Powder for 357 Magnum

crazyjake · August 7, 2016, 03:40 PM

Researching powders for 357. Loading for Chiappa Rhino 40DS. Using extreme 158gr SWC. Have narrowed it down to 3 powders: 2400, AA No7 and Blue Dot. All load data I've found has been based on 6,8 or 10 inch barrels. What differences could I expect in velocity and pressure in the shorter barrel. Thanks for any help in advance.

Nick_C_S · August 7, 2016, 04:43 PM

Welcome to TFL.

I'm curious why/how you've narrowed it down to the three propellants mentioned? Of those three, AA#7 is the obvious choice to me. 2400 is a bit slow for the barrel length (4"? . . . correct me if I'm wrong); and Blue Dot is - well - Blue Dot.

If I was the one in this situation, I'd go with Power Pistol. It's the correct burn rate for the application, in my opinion, at least. AA#7 and Blue Dot are okay too; but they'd be a bit . . . thrusty. And 2400 would be very flashy with lots of thrust recoil - it's really better suited for longer barrels.

Generally - and there's a lot of variables - you'll give up about 50 to 75 f/s in velocity from a 6" to a 4" bbl. And about another 70 from 4" to 3". Going the other direction, anything more than a 6" barrel yields diminishing returns. The barrel/cylinder gap delivers and increasing velocity penalty as the barrel lengthens.

I have 357 mag 686's in 3", 4", and 8-3/8" bbl lengths. The 8" bbl rarely delivers more than 100 f/s than the 4". And actually delivers less velocity in many lighter 38 Special loads.

Chaz88 · August 7, 2016, 05:14 PM

I would also do some more looking. I use a fair amount of 2400 but it is flashy even in longer barrels and performs better in mid range to hot loads, in my experience. A lighter load of 2400 produced the only sqib I have ever loaded. I tightened the crimp and fixed the problem.

boondocker385 · August 7, 2016, 05:27 PM

Of the powders listed I would use Aa7. ..I have have used 700x with good success in short barrel 357....won't provide max velocity, but burns well and consistently....

zxcvbob · August 7, 2016, 06:16 PM

I really like AA#7 and Herco with cast bullets. I never found a .357 load that I liked using Blue Dot.

crazyjake · August 7, 2016, 06:33 PM

Looking through the Sierra, Nosler, Lee and Pet Loads books was looking at accuracy, velocity and pressures. Wanting to keep case volume near 80-90%. Some of the other powders mentioned in the manuals are hard to get ahold of yet. Hadn't looked at flash yet. Barrel location on the Chiappa (bottom of cylinder) has reduced muzzle flip and recoil. Have the Blue Dot but don't use it much anymore.

Dufus · August 7, 2016, 06:37 PM

I have loaded and shot 2400 in short barreled 357. Expect a flame of no less than 2 feet.

Don't get me wrong, because I like 2400 in several calibers.

Try your AA #7 and forget the Blue Dot.

AA #9 is also good if you run across some.

Kenrh · August 7, 2016, 07:58 PM

Today I'm mostly using AA #9 in my 357, with the Xtreme 158 SWC, but have also used AA #7 with good results.
My pet loads are #9 @ 11.7 gr shooting for accuracy in my GP100, and #7 @ 10.6 gr , which is a hot load, with fair results.
Remember that the Xtreme 158 SWC are not the 'heavy plate' variety like their 158 HP's, and are better shot at moderately lower velocity for the 357 magnum.

After years of trying so many powders, AA works the best, and meters the best for me. But then I only shoot for steel and paper targets.

ligonierbill · August 7, 2016, 08:09 PM

My 4" GP-100 does best shooting 158s over AA#9, but H110 and 300-MP do well also. With 125s, 300-MP is the only powder that matches commercial 125 defense loads in mine.

stubbicatt · August 8, 2016, 01:01 PM

It has been years since I loaded #7, and don't remember any adverse results.

For myself, I choose the 2400 of the choices listed. I do this because I load my 357 magnums for both lever rifle and revolver, and I find that it performs very well in the 20" rifle. It performs as well as I can shoot it in the revolver.

But then I like what I call versatile powders... those which can be used in a number of applications. I can use 2400 in 32-40, and it loves the stuff, in 357 magnum, 44 magnum, and in 30-30 cast bullet loads.

