Took my carry class re-new last Saturday... funny

Magnum Wheel Man · May 23, 2011, 10:01 AM

I was one of two to qualify with a revolver, & I think the 1st this ( particularly good instructor ) ever had qualify with an antique...

funny thing is that my range times were no slower than any of the 9mm's that made up the balance of the class ( since we had to put 5 rounds in each mag, & only using 2 mags, so the shooter had to reload 4 of the mags on the line... & then do 6 mag changes ) I as able to load 5 rounds in my 5 round cylinder & the top break ejected the rounds on to the table in front of me, my reloads were faster than most of those stuffing mags ... I used my snubbie top break S&W #2 ( single action, spur trigger ) in 38 S&W & easily kept all 30 rounds onto the 8.5 X 11" sheet of paper that was the target...

the old gal ( my "everyday" carry gun ) still rocks

2damnold4this · May 23, 2011, 11:37 AM

Nice work.

aarondhgraham · May 23, 2011, 11:45 AM

You should do it with a Cap-&-Ball revolver.

Aarond

jglsprings · May 23, 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Little Bill Daggett - Unforgiven

Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya. It ain't so easy to shoot a man anyhow, especially if the son-of-a-bitch is shootin' back at you.

Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill...

Magnum Wheel Man · May 23, 2011, 12:28 PM

excellent quote

glenncal1 · May 24, 2011, 01:06 PM

On my way home from the range yesterday I had my new to me S&W .32HE in my pocket, loaded with some wad cutters.

Gonna stop a bear? No. Gonna make a scumbag think twice about stealing my stuff? Heck yes.

vostracker · May 25, 2011, 08:30 AM

Magnum: Now that was classic!! Way to go ol' school!!

DPris · May 25, 2011, 02:13 PM

You may have some emotional attachment to that old piece, but it's a poor choice to bet your life on.
The only reason it did so...well...compared to the autos was because of the artificial handicaps the instructor placed on the courses of fire.

Including magazine changes on the line I can see, but forcing participants to load magazines on the clock strikes me as utterly pointless.
Denis

Magnum Wheel Man · May 25, 2011, 02:17 PM

sorry... it was not a timed exercise... I just mentioned it, that they weren't waiting on me, & I shot just as well with the antique...

8shot357 · May 26, 2011, 02:57 AM

Put it on Youtube.com then I'll believe it, after all this is the Internet.

Crazy88Fingers · May 26, 2011, 03:05 AM

You just revived my itch for a top-break. Dang.

Edward429451 · May 26, 2011, 03:01 PM

I believe you. Listen to them pick at you! I appreciate the post and think it is very cool that you qualified with that.

jeepstrapped · May 26, 2011, 03:21 PM

Nice work!

michael t · May 26, 2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

but it's a poor choice to bet your life on.

Why because a old pistol or only 5 shot 38S&W been around for a long time I carried one for a time . About same as 380 ball . I like my 45 and my 1911 But I been known to carry a 38S&W and even a S&W top break Lemon Squeezer 32 short. from early 1900's These rounds were used in SD for a long time before internet and the got to be a mag or start with min of 4 in caliber. Gun boards.

He likes it he shoots it and he carries it. What the problem

DPris · May 26, 2011, 09:29 PM

It's a poor choice to bet your life on.
Period.
Denis

Magnum Wheel Man · May 27, 2011, 08:27 AM

... one mans opinion... & it may be a poor choice for you to bet your life on... but you have no clue about mine...

IMO... it's better than my 32 S&W... no worse than my .380 TCP ( I hand load & chrony these loads... they are pretty darn similar to the 380 )... not quite as good as my 9 or 10 mm's, or my 44 special or my custom 45 Colt... hmm... not sure how it'd "really" fair against my 32 H&R magnum J frame... or my 5.7 X 28 ???

point being... if "you" feel it's not good for "you" to carry... that's just fine... the gun is not for sale... I have many other options to use, yet the 38 S&W straps on my belt more than any other... being a collector & a guy that reloads over 50 different cartridges... I'm confident in my opinion & my proficiency with the weapon, as well as the guns performance, , to me that's all that matters for my personal use... & even if 100's of shooters told me I was stupid for carrying it... it's not going to change my ( qualified ) opinion for my personal use...

