my thought were on selling a knowingly falfuntioning weapon and i told him that i really don't know what i would do. i told him i would probably just trade it in and eat it.

[old bear]

I would try ONE return trip to Taurus. If that does not fix the problem then either trade it in or sell it at a loss. If he does sell it your friend needs to disclose the potential problems.

[BGutzman]

I owned a PT 145, it would not allow the firing pin safety to dis-engage unless you made a specific attempt to pull the trigger to the right...

I simply couldnt trust it for CCW. I also had a PT 845 I loved until it stopped firing reliably, I never did get it figured out and I sold it for a huge loss but at least I was honest.

No more Taurus for me, never ever, never....

[BigJimP]

Its not ethical in my opinion to unload it on someone else.../trading it in to a retail store that deals in used guns ...they probably know what they're buying ...but I don't think my conscience would let me not tell them.

I'd give the customer service a chance ...or let a local gunsmith look at it ..and see if he can clean it up or at least make a recommendation.

I also understand your buddies frustration ...but sometimes you get what you pay for when it comes to guns .../and I think the reputation, at least in my area, on these guns is more like 50/50 ...some good, some not so good...

[oldluke]

As with other Taurus models, there have been reports of issues. You need to try to repair it, have the manufacturer look at it, after 500 rounds there is no reason to hope for an improvement.

[AustinTX]

It's pretty well known that these pistols have frequent issues, but I still wouldn't be able to dump one in good conscience without disclosing its problems. I would start by bugging Taurus CS until they agreed to pay shipping both ways for warranty service.

[Slamfire]

I would try ONE return trip to Taurus. If that does not fix the problem then either trade it in or sell it at a loss. If he does sell it your friend needs to disclose the potential problems.

Trip to Taurus. Maybe they will accept it in trade for another model.

[loose_holster_dan]

while i despise the taurus line, it sure isn't from a firing and feeding reliability standpoint. neither of my taurus semis hardly ever jammed. i think my 92fs clone stove piped once. my 24/7 pro compact never did. they were both terrible for accuracy, but they always fed and fired. if you have trouble with feeding issues that much, don't sell it to anyone you want to remain friends with!

[Stressfire]

My vote would be to trade it in to the shop. No, I wouldn't say its bad karma at all. If they are aware of the problem, they will likely correct it before flipping it.

Different story from selling it off to some unsuspecting person that thinks it functions fine. That's not great for the karma.

[Jeff56]

Wow I've read hundreds of reviews of the PT145 and I've seen more negative reports in this thread than in the entire time I have checked up on the PT145.

The first question is what generation is it? The only known issues with the Gen. 3 models was some of the mags failed to feed correctly. The first 2 generations weren't as good.

I bought a Gen. 3 after doing extensive research and finding mountains of good reviews. I've fired about 5,000 rounds through it and it has never ONCE had an issue and that's with 4 mags and about 40 different types of ammo. It is also extremely accurate within it's normal range. Short barrel autos are going to be limited in how far they shoot accurately. Mine shoots very accurately to 25 yards and minute of man at 40 yards.

For example my friend and shooting buddy once said he wanted to see just how well I could shoot and he stuck 2 empty .45 casings on weeds at 15-20 yards away. He stuck a third one on a weed between 20 and 25 yards. I hit the first two on the first two shots. I never hit the third one but I wasn't missing more than an inch at any time. So mine has never had accuracy issues. More likely your friend has a problem with the sights Taurus chose to put on these pistols. The Straight Eights stink from top to bottom IMO. But once you figure out how to make they work they will get the job done. It's just that they aren't easy to figure out.

Another thing is if your friend has really used all sorts of different lube then that could well be his problem as far as feeding issue go. Some lubes react badly when used with other lubes. I would shoot the pistol completely dry and find out if it still has a problem. In fact I have never lubed my PT145 in the 4 years I've owned it. I did put a dab of grease where I could see the slide was wearing on the rail. It stopped wearing when I did that and I didn't get lube in the rest of the gun.

I have to point out that people who drown pistols with stuff like WD40 are asking for big problems. It gathers powder reside in the oil and it will cause far more problems than it solves. I don't lube any gun unless it really needs it and most don't. I've treated guns that way for almost 50 years now and I've never had a problem with it. I do oil the outside of guns for protection from rust but I make sure the oil doesn't get in the action. If you feel you must oil the action one drop of oil is all you should ever use.

Then there's the home run ball for Taurus. They have a lifetime warranty. I've heard very good things about their CS lately too. At one time they had a bad rep and so did their firearms. But they have tried hard to fix those problems in the past decade plus. I wouldn't trade my Taurus for any CCW on the market. You can't do better than perfect and from my perspective the PT145 is perfect.

[Slugthrower]

Well... We meet again Mr Gold.

Stove pipes come from a few problems. First is recoil spring related and a result of there being too much poundage or just being new. The second is related to a bad extractor. Third is caused by ammuntion that doesn't have enough force behind it to cycle the action fully and the fouth could be related to the damaged ejector in combination with the above.

Nose diving can be caused by bad magazines, wether from damage, weak springs, follower tilt, follower fit, or being dirty or gummy from silly people lubricating either the ammuntion or even the springs. It could even be the mag release not allowing the mag to seat properly and allowing it to move around in the mag well too much. It could also be caused by the particular ammuniton he is using. One other problem, that more than likely could be what is causing the malfunctions in his pistol is a damaged extractor or weak extractor spring.