I think that Chiappa looks super cool. I considered it for awhile when I chose instead the S&W L-Comp.

849ACSO · August 8, 2016, 02:51 PM

I normally run H110, but I've also had good luck with cast and blue dot in longer barrels. A lot of folks will steer you away from Blue Dot, but it's worked well for me.

Salmoneye · August 8, 2016, 04:53 PM

No love for 4227, huh?

As for AA#7, my Hornady #4 Manual says that AA#9 will get you faster, but I have never tried it...

I have tried 4227 and H110, and like both in .357 for mag loads...

SHR970 · August 8, 2016, 05:48 PM

Velocity: Blue Dot and AA#7 will be a bit faster than 2400 with B.D. & #7 pretty close to each other.

Behavior: Blue Dot gets 'Spikey' in the pressure curve; when you hit max you hit it hard and fast. #7 & 2400 are much more forgiving. In my experience #7 downloads the best of the three.

In a shorter barrel, Blue Dot and 2400 will give a spectacular light show especially in low light. Some of the most brilliant fireballs I have created at an indoor range was with Blue Dot in my SP101.

For me it is #7 all the way.

briandg · August 8, 2016, 05:59 PM

that's funny that you recommend power pistol over blue dot, I have a jug of power pistol, went through data, and wound up buying blue dot instead, because I came to the conclusion that blue dot would make a better low level load than PP. Maybe I was mistaken. In any case, I now have plenty of blue to work with for a long time, and plenty of PP to work with as well.

If I was trying to wring every last bit of power out of it, well, it's going to be a whole new story.

zxcvbob · August 8, 2016, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Behavior: Blue Dot gets 'Spikey' in the pressure curve; when you hit max you hit it hard and fast.

I've blown the heads clean off of cases by going a little too high with Blue Dot.

It might be fine with jacketed bullets and staying below max. I was shooting cast bullets and never found a good load -- that may have been me rather than the powder. I finally gave up on BD and decided to burn up the last few ounces in .45 Colts, and the first load I tried was wonderful in that cartridge.

AA#7 is like Blue Dot without the drama.

buck460XVR · August 8, 2016, 06:32 PM

Seriously, I think any of the powders you have will work. Which one works best for your projectiles in your gun is something you'll have to find out for yourself. As for the difference in pressure and velocity from a shorter barrel, With a revolver you have throats and a cylinder gap to consider also. The little bit of velocity lost going to a 4 inch from a 6 inch barrel(BBTI shows about 80fps with a 158gr pill) will be very similar and is unavoidable regardless of which powder you use. Focus on accuracy more so than velocity.

THEWELSHM · August 8, 2016, 07:30 PM

I load A#9 & 2400.. Good to go.

thewelshm

briandg · August 8, 2016, 11:03 PM

What I learn every time I buy a new powder is that every one of them can be problematic in some cartridges, and without fail, I get the one that looks real good on paper but doesn't work well at all. Got trap 100 a long time ago for .38 wadcutters, looked good on paper, but the gun looked like it had been stuck in a coal bin afterwards.

TimSr · August 10, 2016, 02:14 PM

I've not used 2400 or AA7, but have used Blue Dot extensively. I haven't experienced the "spikiness" I've read about on the internet, but it performs a little better and much cleaner than Unique with 158gr SWCs full power loads. I'm shooting from a 6" GP100. It does give a nice white flash. If you have some, give it a try, and see if you like it. It's not what I would suggest to go out and buy just for .357, but if you have it, it works pretty good.

Alliant posts warning about using it with 125gr bullets for reasons yet unknown.

From the powders I have used, if you were going for something versatile for a wide range of 357/38 loads I'd suggest Unique. If you are looking at something specifically for full power performance, you have to go to 110/296, MP-300 or 4227 to really get there.

briandg · August 10, 2016, 07:32 PM

regardng blue dot, I found a new one from accurate callled true blue. Didn't read up a lot, but it seemed to be a blue dot equivalent, maybe. Anyone used it?

Sevens · August 10, 2016, 07:49 PM

True Blue is not Accurate, it is a RamShot powder, which is perhaps a sister company to Accurate under the Western Powders umbrella. Most folks report good experiences with all RamShot powders, I have not used any myself. I think there are two things worth noting here -- it's rare that a new to market powder is a direct equivalent to something genuinely old and long established... in this case, Blue Dot, which is ancient and old-tech. Also, I believe that all the powders under the RamShot brand are (fairly) newly developed, True Blue amongst them. They may share "Blue" but it defies logic to suggest they share anything else.

