Kahr PM9 or Ruger LC9 for carry

checkmyswag · September 29, 2011, 09:10 PM

The Kahr fits my hand much better, but is the Ruger more reliable?

Which pistol would you choose and why?

The PM9 model I'm looking at is the one w/ LCI (don't care about that) and external safety (do want that).

madmag · September 29, 2011, 09:16 PM

I have been looking at both myself. For me It's all about the trigger. I think the Kahr has a better trigger, the Ruger is long and stiff in comparison.....at least in my opinion.

I consider both equal for reliability.

External safety does not mean much to me, my daily carry is a Glock 36 and I do just fine without an external safety. I do have pistols with an external safety and that's ok too, I just don't use it as a decision point.

laytonj1 · September 29, 2011, 09:23 PM

I went with the PM9. Zero malfunctions and I really like the trigger.
Additionally, it's suprisingly accurate.

Jim

Icebergb · September 30, 2011, 01:13 AM

Doesn't seem like to many ppl are high on the kel tec pf9. I just placed an order on one and look forward to testing the crap out of it before it becomes my edc. Need to replace my officers 1911 edc plus ammo is cheaper for the 9mm

5whiskey · September 30, 2011, 01:20 AM

I'd go with the Kahr. I think they're pocket pistols are the best bang for the buck, quality wise.

Rugers would definately be second. I must admit I haven't handled an LC9. I didn't care for the LCP that much though. They're not bad pistols... just didn't like it too much to be honest.

Kel-tecs... for the money I'd get a Kahr CW9, but that's just me.

hickok45 · September 30, 2011, 06:04 AM

I happen to own both and have done video "reviews" of both. The LC9 is a gun I like, and I'm pretty picky when it comes to small carry guns.

The PM9 has been totally reliable for me, despite the fact that you have to chamber the first round the way you do. I still find that a bit concerning, but as long as the little thing keeps shooting once it's hot, I'm okay with it.

The trigger and great feel of the PM9 place it above the LC9 for me. In fact, it keeps the PM9 at the top of the heap for me in this class of firearms. It's the closest thing to a little Glock that I can find until Gaston get moving and makes one. :-)

Hickok45

spodwo · September 30, 2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Doesn't seem like to many ppl are high on the kel tec pf9

If you have shot one of the Keltecs then either of the other two - you would see why that is.....

The Kel Tec 9 is a "hard" shooter. Not comfortable to shoot, bad trigger...

Strictly my opinion.

bikerbill · September 30, 2011, 11:10 AM

Been carrying a PM9 since I got my plastic in '04 and it has NEVER failed since I took it out of the box ... can't recommend it highly enough, a wonderful gun, disappears in a pocket or belt holster, reasonably accurate and quick to reload ... IMHO it's the top small semiauto for SD, when you factor in weight, reliability, capacity and caliber ...

Icebergb · September 30, 2011, 11:27 AM

Hello Hickok45. Really enjoy your youtube channel. Very informative and enjoyable. Can't wait to see what other guns you review and shoot.

michael t · September 30, 2011, 12:26 PM

I own a Kahr CW-9 and a KelTec PF-9 I carry KelTec way more than the Kahr. I don't like the Ruger perfer the KelTec. Its lighter and slighty smaller.

Dr_2_B · September 30, 2011, 02:53 PM

I have decided the PM 9 is just about ideal as a pocket pistol. I rotate probably 15 carry pistols from Glock 23, 27, 30, 36 to H&K P7 to Sig P6 to S&W J frame to Ruger SP 101 to CZ SP 01 to Kel-Tec P11 & PF-9 to others I'm forgetting. I believe a PM 9 I plan on getting may put them all in the safe.

madmag · September 30, 2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hickok45

despite the fact that you have to chamber the first round the way you do.

I have seen your video and I remember you said you have to chamber by releasing the slide lock. Any other way and it jams. That is a concern for me. It seems to point to a border line problem, but I guess if it works when shooting then it's not a big issue........still a concern.

spodwo · September 30, 2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

I have seen your video and I remember you said you have to chamber by releasing the slide lock. Any other way and it jams. That is a concern for me. It seems to point to a border line problem, but I guess if it works when shooting then it's not a big issue........still a concern.