I think way too many people get caught up in both capacity & in caliber... ( I have several 50 calibers... both revolvers & semi autos... I suppose I aught to be carrying them

) in reality... this gun has enough penitration with the self defense loads I use ( not my target loads ) that if I can pull this gun, & shoot it acurately & proficiently enough to put 2 bullets in the chest of an attacker, it's going to do it's job... if the bad guy doesn't stop the attack, or there are more than one attacker I'm quite capable of putting the next 2 in the head at normal self defense distances... still leaves leaves one more round for clean up if needed...

BTW... I'm not beating up the high capacity guys... I live a pretty low risk small town life style... but I have a compact 9, a full sized 10, & my 5-seven any of which could accompany me down town "big city" if I felt the need, & that's why they are in my carry battery... but for everyday small town life... my antique S&W suits me just fine... & it's nice to know I can qualify with it as good as I could with one of the more modern guns

Horseless Trooper · May 27, 2011, 08:58 AM

Lucky any of our ancestors survived, saddled with 32 and 38 S&W. Lets not forget the people who carried the rimfires either. No speedloaders either. The classic 32 and 38 revolver cartridges satisfiy the first rule of gunfighting ie. have a gun. TR picked the 32 as the first issue revolver for the NYPD and for many years the 32 and 38 S&W were standard police calibers. Europe soldiered on with the 32 and 380 autos until the 70's and the bad guys did not wipe out the police or citizens. The old classic cartridges and their guns may not be the best choise but they can still save your butt when the SHTF. I will drop a 32 H&R breaktop or my old LLama .32 auto in my pocket if I am just running down to the Big M for chainsaw fuel(PBR) and have been known to carry my Webley MKIV even in the big city. Doesn't worry me much.

Amin Parker · May 27, 2011, 09:47 AM

Kudos to you Magnum Wheel Man.

I have been known to shoot a 50m pistol competition with a pocket pistol and when roaming around carry some weird and wonderful stuff.

I also sometimes shoot events with a severe handicap as far as equipment is concerned, this has taught me something important. If one shoots at 8 targets with a revolver and you have the option of an 8 shot revolver in said competition, by all means use it.

I find myself shooting a 6 shot 686 in the 8 shot events many times because i WANT to shoot that gun. I always shoot better with the gun i crave to shoot. Its no use forcing myself to shoot a gun im not in the mood for.

So i agree with you 100%. Rather carry a gun you know and know how to use than something Tommy Lee said is cool.

DPris · May 27, 2011, 10:07 AM

Way back when, people hunted mammoths with flint-tipped spears and used them for defense against cave bears.
At the time, when that was the best technology available, a flint spear was a good choice.

Today, you'd deliberately choose to hunt an elephant or defend against a bear with a spear just because it "used to work then, why wouldn't it work now?" You'd deliberately choose to stake your life on a long-outdated slow-firing revolver of inferior metallurgy in a very marginal caliber?
Yes, lotsa mammoths died, and bears undoubtedly too, but what were the actual percentages compared to the hunters that died also in the process?

If the nostalgia factor overrides reality for you, it's your choice.
I'm not promoting the hi-cap semi auto as the One True Path, but I do not agree on the other hand that "Any gun is better than no gun". The inherent fallacy of that school of thought is that it can, with an associated selection of inferior armament, give you the false sense of security that you are well armed when in fact you're nothing of the kind.

Should you ever need a gun to stand between you and death, you may very well find suddenly that it won't.
The gun's slow, its metallurgy may fail on the next shot, and the .38 S&W with an RNL bullet, already relatively anemic in terms of terminal effectiveness, is even more so out of that shortened barrel.

Yes, people have died on the wrong end of a .38 S&W.
People have also not died when shot with a modern JHP in the .380 you compare it to.

I hadn't intended to go beyond my first post in this thread, but the idea of others thinking such an approach is sensible, and Michael questioning my statement, caused me to jump back in.

