What causes a revolver to go out of time?

Libertad · February 28, 2011, 12:04 PM

I'm sure there are older threads asking this same question, but I had a hard time searching for them. Feel free to link me to an adequate prior explanation if you know of one.
What makes a revolver go out of time? Is there anything I should do after shooting to preserve good timing of my double action? (I have a GP100)
Thanks in advance, all. I haven't had any problems yet, I just want your input on how to keep it that way

hardworker · February 28, 2011, 12:13 PM

It's just wear and tear from years and years of use. The gp100 ought to be able to withstand more ammo than you could afford to put through it though.

Andy Taylor · February 28, 2011, 12:23 PM

As hardworker said, wear and tear.
You have a GP100 which is about as stout as a DA revolver can be. I suspect you would wear out your trigger finger before you would experience timing issues with a GP100.

GP100man · February 28, 2011, 12:23 PM

There are 2 basiccauses of a revolver going OOT

1. WEAR as parts wear they fail to move the oposing parts to the correct position, mainly the ejector & pawl , trigger& hammer DA/SA sears

2. ABUSE as we read & enjoy the forums every one likes & does "dryfire" there revolvers to some extent or very fast DA/SA shooting , it takes it`s toll on parts , to get em moving & to stop em !

Rugers are over engineered for sure & it`s a blessing as well as a curse it takes alot to move the big heavy cyls then to stop em !!

The trick is to over engineer the critical parts that do this So they don`t break or wear excessively !!

Ruger has done their part , The Rest is up to the shooter , how much we shoot & how !!!

In my opinion the average shooter or wknd. tournamet shooter will be served many yrs of service from the Ruger revolver platforms !!!

Kreyzhorse · February 28, 2011, 12:53 PM

Shoot it and take care of it. As mentioned wear and abuse can cause it to go out of time but that Ruger should out last you.

**Mike Irwin** · February 28, 2011, 01:02 PM

The specific parts involved in a revolver going out of time are most often either the hand, which indexes the cylinder, or the notches/studs on the cylinder ratchet (which the hand bears on).

Very rapid fire double action shooting can be very tough on these parts, especially in large-frame revolvers because of the mass of the cylinder.

MrBorland · February 28, 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

every one likes & does "dryfire" there revolvers to some extent or very fast DA/SA shooting , it takes it`s toll on parts , to get em moving & to stop em !

Rapid DA fire doesn't have to add as much wear and tear that it often does. Much depends on how smoothly the trigger is pulled. Many tend to really jerk the trigger and pull violently when going fast. This greatly accelerates wear and tear. It kills your accuracy too. Dry firing to a metronome, believe it or not, can really smooth your DA trigger pull.

dahermit · February 28, 2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

There are 2 basiccauses of a revolver going OOT

1. WEAR as parts wear they fail to move the oposing parts to the correct position, mainly the ejector & pawl , trigger& hammer DA/SA sears

2. ABUSE as we read & enjoy the forums every one likes & does "dryfire" there revolvers to some extent or very fast DA/SA shooting , it takes it`s toll on parts , to get em moving & to stop em !

There are 3 causes.
The other one is that the gun (even if it has had more than one owner), is out of time from the factory. Unless someone does the test to determine if the gun locks up before the bolt locks in the notch, the gun may appear to function well enough that out of time is not noticed.

chiefr · February 28, 2011, 04:17 PM

I aske the same question to a gunsmith several year ago who has timed many revolvers and Mr Irwin nailed it.

The same gunsmith went on to tell me he has seen revolvers which could not be timed unless a new cylinder could be fitted because the chambers were drilled unevenly. He went on to say all the uneven cylinders he dealt with were with the imports.

Jim March · February 28, 2011, 04:25 PM

About the only way to abuse a GP100 is to snap the cylinder back in ("Bogarting" it).

The GP100 is a great balance between "resists blowing up" strength and "action parts strength". More or less a perfect balance in fact. A classic six-shot S&W N-frame 357 like the Model 27 has slightly more of the first sort of strength but a lot less of the second, so if you try and shoot a 27 or 28 rapid-fire with light loads, you'll kill 'em in short order. (The eight-shot revised N-frame 357s do a lot better in that regard.)

dgludwig · February 28, 2011, 05:10 PM

Lots of honest use or some abuse will have an adverse affect on a revolver's timing. Keeping a well-designed revolver clean and properly lubricated, as well as handling it with common sense, will go a long way in keeping the timing intact. It doesn't take much "Hollywooding" a cylinder closed and/or poor cleaning/lubrication habits to have a negative influence on the integrity of the timing.

DogoDon · February 28, 2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Dry firing to a metronome, believe it or not, can really smooth your DA trigger pull.