Actually - I can do it the old fashion way. Mine has over 700 rounds and I can rack the slide and chamber a round. Initially - I couldn't do it that way but I can do it 100% of the time now....it loosens up a bit.

srommes · September 30, 2011, 05:14 PM

If you are interested in the PM9, take a look at the CM9 also. If you don't need the polygonal rifling and dovetail front sight of the PM9 you can save yourself a couple hundred dollars with the CM9. I've had mine since April and love it. I've never had a single failure of any sort with it and use it as my edc gun.

Master Blaster 2 · September 30, 2011, 06:07 PM

Another 9mm gun that is only $250 and is reliable and nice to shoot is the SCCY CPX-1 Generation 2 (important a Gen 2)

]

Oldjarhead · September 30, 2011, 07:32 PM

Kahr PM9 hands down. The Kahr cost more, but is better made, has a match grade barrel and after the 200 round break in, very reliable. The Ruger LCP is a good gun, but not a great gun. We are talking Rolls Royce vs. a Chevy. Get the Kahr.

GUNSNGOLD · October 1, 2011, 10:30 PM

i just dumped a jam-o-matic pm40 yesterday and picked up an lc9 today. i had a pm9 that was pretty reliable and i sold it off, replacing it with what i thought would be just as good in a pm40. that thing failed to return to battery and i wouldnt trust it for nothing. i dont like all the saftey doo dads but can live with them if the pistol is reliable also if it werent for the doo dads i wouldn't be able to get one in california.

so thank you ruger for the doo dads and thank you hickok for the lc9 vids.

Marquezj16 · October 1, 2011, 11:08 PM

Never owned or shot a PM9 but I do have the LC9.

LC9 is a breeze to carry, light weight and disappears in IWB/OWB/pocket carry. Accuracy is excellent for such a small pistol. I would classify recoil as snappy but manageable. It has a long trigger pull but it's a nice steady and smooth. I have had one failure to feed (it was a defective ammo) out of 300+ rounds.

Slugthrower · October 2, 2011, 10:56 AM

The PM9 can be loaded from the slide being fully in battery. Kahr recommends people to release the slide by using the slide stop. The reason for this is that people tend to baby their pistols and ride the slide forward. This causes a loss of momentum and by it's very design the pistol has very tight tolerances and a steep feed ramp. Between the magazine pushing the top round hard against the underside of the slide and that some of the early models have very tight extractors, along with the lack of mass in the tiny slide, all add up to the need for as much available force to be released by using the slide stop. If you forcefully snap the slide back and do it with purpose it works. Rack it like you really mean it and it will feed every time. I have owned and carried one for 5 years and love it. It is as accurate in my hands as a full sized service pistol for me.

Some people have encountered a problem with the PM9 not returning fully to battery while shooting. This is not unique to the PM9 alone is not all that uncommon with tiny pocket pistols. Many times people don't post it on the error net as they are reasonable and understand that sometimes a pistol just needs a little tuning. Ask a 1911 guy about how the extractor on those pistols needs to be just right and he'll get you on time with that. My PM9 is an early model and exibited this problem of not returning fully into battery a few times. It was the thickness of rims on my ammuntion and the extractor being a little too tight that caused this. After a little tune up it has been flawless and never been a problem since.

If you do purchase a PM, be advised that you would do well to use a magazine pouch for your spare as they tend to unload themselves it you just toss it into a pants pocket. Otherwise it is fine pistol and has one of the best triggers I have ever used in such a tiny pistol. The LC9 is too much of a rip off of a Kel Tec and if the trigger is anything like the KT, it would not be something I wouldn't want personally. To each his own though.

As far as I know the extractor issue isn't a factor in the latest models as I understand it. So this is one less thing to be concerned about IMO. Either way this is about all I have on this pistol to relate.

GUNSNGOLD · October 2, 2011, 11:16 AM

why should we have to "adjust" an extractor or adjust anything for that matter, maybee 1911's in the 70's and 80's but this is 2011 and i EXPECT my guns to be reliable out of the box. maybee my expectations are too high but if im forking out $700 on a kahr and it dont return to battery its gonna **** me off and it did enough to never return to kahr, same goes for my keltec experience.

i am not opposed to dropping money on guns, i just want them to work, nothing more and nothing less.