The selection process for a carry gun varies widely. Some choose a particular gun because they think it's cool, some choose one because it's cheap, some because it's one they already had when the permit came through, some because the "experts" love it, and some rotate several because they like several & want to carry them all at one time or another. And then there are those who look carefully at performance (caliber & gun) in real live shootings, consider quality & configuration, mate a gun that combines those with their own lifestyle and abilities, and stick with the one gun that's the most efficient combination of all that as the Betcher Life Tool.

I live in a small town where my threat level's dropped by about 95% since I retired from my last PD.
I still carry an effective and reliable pistol daily. In the tiny 500-inhabitant town my mother lives in, a teenage girl was recently shot by two other teenagers who took offense in a road rage incident. It can happen anywhere.
If & when it ever does, your confidence in your proficiency with that little gun on a slowfire range may result in a very unpleasant eye-opener.

I won't argue it any further.
Your choice is your choice, but the fact remains that your gun is a very poor one for defensive carry.

Denis

Smilin Jack · May 27, 2011, 12:47 PM

"Should you ever need a gun to stand between you and death, you may very well find suddenly that it won't."

THAT pretty much sums it up.....

Rule #1 - Bring a gun
Rule #2 - Bring enough gun

magnumPi · May 27, 2011, 01:22 PM

DPris,
The man feels that it is adequate for him, he is not raiding crack houses, nor is he walking through the ghetto with a sign on him like Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3.
If he feels that he is adequately armed with a classic firearm, let him be. Don't rain on the man's parade. This thread is not about what caliber is the be all, end all in Mall ninja/Tactical self defense. This thread is about a man who has excellant taste in classic firearms enjoying using them.

The day I see my guns as ONLY being a self defence tool, one that must be the maximum effective tool or they're not worthy, is the day I sell my guns and walk away.

Keep enjoying 'em Magnum Wheel Man

DPris · May 27, 2011, 01:58 PM

MPI,
As clarification, no this thread isn't about good taste or enjoying the use of classic firearms, it's about betting a life on an inferior defensive tool.
I have many guns that are here for non-defensive uses & did not say that the only reason for owning a gun is or should be defensive.

Denis

magnumPi · May 27, 2011, 03:53 PM

DPris,
Allow me to make a comparison.
Suppose somebody was posting about how they took their 1955 Chevy to take their drivers license renewal test. They mention that the old car is their daily driver in their quite little town. Everybody on the forum is admiring the old car, and mentioning how they love to take their classic car out onto the roads.
Would you tell them that they shouldn't drive that car, that it doesn't have the safety features of modern cars. That's it's underpowered and has bad gas mileage. Would you essentially call them an ignorant fool, because they were tooling around small town streets in an "inadequate, and unsafe car"? Instead of a modern, fuel efficient, ultra safe, car?
The OP is a grown man, he has experience with firearms, he is very aware of the differences between different guns and calibers. He has made his choice. He is aware that the one he has chosen may not be the top of the heap. He doesn't need you to act like he is an idiot, or a child. It is neither your responsibilty, or business, to insult his judgement and choices. And whether it was intentional or not, that is what you did.
He wasn't asking what was a good choice, he was relating a funny and unique experience of going against the grain, of not being an automaton with yet another piece of Tactical Tupperware.
If you disapprove of his choice, you are entitled to not follow his example. But don't insult his choices and judgement in a rude and condescending manner as if you were his superior.

You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

DPris · May 27, 2011, 04:56 PM

Not condescending, and more concerned with others close to making a similar choice.
He's made his & it's his life.

You keep making non-relevant comparisons. This is not a matter of simply a fondness for old technology, it's a matter of a defensive shield in a life & death situation.
I'm not talking about using a '55 Chebby to go for a Sunday afternoon drive along the coast, I'm talking about a blood & guts in-your-face, kill-or-be killed, slit-your-guts-open, stomp-your-head-in-or-blow-it-off-if-you-don't- have-the-means-to-resist occurance. One that can happen fast, with more than one assailant.