I also have to point out that I find it funny that every time a few folks try to steer someone away from Blue Dot, some long time Blue Dot user gets mildly offended. Cute reference to "stuff I heard on the internet yet never experienced..." almost as if the whole stupid internet has an active conspiracy against crappy Blue Dot.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · August 10, 2016, 08:11 PM

When I had my L frame 357. Winchester 296 was my preferred w/ jacketed Rifle or pistol. Win 231 for lead cast loading's was another.

One thing in common 296 has with AA#7. Muzzle flash galore with pistol use . If you can over look the flash part. All three powders are great choices for the 357 from 125 gr up to 158 gr..
AA # 9 on the other hand requires a heavy crimp on light weight bullets which reduces a brass's longevity.
Something I found necessary with #9 use. Magnum primers. AA-#9 is quite similar to Hodgdon's H-110 in performance and requirements. Frankly: #9 is a powder I think better suited for big bore magnum cartridges. 44 Mag and such due to heavier bullet weights use.

SHR970 · August 10, 2016, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Something I found necessary with #9 use. Magnum primers. AA-#9 is quite similar to Hodgdon's H-110 in performance and requirements. Frankly: #9 is a powder I think better suited for big bore magnum cartridges.

I gave my answer based on the three powders listed AND my personal experience with them. That said.. here is MY take on AA#9. It gives up NOTHING to W296 / H110...has less flash, downloads a heck of a lot better AND Does Not Require Magnum Primers. I can recite my pet load with AA#9 and Xtreme 158 gr. bullets..they are full throttle. CCI and WSP are the preferred primers but Fed will do.

Now to the three powders listed.....I gave my nod and my reasons. YMMV. To thge OP.....how many others laid out the pros. and cons? Yeah.. the original question.

xandi · August 10, 2016, 09:18 PM

I like blue dot for 158 grain bullets
10 gr and a spp makes for a really pleasent load(on the hand)
It isn't realy good for 125 gr bullets or super soft loads

briandg · August 10, 2016, 11:21 PM

sevens, online conspiracies are legion and make no sense, but they certainly bring out the emotional responses.

Maybe there is some sort of conspiracy against blue dot. We don't know. But, any yabbo with a keyboard is entitled to post great theories about how the democrats are responsible for the creation of blue dot, or the fact that red and green dot are made out of last years christmas cookies.

It genuinely concerns me, some of the things that a person can post on the internet and create his own cult.

August 7, 2016, 03:40 PM	#1
crazyjake Junior Member Join Date: August 6, 2016 Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA Posts: 3	Powder for 357 Magnum Researching powders for 357. Loading for Chiappa Rhino 40DS. Using extreme 158gr SWC. Have narrowed it down to 3 powders: 2400, AA No7 and Blue Dot. All load data I've found has been based on 6,8 or 10 inch barrels. What differences could I expect in velocity and pressure in the shorter barrel. Thanks for any help in advance.

August 7, 2016, 04:43 PM	#2
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,616	Welcome to TFL. I'm curious why/how you've narrowed it down to the three propellants mentioned? Of those three, AA#7 is the obvious choice to me. 2400 is a bit slow for the barrel length (4"? . . . correct me if I'm wrong); and Blue Dot is - well - Blue Dot. If I was the one in this situation, I'd go with Power Pistol. It's the correct burn rate for the application, in my opinion, at least. AA#7 and Blue Dot are okay too; but they'd be a bit . . . thrusty. And 2400 would be very flashy with lots of thrust recoil - it's really better suited for longer barrels. Generally - and there's a lot of variables - you'll give up about 50 to 75 f/s in velocity from a 6" to a 4" bbl. And about another 70 from 4" to 3". Going the other direction, anything more than a 6" barrel yields diminishing returns. The barrel/cylinder gap delivers and increasing velocity penalty as the barrel lengthens. I have 357 mag 686's in 3", 4", and 8-3/8" bbl lengths. The 8" bbl rarely delivers more than 100 f/s than the 4". And actually delivers less velocity in many lighter 38 Special loads. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