Slugthrower · October 2, 2011, 01:05 PM

"why should we have to "adjust" an extractor or adjust anything for that matter, maybee 1911's in the 70's and 80's but this is 2011 and i EXPECT my guns to be reliable out of the box. maybee my expectations are too high but if im forking out $700 on a kahr and it dont return to battery its gonna **** me off and it did enough to never return to kahr, same goes for my keltec experience." GUNSANDGOLD.

Had an SU 16. It was a malfunction king. I corrected that one as well and wore it out. It wasn't worth the $525 I paid for it 5 years ago and neither a loss,but now that it is dead and replacing the barrel is not an option other than a complete factory rebuild I will abstain. Truth be told I'd have been better off buying another CMMG for $750 at the time as it would still be going after 7000 rounds. It was a learning experience if anything. Kel Tec is cheap and I got what I paid for in their regard.

Never said that you did have to adjust the extractor on the Kahr, only that it is a potential problem. I am willing to fix a minor problem with machines as they are made by human hands and therefore subject to human error.

1911s of modern manufacture can still have those same problems today unless you spend 1K plus and if it is a KIMBER you may end up spending more to make it right anyway. Extractors do wear and need to be fixed periodicaly on all firearms. Either way I find the 1911 a worthless pistol to me. It is very much a Harley. It may have personality but it is an under performer for what it does and what it costs it's not worth it. Them are just the facts and fanboys tend to get bent by it. Rode a Harley for many years and know it is not the best it is just pretty like a 1911.

In regard to your problem with your PM40. It is a shame, but you sold it so what is your complaint?

No one forced you to buy that Kahr brand new did they? Maybe if you bought one used for $400 , one that had seen less than a box of ammo so was new anyway and knew something about firearms other than being an end user, you might actually get a bargain in your lifetime.

The factory would have fixed it for you and made it right. Instead you get frustrated and lose your mind over it. In my case I knew the potential of it having teething problems and took the risk. It is called calculation and risk benefit ratio.

Ruger has had quite a few recalls lately with their pistols. Hope that isn't a trend as you may have to throw another pistol away from your lack of patience and willingness to allow the manufacturer to make it right if that pattern persists.

$700 isn't all that much money for a handgun today. If you are a shooter you'll spend more than that in the first year on ammuntion alone. Anyway, this is off point and not contributing to the OP so I digress. As I said to each his own, hope it works out for you.
_________________________________________________________________
Instant gratification and such an expectation is a sure path to frustration. Wisdom comes in time and tempers the soul with patience. Until then the School of Hard Knocks is accepting applications and giving diplomas in Painful Reconciliation.

Roland Thunder · October 5, 2011, 05:03 PM

I also was trying to decide between the Kahr PM9 and the Ruger LC9. The trigger on the PM9 was the deciding factor, so I got a PM9 and haven't regretted it. Also, the PM9 is a little smaller than the LC9 and can be carried in one's pocket, not so with the LC9. I have large hands and so usually I have a problem with the grip of a subcompact gun but the PM9 is easier for me to handle than most gun's it's size.

PM9 +1

TLeo · October 5, 2011, 06:16 PM

My LC9 can be easily pocket carried and do so regularly, but some people don't like the long (much like a revolver's ) trigger pull. It's long but smooth and this pistol is accurate as well. Fits my large hands quite well.

seed · October 5, 2011, 06:56 PM

Excellent post by Slugthrower about the PM9. I would only add that Kahr did some design changes when they made the PM9 to add mass to the slide by adding steel (or rather not milling it away) to the inside. The chamber hood of the barrel is shaped the way it is to accomodate it...this contributed to the peening problems some had.

Anyway, as Slugthrower pointed out, sometimes getting a gun to work takes some tuning by the owner. This should not scare a potential buyer away, especially in a small gun which has little room for tolerance variations. If someone gets a less than 100% reliable gun, they can more often than not get it to be 100% with some patience and minor tweaks. In the end, they will usually be happy they did and also that they learned something about their gun and themselves.