With some exposure to shootings, along with other factors, I consider myself qualified to express an opinion, and if it disagrees with yours, that doesn't make it any less valid.
Yes, he was expressing what he thought was a funny story, but funny stories can often give a newbie an erroneous impression. The immediate impression was that the old hardware was competitive with new, which isn't the case.
Denis

Six_Rounds · May 28, 2011, 02:51 PM

Dpris,

What is it about .38 S&W that you feel makes it a poor choice for self defense?

Are you of the opinion that a handgun round must produce a certain muzzle energy to be an effective stopper? If not, than what is it that you believe is the important concideration in choosing a self defense caliber?

On the subject of metallurgy, are you a machinist, gunsmith, or mechanical engineer? If not, what is it that leads you to believe an old firearm can fail, even when used with appropriate ammunition?

May 23, 2011, 11:45 AM	#3
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Next renewal,,, You should do it with a Cap-&-Ball revolver. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

May 25, 2011, 08:30 AM	#7
vostracker Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 416	Classic Magnum: Now that was classic!! Way to go ol' school!!

May 23, 2011, 11:37 AM	#2
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,607	Nice work.

May 23, 2011, 12:28 PM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	excellent quote

May 24, 2011, 01:06 PM	#6
glenncal1 Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2009 Location: Denver area Posts: 504	On my way home from the range yesterday I had my new to me S&W .32HE in my pocket, loaded with some wad cutters. Gonna stop a bear? No. Gonna make a scumbag think twice about stealing my stuff? Heck yes.

May 25, 2011, 02:13 PM	#8
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	You may have some emotional attachment to that old piece, but it's a poor choice to bet your life on. The only reason it did so...well...compared to the autos was because of the artificial handicaps the instructor placed on the courses of fire. Including magazine changes on the line I can see, but forcing participants to load magazines on the clock strikes me as utterly pointless. Denis

May 25, 2011, 02:17 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	sorry... it was not a timed exercise... I just mentioned it, that they weren't waiting on me, & I shot just as well with the antique...

May 26, 2011, 02:57 AM	#10
8shot357 Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2010 Posts: 1,740	Put it on Youtube.com then I'll believe it, after all this is the Internet.

May 26, 2011, 03:05 AM	#11
Crazy88Fingers Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: WesTex Posts: 958	You just revived my itch for a top-break. Dang.

May 26, 2011, 03:01 PM	#12
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I believe you. Listen to them pick at you! I appreciate the post and think it is very cool that you qualified with that.

May 26, 2011, 03:21 PM	#13
jeepstrapped Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: SD Posts: 141	Nice work!

May 26, 2011, 09:29 PM	#15
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	It's a poor choice to bet your life on. Period. Denis

May 27, 2011, 08:27 AM	#16
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	... one mans opinion... & it may be a poor choice for you to bet your life on... but you have no clue about mine... IMO... it's better than my 32 S&W... no worse than my .380 TCP ( I hand load & chrony these loads... they are pretty darn similar to the 380 )... not quite as good as my 9 or 10 mm's, or my 44 special or my custom 45 Colt... hmm... not sure how it'd "really" fair against my 32 H&R magnum J frame... or my 5.7 X 28 ??? point being... if "you" feel it's not good for "you" to carry... that's just fine... the gun is not for sale... I have many other options to use, yet the 38 S&W straps on my belt more than any other... being a collector & a guy that reloads over 50 different cartridges... I'm confident in my opinion & my proficiency with the weapon, as well as the guns performance, , to me that's all that matters for my personal use... & even if 100's of shooters told me I was stupid for carrying it... it's not going to change my ( qualified ) opinion for my personal use... I think way too many people get caught up in both capacity & in caliber... ( I have several 50 calibers... both revolvers & semi autos... I suppose I aught to be carrying them ) in reality... this gun has enough penitration with the self defense loads I use ( not my target loads ) that if I can pull this gun, & shoot it acurately & proficiently enough to put 2 bullets in the chest of an attacker, it's going to do it's job... if the bad guy doesn't stop the attack, or there are more than one attacker I'm quite capable of putting the next 2 in the head at normal self defense distances... still leaves leaves one more round for clean up if needed... BTW... I'm not beating up the high capacity guys... I live a pretty low risk small town life style... but I have a compact 9, a full sized 10, & my 5-seven any of which could accompany me down town "big city" if I felt the need, & that's why they are in my carry battery... but for everyday small town life... my antique S&W suits me just fine... & it's nice to know I can qualify with it as good as I could with one of the more modern guns