August 7, 2016, 06:16 PM	#5
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I really like AA#7 and Herco with cast bullets. I never found a .357 load that I liked using Blue Dot. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 7, 2016, 07:58 PM	#8
Kenrh Junior Member Join Date: July 2, 2014 Posts: 10	Today I'm mostly using AA #9 in my 357, with the Xtreme 158 SWC, but have also used AA #7 with good results. My pet loads are #9 @ 11.7 gr shooting for accuracy in my GP100, and #7 @ 10.6 gr , which is a hot load, with fair results. Remember that the Xtreme 158 SWC are not the 'heavy plate' variety like their 158 HP's, and are better shot at moderately lower velocity for the 357 magnum. After years of trying so many powders, AA works the best, and meters the best for me. But then I only shoot for steel and paper targets. Last edited by Kenrh; August 7, 2016 at 08:07 PM.

August 8, 2016, 02:51 PM	#11
849ACSO Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2014 Location: Somewhere in the middle Posts: 631	I normally run H110, but I've also had good luck with cast and blue dot in longer barrels. A lot of folks will steer you away from Blue Dot, but it's worked well for me. __________________ "The day you stop learning SHOULD directly coincide with the day you stop breathing."

August 7, 2016, 05:14 PM	#3
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 1,243	I would also do some more looking. I use a fair amount of 2400 but it is flashy even in longer barrels and performs better in mid range to hot loads, in my experience. A lighter load of 2400 produced the only sqib I have ever loaded. I tightened the crimp and fixed the problem.

August 7, 2016, 05:27 PM	#4
boondocker385 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2013 Posts: 640	Of the powders listed I would use Aa7. ..I have have used 700x with good success in short barrel 357....won't provide max velocity, but burns well and consistently....

August 7, 2016, 06:33 PM	#6
crazyjake Junior Member Join Date: August 6, 2016 Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA Posts: 3	Looking through the Sierra, Nosler, Lee and Pet Loads books was looking at accuracy, velocity and pressures. Wanting to keep case volume near 80-90%. Some of the other powders mentioned in the manuals are hard to get ahold of yet. Hadn't looked at flash yet. Barrel location on the Chiappa (bottom of cylinder) has reduced muzzle flip and recoil. Have the Blue Dot but don't use it much anymore.

August 7, 2016, 06:37 PM	#7
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,967	I have loaded and shot 2400 in short barreled 357. Expect a flame of no less than 2 feet. Don't get me wrong, because I like 2400 in several calibers. Try your AA #7 and forget the Blue Dot. AA #9 is also good if you run across some.

August 7, 2016, 08:09 PM	#9
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,643	My 4" GP-100 does best shooting 158s over AA#9, but H110 and 300-MP do well also. With 125s, 300-MP is the only powder that matches commercial 125 defense loads in mine.

August 8, 2016, 01:01 PM	#10
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	It has been years since I loaded #7, and don't remember any adverse results. For myself, I choose the 2400 of the choices listed. I do this because I load my 357 magnums for both lever rifle and revolver, and I find that it performs very well in the 20" rifle. It performs as well as I can shoot it in the revolver. But then I like what I call versatile powders... those which can be used in a number of applications. I can use 2400 in 32-40, and it loves the stuff, in 357 magnum, 44 magnum, and in 30-30 cast bullet loads. I think that Chiappa looks super cool. I considered it for awhile when I chose instead the S&W L-Comp.

August 8, 2016, 04:53 PM	#12
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	No love for 4227, huh? As for AA#7, my Hornady #4 Manual says that AA#9 will get you faster, but I have never tried it... I have tried 4227 and H110, and like both in .357 for mag loads...

August 8, 2016, 05:48 PM	#13
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Velocity: Blue Dot and AA#7 will be a bit faster than 2400 with B.D. & #7 pretty close to each other. Behavior: Blue Dot gets 'Spikey' in the pressure curve; when you hit max you hit it hard and fast. #7 & 2400 are much more forgiving. In my experience #7 downloads the best of the three. In a shorter barrel, Blue Dot and 2400 will give a spectacular light show especially in low light. Some of the most brilliant fireballs I have created at an indoor range was with Blue Dot in my SP101. For me it is #7 all the way.

August 8, 2016, 05:59 PM	#14
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	that's funny that you recommend power pistol over blue dot, I have a jug of power pistol, went through data, and wound up buying blue dot instead, because I came to the conclusion that blue dot would make a better low level load than PP. Maybe I was mistaken. In any case, I now have plenty of blue to work with for a long time, and plenty of PP to work with as well. If I was trying to wring every last bit of power out of it, well, it's going to be a whole new story.