Carry_24/7 · October 5, 2011, 07:03 PM

Slugthrower; you don't like 1911s or Harleys?

Blasphemy!

September 29, 2011, 09:10 PM	#1
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	Kahr PM9 or Ruger LC9 for carry The Kahr fits my hand much better, but is the Ruger more reliable? Which pistol would you choose and why? The PM9 model I'm looking at is the one w/ LCI (don't care about that) and external safety (do want that).

September 30, 2011, 06:07 PM	#15
Master Blaster 2 Junior member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Posts: 895	Another 9mm gun that is only $250 and is reliable and nice to shoot is the SCCY CPX-1 Generation 2 (important a Gen 2) ] Last edited by Master Blaster 2; September 30, 2011 at 06:13 PM.

October 2, 2011, 10:56 AM	#19
Slugthrower Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Posts: 823	The PM9 can be loaded from the slide being fully in battery. Kahr recommends people to release the slide by using the slide stop. The reason for this is that people tend to baby their pistols and ride the slide forward. This causes a loss of momentum and by it's very design the pistol has very tight tolerances and a steep feed ramp. Between the magazine pushing the top round hard against the underside of the slide and that some of the early models have very tight extractors, along with the lack of mass in the tiny slide, all add up to the need for as much available force to be released by using the slide stop. If you forcefully snap the slide back and do it with purpose it works. Rack it like you really mean it and it will feed every time. I have owned and carried one for 5 years and love it. It is as accurate in my hands as a full sized service pistol for me. Some people have encountered a problem with the PM9 not returning fully to battery while shooting. This is not unique to the PM9 alone is not all that uncommon with tiny pocket pistols. Many times people don't post it on the error net as they are reasonable and understand that sometimes a pistol just needs a little tuning. Ask a 1911 guy about how the extractor on those pistols needs to be just right and he'll get you on time with that. My PM9 is an early model and exibited this problem of not returning fully into battery a few times. It was the thickness of rims on my ammuntion and the extractor being a little too tight that caused this. After a little tune up it has been flawless and never been a problem since. If you do purchase a PM, be advised that you would do well to use a magazine pouch for your spare as they tend to unload themselves it you just toss it into a pants pocket. Otherwise it is fine pistol and has one of the best triggers I have ever used in such a tiny pistol. The LC9 is too much of a rip off of a Kel Tec and if the trigger is anything like the KT, it would not be something I wouldn't want personally. To each his own though. As far as I know the extractor issue isn't a factor in the latest models as I understand it. So this is one less thing to be concerned about IMO. Either way this is about all I have on this pistol to relate. Last edited by Slugthrower; October 2, 2011 at 11:09 AM.

October 5, 2011, 05:03 PM	#22
Roland Thunder Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Gwinnett County Georgia Posts: 1,137	I also was trying to decide between the Kahr PM9 and the Ruger LC9. The trigger on the PM9 was the deciding factor, so I got a PM9 and haven't regretted it. Also, the PM9 is a little smaller than the LC9 and can be carried in one's pocket, not so with the LC9. I have large hands and so usually I have a problem with the grip of a subcompact gun but the PM9 is easier for me to handle than most gun's it's size. PM9 +1 __________________ Do not follow where the path may lead, go, instead where there is no path and leave a trail - Ralph Waldo Emerson

September 29, 2011, 09:16 PM	#2
madmag Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2007 Location: The South Posts: 4,239	I have been looking at both myself. For me It's all about the trigger. I think the Kahr has a better trigger, the Ruger is long and stiff in comparison.....at least in my opinion. I consider both equal for reliability. External safety does not mean much to me, my daily carry is a Glock 36 and I do just fine without an external safety. I do have pistols with an external safety and that's ok too, I just don't use it as a decision point.