May 27, 2011, 08:58 AM	#17
Horseless Trooper Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2008 Location: Northern N.Y. Posts: 186	Lucky any of our ancestors survived, saddled with 32 and 38 S&W. Lets not forget the people who carried the rimfires either. No speedloaders either. The classic 32 and 38 revolver cartridges satisfiy the first rule of gunfighting ie. have a gun. TR picked the 32 as the first issue revolver for the NYPD and for many years the 32 and 38 S&W were standard police calibers. Europe soldiered on with the 32 and 380 autos until the 70's and the bad guys did not wipe out the police or citizens. The old classic cartridges and their guns may not be the best choise but they can still save your butt when the SHTF. I will drop a 32 H&R breaktop or my old LLama .32 auto in my pocket if I am just running down to the Big M for chainsaw fuel(PBR) and have been known to carry my Webley MKIV even in the big city. Doesn't worry me much.

May 27, 2011, 09:47 AM	#18
Amin Parker Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Posts: 1,118	Kudos to you Magnum Wheel Man. I have been known to shoot a 50m pistol competition with a pocket pistol and when roaming around carry some weird and wonderful stuff. I also sometimes shoot events with a severe handicap as far as equipment is concerned, this has taught me something important. If one shoots at 8 targets with a revolver and you have the option of an 8 shot revolver in said competition, by all means use it. I find myself shooting a 6 shot 686 in the 8 shot events many times because i WANT to shoot that gun. I always shoot better with the gun i crave to shoot. Its no use forcing myself to shoot a gun im not in the mood for. So i agree with you 100%. Rather carry a gun you know and know how to use than something Tommy Lee said is cool.

May 27, 2011, 10:07 AM	#19
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Way back when, people hunted mammoths with flint-tipped spears and used them for defense against cave bears. At the time, when that was the best technology available, a flint spear was a good choice. Today, you'd deliberately choose to hunt an elephant or defend against a bear with a spear just because it "used to work then, why wouldn't it work now?" You'd deliberately choose to stake your life on a long-outdated slow-firing revolver of inferior metallurgy in a very marginal caliber? Yes, lotsa mammoths died, and bears undoubtedly too, but what were the actual percentages compared to the hunters that died also in the process? If the nostalgia factor overrides reality for you, it's your choice. I'm not promoting the hi-cap semi auto as the One True Path, but I do not agree on the other hand that "Any gun is better than no gun". The inherent fallacy of that school of thought is that it can, with an associated selection of inferior armament, give you the false sense of security that you are well armed when in fact you're nothing of the kind. Should you ever need a gun to stand between you and death, you may very well find suddenly that it won't. The gun's slow, its metallurgy may fail on the next shot, and the .38 S&W with an RNL bullet, already relatively anemic in terms of terminal effectiveness, is even more so out of that shortened barrel. Yes, people have died on the wrong end of a .38 S&W. People have also not died when shot with a modern JHP in the .380 you compare it to. I hadn't intended to go beyond my first post in this thread, but the idea of others thinking such an approach is sensible, and Michael questioning my statement, caused me to jump back in. The selection process for a carry gun varies widely. Some choose a particular gun because they think it's cool, some choose one because it's cheap, some because it's one they already had when the permit came through, some because the "experts" love it, and some rotate several because they like several & want to carry them all at one time or another. And then there are those who look carefully at performance (caliber & gun) in real live shootings, consider quality & configuration, mate a gun that combines those with their own lifestyle and abilities, and stick with the one gun that's the most efficient combination of all that as the Betcher Life Tool. I live in a small town where my threat level's dropped by about 95% since I retired from my last PD. I still carry an effective and reliable pistol daily. In the tiny 500-inhabitant town my mother lives in, a teenage girl was recently shot by two other teenagers who took offense in a road rage incident. It can happen anywhere. If & when it ever does, your confidence in your proficiency with that little gun on a slowfire range may result in a very unpleasant eye-opener. I won't argue it any further. Your choice is your choice, but the fact remains that your gun is a very poor one for defensive carry. Denis