August 8, 2016, 06:32 PM	#16
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Seriously, I think any of the powders you have will work. Which one works best for your projectiles in your gun is something you'll have to find out for yourself. As for the difference in pressure and velocity from a shorter barrel, With a revolver you have throats and a cylinder gap to consider also. The little bit of velocity lost going to a 4 inch from a 6 inch barrel(BBTI shows about 80fps with a 158gr pill) will be very similar and is unavoidable regardless of which powder you use. Focus on accuracy more so than velocity.

August 8, 2016, 07:30 PM	#17
THEWELSHM Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2015 Location: Brandon Fl Posts: 238	I load A#9 & 2400.. Good to go. thewelshm

August 8, 2016, 11:03 PM	#18
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	What I learn every time I buy a new powder is that every one of them can be problematic in some cartridges, and without fail, I get the one that looks real good on paper but doesn't work well at all. Got trap 100 a long time ago for .38 wadcutters, looked good on paper, but the gun looked like it had been stuck in a coal bin afterwards.

August 10, 2016, 02:14 PM	#19
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I've not used 2400 or AA7, but have used Blue Dot extensively. I haven't experienced the "spikiness" I've read about on the internet, but it performs a little better and much cleaner than Unique with 158gr SWCs full power loads. I'm shooting from a 6" GP100. It does give a nice white flash. If you have some, give it a try, and see if you like it. It's not what I would suggest to go out and buy just for .357, but if you have it, it works pretty good. Alliant posts warning about using it with 125gr bullets for reasons yet unknown. From the powders I have used, if you were going for something versatile for a wide range of 357/38 loads I'd suggest Unique. If you are looking at something specifically for full power performance, you have to go to 110/296, MP-300 or 4227 to really get there.

August 10, 2016, 07:32 PM	#20
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	regardng blue dot, I found a new one from accurate callled true blue. Didn't read up a lot, but it seemed to be a blue dot equivalent, maybe. Anyone used it?

August 10, 2016, 07:49 PM	#21
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	True Blue is not Accurate, it is a RamShot powder, which is perhaps a sister company to Accurate under the Western Powders umbrella. Most folks report good experiences with all RamShot powders, I have not used any myself. I think there are two things worth noting here -- it's rare that a new to market powder is a direct equivalent to something genuinely old and long established... in this case, Blue Dot, which is ancient and old-tech. Also, I believe that all the powders under the RamShot brand are (fairly) newly developed, True Blue amongst them. They may share "Blue" but it defies logic to suggest they share anything else. I also have to point out that I find it funny that every time a few folks try to steer someone away from Blue Dot, some long time Blue Dot user gets mildly offended. Cute reference to "stuff I heard on the internet yet never experienced..." almost as if the whole stupid internet has an active conspiracy against crappy Blue Dot. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 10, 2016, 08:11 PM	#22
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	When I had my L frame 357. Winchester 296 was my preferred w/ jacketed Rifle or pistol. Win 231 for lead cast loading's was another. One thing in common 296 has with AA#7. Muzzle flash galore with pistol use . If you can over look the flash part. All three powders are great choices for the 357 from 125 gr up to 158 gr.. AA # 9 on the other hand requires a heavy crimp on light weight bullets which reduces a brass's longevity. Something I found necessary with #9 use. Magnum primers. AA-#9 is quite similar to Hodgdon's H-110 in performance and requirements. Frankly: #9 is a powder I think better suited for big bore magnum cartridges. 44 Mag and such due to heavier bullet weights use.

August 10, 2016, 09:18 PM	#24
xandi Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2015 Location: ga Posts: 321	I like blue dot for 158 grain bullets 10 gr and a spp makes for a really pleasent load(on the hand) It isn't realy good for 125 gr bullets or super soft loads

August 10, 2016, 11:21 PM	#25
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	sevens, online conspiracies are legion and make no sense, but they certainly bring out the emotional responses. Maybe there is some sort of conspiracy against blue dot. We don't know. But, any yabbo with a keyboard is entitled to post great theories about how the democrats are responsible for the creation of blue dot, or the fact that red and green dot are made out of last years christmas cookies. It genuinely concerns me, some of the things that a person can post on the internet and create his own cult.