September 29, 2011, 09:23 PM	#3
laytonj1 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 4,443	I went with the PM9. Zero malfunctions and I really like the trigger. Additionally, it's suprisingly accurate. Jim

September 30, 2011, 01:13 AM	#4
Icebergb Member Join Date: February 16, 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 98	Doesn't seem like to many ppl are high on the kel tec pf9. I just placed an order on one and look forward to testing the crap out of it before it becomes my edc. Need to replace my officers 1911 edc plus ammo is cheaper for the 9mm

September 30, 2011, 01:20 AM	#5
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,753	I'd go with the Kahr. I think they're pocket pistols are the best bang for the buck, quality wise. Rugers would definately be second. I must admit I haven't handled an LC9. I didn't care for the LCP that much though. They're not bad pistols... just didn't like it too much to be honest. Kel-tecs... for the money I'd get a Kahr CW9, but that's just me.

September 30, 2011, 06:04 AM	#6
hickok45 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: Nashville, Tn Posts: 212	I happen to own both and have done video "reviews" of both. The LC9 is a gun I like, and I'm pretty picky when it comes to small carry guns. The PM9 has been totally reliable for me, despite the fact that you have to chamber the first round the way you do. I still find that a bit concerning, but as long as the little thing keeps shooting once it's hot, I'm okay with it. The trigger and great feel of the PM9 place it above the LC9 for me. In fact, it keeps the PM9 at the top of the heap for me in this class of firearms. It's the closest thing to a little Glock that I can find until Gaston get moving and makes one. :-) Hickok45

September 30, 2011, 11:10 AM	#8
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	Been carrying a PM9 since I got my plastic in '04 and it has NEVER failed since I took it out of the box ... can't recommend it highly enough, a wonderful gun, disappears in a pocket or belt holster, reasonably accurate and quick to reload ... IMHO it's the top small semiauto for SD, when you factor in weight, reliability, capacity and caliber ...

September 30, 2011, 11:27 AM	#9
Icebergb Member Join Date: February 16, 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 98	Hello Hickok45. Really enjoy your youtube channel. Very informative and enjoyable. Can't wait to see what other guns you review and shoot.

September 30, 2011, 12:26 PM	#10
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	I own a Kahr CW-9 and a KelTec PF-9 I carry KelTec way more than the Kahr. I don't like the Ruger perfer the KelTec. Its lighter and slighty smaller.

September 30, 2011, 02:53 PM	#11
Dr_2_B Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: midwest Posts: 502	I have decided the PM 9 is just about ideal as a pocket pistol. I rotate probably 15 carry pistols from Glock 23, 27, 30, 36 to H&K P7 to Sig P6 to S&W J frame to Ruger SP 101 to CZ SP 01 to Kel-Tec P11 & PF-9 to others I'm forgetting. I believe a PM 9 I plan on getting may put them all in the safe.

September 30, 2011, 05:14 PM	#14
srommes Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Posts: 58	If you are interested in the PM9, take a look at the CM9 also. If you don't need the polygonal rifling and dovetail front sight of the PM9 you can save yourself a couple hundred dollars with the CM9. I've had mine since April and love it. I've never had a single failure of any sort with it and use it as my edc gun.

September 30, 2011, 07:32 PM	#16
Oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2008 Posts: 515	Kahr PM9 hands down. The Kahr cost more, but is better made, has a match grade barrel and after the 200 round break in, very reliable. The Ruger LCP is a good gun, but not a great gun. We are talking Rolls Royce vs. a Chevy. Get the Kahr.

October 1, 2011, 10:30 PM	#17
GUNSNGOLD Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2011 Location: in a casino Posts: 153	i just dumped a jam-o-matic pm40 yesterday and picked up an lc9 today. i had a pm9 that was pretty reliable and i sold it off, replacing it with what i thought would be just as good in a pm40. that thing failed to return to battery and i wouldnt trust it for nothing. i dont like all the saftey doo dads but can live with them if the pistol is reliable also if it werent for the doo dads i wouldn't be able to get one in california. so thank you ruger for the doo dads and thank you hickok for the lc9 vids.

October 1, 2011, 11:08 PM	#18
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	Never owned or shot a PM9 but I do have the LC9. LC9 is a breeze to carry, light weight and disappears in IWB/OWB/pocket carry. Accuracy is excellent for such a small pistol. I would classify recoil as snappy but manageable. It has a long trigger pull but it's a nice steady and smooth. I have had one failure to feed (it was a defective ammo) out of 300+ rounds.