Not that he did this, but many people wreck their extractors by doing "Bubba Reloads", which is dropping the slide on a round resting in the chamber. Although it might be ok in an emergency, it isn't recommended as it is abusive the the face of the pawl itself and eventually leads to failure.

Since both of his problems could be from the same component, that would be the logical place to start. Only through a process of elimination will he really know.

He could just send the pistol back to Taurus and have them look at it. Then when he gets it back sell it. With a reasonable expectation of them having fixed the pistol and by not testing it he would absolve himself of a guilty conscience. He could test it and possibly find out it still won't work. It would put him back at square one though in regard to getting rid of it in good conscience. No real easy way out on that. A damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

No matter what he is going to take a loss on that Taurus. They never have a good resale and he'll be lucky to get $300 for it used.

Had a PT-140 Mill Pro. It was too fragile IMO from the insanely thin mag well and was replaced. Got $275 for it with 3 extra mags about 6 years ago. It cost $400 brand new with $80 more on mags. Not sure what he paid, but it isn't going to be pretty for him.

He might want to consider not buying another auto pistol. They will all eventually develop feeding problems one way or the other. Maybe a nice revolver made by S&W or Ruger would be an option for him? Although they can have problems too, just not near as common as autos.

[lee n. field]

he has tried everything, he has 4 mags for the gun and has tried many ammo brands. he has over 500 rounds through it, its been broken down , cleaned and lubed up many times. he doesn't want to put any money into this thing, just looking to get out of it at this point.

Check for burrs or bent parts and do some judicious polishing of the feed ramp and breech face.

I'll give him $150 for it.

------edit to add----

Also, let someone else shoot it, to make sure it's not something the the first shooter's technique that's the problem.

Most ethical practice is full disclosure.

[Onward Allusion]

GUNSNGOLD
what to do with a jam-o-matic
i have a friend that has had a taurus pt145 a while and the thing has never ran right. it will stove pipe and nose dive way too often and he is sick and tired of it. his options are to trade it in to the local shop for $225 or try to sell it for maybee $150 more.

whats the consensious here on selling a horribly jamming weapon, is it bad karma, what other options does he have other than keeping it and dealing with taurus CS.

whats the "best practice" for unloading a weapon of this nature.

Best practice is full disclosure. Otherwise, your friend may have a really ****** off buyer or in an extreme case a dead one. Your friend could always send it back to the factory for repair, too.

BTW, a NEW PT145 goes for the low to mid 300's.

[Jeff56]

I paid $325 for my PT145 brand new with an extra mag. The price has gone up though.

Every company lets a lemon out the door once in a while. I'd lean on Taurus until they get it fixed. And I send my guns back through the dealer I bought them from. It costs me nothing and probably gets them fixed quicker. I've only had to send back a couple in my whole life though. And my Taurus wasn't one of them. I was actually looking for a Glock when I was steered toward the Taurus by a LGS owner. I went home and did my homework (I had heard all the nasty stories about Taurus too) and to my surprise a huge percentage of people who owned them loved them. I took my chances (with a month long return policy) and wow am I ever glad I did.

[Doug11606]

I have had very good luck with Taurus customer service. I traded for two Taurus semi auto pistols. Both had issues. I contacted Taurus and they sent me replacement parts no questioned asked and in a timely manner. Not sure if it would have been different had I sent the gun in.
Saying that I'm sure the guy who traded me was real proud of himself trading two problematic firearms for one premium Smith & Wesson firearm. Probably bragged to his buddies. As it turned out I enjoyed working on these two guns and felt good about myself that I was able to turn them into trouble free weapons.
If the guy who traded me has any kind of a conscience, he probably is not too proud of himself right now. Remember Karma is a bitch.

[Master Blaster 2]

I would try ONE return trip to Taurus.

[Master Blaster 2]

say taurus junk

[Adamantium]

If he just sold it outright he would be either committing a lie of commission or omission. Unless of course he fully discloses, but good luck finding a buyer then. I also don't think it is any better to sell it to a gun shop either because they are just going to turn around and sell it to someone also.

Contacting customer service seems like the obvious choice.

Honestly the true shame is the rule that forces private sellers to ship handguns overnight which makes it all but impossible to sell a cheap handgun over the Internet with any sort of return on the initial price. There are people on this and other forums that enjoy fixing guns but a $60-70 shipping bill kind of kills that.

[buckeyedave]

Taurus will back their products and either repair it or replace it. If it's under warranty they will pay shipping both ways.
Dave

[orionengnr]

I have bought more than my share of malfunctioning guns off the net. Everything from several Kel-Tecs to a an Armscor 1911 to Dan Wesson CBOB.

I am continually amazed at how many people will sacrifice their integrity for a few bucks. Or maybe they never had any to start with. Sure pisses me off.

In each case I have fixed (or at least improved function dramatically) and then sold the gun with full disclosure.

Okay, in one case (a Rossi revolver, 20+ years ago) I took a sledge hammer to it and then tossed it in a lake. That was very therapeutic.

And I'm still struggling with the DW. It's too pretty to give up on and too pricey to throw in a lake.

[Adamantium]

I just fought through my Dan Wesson 1911 problems and am sitting at about 1500 rounds trouble free. Whats going on with yours?