May 27, 2011, 12:47 PM	#20
Smilin Jack Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2009 Location: West Florida Republic Posts: 131	"Should you ever need a gun to stand between you and death, you may very well find suddenly that it won't." THAT pretty much sums it up..... Rule #1 - Bring a gun Rule #2 - Bring enough gun

May 27, 2011, 01:22 PM	#21
magnumPi Member Join Date: July 26, 2010 Posts: 66	DPris, The man feels that it is adequate for him, he is not raiding crack houses, nor is he walking through the ghetto with a sign on him like Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3. If he feels that he is adequately armed with a classic firearm, let him be. Don't rain on the man's parade. This thread is not about what caliber is the be all, end all in Mall ninja/Tactical self defense. This thread is about a man who has excellant taste in classic firearms enjoying using them. The day I see my guns as ONLY being a self defence tool, one that must be the maximum effective tool or they're not worthy, is the day I sell my guns and walk away. Keep enjoying 'em Magnum Wheel Man

May 27, 2011, 01:58 PM	#22
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	MPI, As clarification, no this thread isn't about good taste or enjoying the use of classic firearms, it's about betting a life on an inferior defensive tool. I have many guns that are here for non-defensive uses & did not say that the only reason for owning a gun is or should be defensive. Denis

May 27, 2011, 03:53 PM	#23
magnumPi Member Join Date: July 26, 2010 Posts: 66	DPris, Allow me to make a comparison. Suppose somebody was posting about how they took their 1955 Chevy to take their drivers license renewal test. They mention that the old car is their daily driver in their quite little town. Everybody on the forum is admiring the old car, and mentioning how they love to take their classic car out onto the roads. Would you tell them that they shouldn't drive that car, that it doesn't have the safety features of modern cars. That's it's underpowered and has bad gas mileage. Would you essentially call them an ignorant fool, because they were tooling around small town streets in an "inadequate, and unsafe car"? Instead of a modern, fuel efficient, ultra safe, car? The OP is a grown man, he has experience with firearms, he is very aware of the differences between different guns and calibers. He has made his choice. He is aware that the one he has chosen may not be the top of the heap. He doesn't need you to act like he is an idiot, or a child. It is neither your responsibilty, or business, to insult his judgement and choices. And whether it was intentional or not, that is what you did. He wasn't asking what was a good choice, he was relating a funny and unique experience of going against the grain, of not being an automaton with yet another piece of Tactical Tupperware. If you disapprove of his choice, you are entitled to not follow his example. But don't insult his choices and judgement in a rude and condescending manner as if you were his superior. You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

May 27, 2011, 04:56 PM	#24
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Not condescending, and more concerned with others close to making a similar choice. He's made his & it's his life. You keep making non-relevant comparisons. This is not a matter of simply a fondness for old technology, it's a matter of a defensive shield in a life & death situation. I'm not talking about using a '55 Chebby to go for a Sunday afternoon drive along the coast, I'm talking about a blood & guts in-your-face, kill-or-be killed, slit-your-guts-open, stomp-your-head-in-or-blow-it-off-if-you-don't- have-the-means-to-resist occurance. One that can happen fast, with more than one assailant. With some exposure to shootings, along with other factors, I consider myself qualified to express an opinion, and if it disagrees with yours, that doesn't make it any less valid. Yes, he was expressing what he thought was a funny story, but funny stories can often give a newbie an erroneous impression. The immediate impression was that the old hardware was competitive with new, which isn't the case. Denis

May 28, 2011, 02:51 PM	#25
Six_Rounds Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 59	Dpris, What is it about .38 S&W that you feel makes it a poor choice for self defense? Are you of the opinion that a handgun round must produce a certain muzzle energy to be an effective stopper? If not, than what is it that you believe is the important concideration in choosing a self defense caliber? On the subject of metallurgy, are you a machinist, gunsmith, or mechanical engineer? If not, what is it that leads you to believe an old firearm can fail, even when used with appropriate ammunition?