October 2, 2011, 11:16 AM	#20
GUNSNGOLD Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2011 Location: in a casino Posts: 153	why should we have to "adjust" an extractor or adjust anything for that matter, maybee 1911's in the 70's and 80's but this is 2011 and i EXPECT my guns to be reliable out of the box. maybee my expectations are too high but if im forking out $700 on a kahr and it dont return to battery its gonna **** me off and it did enough to never return to kahr, same goes for my keltec experience. i am not opposed to dropping money on guns, i just want them to work, nothing more and nothing less.

October 2, 2011, 01:05 PM	#21
Slugthrower Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Posts: 823	"why should we have to "adjust" an extractor or adjust anything for that matter, maybee 1911's in the 70's and 80's but this is 2011 and i EXPECT my guns to be reliable out of the box. maybee my expectations are too high but if im forking out $700 on a kahr and it dont return to battery its gonna **** me off and it did enough to never return to kahr, same goes for my keltec experience." GUNSANDGOLD. Had an SU 16. It was a malfunction king. I corrected that one as well and wore it out. It wasn't worth the $525 I paid for it 5 years ago and neither a loss,but now that it is dead and replacing the barrel is not an option other than a complete factory rebuild I will abstain. Truth be told I'd have been better off buying another CMMG for $750 at the time as it would still be going after 7000 rounds. It was a learning experience if anything. Kel Tec is cheap and I got what I paid for in their regard. Never said that you did have to adjust the extractor on the Kahr, only that it is a potential problem. I am willing to fix a minor problem with machines as they are made by human hands and therefore subject to human error. 1911s of modern manufacture can still have those same problems today unless you spend 1K plus and if it is a KIMBER you may end up spending more to make it right anyway. Extractors do wear and need to be fixed periodicaly on all firearms. Either way I find the 1911 a worthless pistol to me. It is very much a Harley. It may have personality but it is an under performer for what it does and what it costs it's not worth it. Them are just the facts and fanboys tend to get bent by it. Rode a Harley for many years and know it is not the best it is just pretty like a 1911. In regard to your problem with your PM40. It is a shame, but you sold it so what is your complaint? No one forced you to buy that Kahr brand new did they? Maybe if you bought one used for $400 , one that had seen less than a box of ammo so was new anyway and knew something about firearms other than being an end user, you might actually get a bargain in your lifetime. The factory would have fixed it for you and made it right. Instead you get frustrated and lose your mind over it. In my case I knew the potential of it having teething problems and took the risk. It is called calculation and risk benefit ratio. Ruger has had quite a few recalls lately with their pistols. Hope that isn't a trend as you may have to throw another pistol away from your lack of patience and willingness to allow the manufacturer to make it right if that pattern persists. $700 isn't all that much money for a handgun today. If you are a shooter you'll spend more than that in the first year on ammuntion alone. Anyway, this is off point and not contributing to the OP so I digress. As I said to each his own, hope it works out for you. _________________________________________________________________ Instant gratification and such an expectation is a sure path to frustration. Wisdom comes in time and tempers the soul with patience. Until then the School of Hard Knocks is accepting applications and giving diplomas in Painful Reconciliation.

October 5, 2011, 06:16 PM	#23
TLeo Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 254	My LC9 can be easily pocket carried and do so regularly, but some people don't like the long (much like a revolver's ) trigger pull. It's long but smooth and this pistol is accurate as well. Fits my large hands quite well.

October 5, 2011, 06:56 PM	#24
seed Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2004 Posts: 411	Excellent post by Slugthrower about the PM9. I would only add that Kahr did some design changes when they made the PM9 to add mass to the slide by adding steel (or rather not milling it away) to the inside. The chamber hood of the barrel is shaped the way it is to accomodate it...this contributed to the peening problems some had. Anyway, as Slugthrower pointed out, sometimes getting a gun to work takes some tuning by the owner. This should not scare a potential buyer away, especially in a small gun which has little room for tolerance variations. If someone gets a less than 100% reliable gun, they can more often than not get it to be 100% with some patience and minor tweaks. In the end, they will usually be happy they did and also that they learned something about their gun and themselves.

October 5, 2011, 07:03 PM	#25
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	Slugthrower; you don't like 1911s or Harleys? Blasphemy!