Now that is interesting . . . hadn't seen that tip before.

What metronome setting should one aspire to? Allegro? Vivace? Presto?

Seriously, though, what speed should one work toward?

DD

James K · February 28, 2011, 06:35 PM

There is another cause of revolver problems - folks who read about how easy it is to work on their revolvers, so they do. Then when they realize they have blipped up they trade the gun in and it becomes some other sucker's problem.

Jim

Glenn Dee · February 28, 2011, 09:34 PM

Slamming the cylinder shut with a flick of the wrist like a movie tough guy.
This can cause even worse damage when the revolver is an aluminum frame.

**44 AMP** · February 28, 2011, 11:31 PM

I have heard about the issue with rapid DA fire in the N frame Smiths, get that big heavy cylinder moving fast, then slam it to a stop & fire. I haven't seen it with my guns yet, but I haven't done hardly any of that kind of shooting is the past few years.

Got any idea why it might be worse with light loads (.38s), shooting faster Maybe? Slower shooting with heavy loads doesn't seem to be a problem.

About how many rounds rapid DA should one reasonably expect from a Model 28 before its due for shop work? Any ideas?

Eagle0711 · March 1, 2011, 01:45 AM

I've had new S&Ws that were out of time. Generally a thicker hand will fix it.

MrBorland · March 1, 2011, 04:06 AM

Quote:

What metronome setting should one aspire to? Allegro? Vivace? Presto?

Seriously, though, what speed should one work toward?

IME/IMO, a good revolver shooter can shoot 0.3second splits while still hitting their target, so a good target speed would be 200bpm (= 60s/0.3). With some practice, you may be able to pull 6 at 300+bpm (double-time 152bpm if need be).

Keep in mind, though, "while still hitting their target" is an important caveat: Just pulling the trigger 6 times at any speed isn't the same as hitting your target 6 times at that speed. You'll need good visual skills and lots of live-fire for that. Dry firing to a metronome simply helps develop a smooth and consistent pull: No short-stroking, and no "clunking" noise, which is the sound of your revolver getting pounded into oblivion by a violent & jerky trigger pull.

Oh...I'd be remiss if I didn't remind you...check and double check to be sure your gun isn't loaded with live ammo before dry firing!!

sandbag · March 1, 2011, 07:51 AM

I have .357's made by all three.
I can tell you from experience that Ruger "Six" Series and GP 100's are hard to damage even with light bullets.
I also have a nice Python which I shoot slowly and only with 158 gr lead rounds.
I have a 27 and a 28 from S&W and I generally stick to the same rule of thumb,although I also shoot jacketed 158's from them
My Smith 65 and 19 only get 38+P.
The K frames have a built in weakness in the 6 o'clock area of the forcing cone.That's not a timing issue per se.

RUT · March 1, 2011, 09:04 AM

>>What causes a revolver to go out of time?<<

Cuz it's a Colt?

Venom1956 · March 1, 2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Cuz it's a Colt?

COLT R BETTERZ!

Yeah basically I would say Colts are the most 'frail' but I like them the best.

Then Smith the Ruger. I would give Ruger the edge just because the mechanics of the action are simpler then a S&W and simpler usually = better when we are talking about reliability.

February 28, 2011, 12:04 PM	#1
Libertad Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Location: MI Posts: 36	What causes a revolver to go out of time? I'm sure there are older threads asking this same question, but I had a hard time searching for them. Feel free to link me to an adequate prior explanation if you know of one. What makes a revolver go out of time? Is there anything I should do after shooting to preserve good timing of my double action? (I have a GP100) Thanks in advance, all. I haven't had any problems yet, I just want your input on how to keep it that way

February 28, 2011, 12:23 PM	#4
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Timing There are 2 basiccauses of a revolver going OOT 1. WEAR as parts wear they fail to move the oposing parts to the correct position, mainly the ejector & pawl , trigger& hammer DA/SA sears 2. ABUSE as we read & enjoy the forums every one likes & does "dryfire" there revolvers to some extent or very fast DA/SA shooting , it takes it`s toll on parts , to get em moving & to stop em ! Rugers are over engineered for sure & it`s a blessing as well as a curse it takes alot to move the big heavy cyls then to stop em !! The trick is to over engineer the critical parts that do this So they don`t break or wear excessively !! Ruger has done their part , The Rest is up to the shooter , how much we shoot & how !!! In my opinion the average shooter or wknd. tournamet shooter will be served many yrs of service from the Ruger revolver platforms !!!

February 28, 2011, 12:53 PM	#5
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,464	Shoot it and take care of it. As mentioned wear and abuse can cause it to go out of time but that Ruger should out last you. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 28, 2011, 01:02 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	The specific parts involved in a revolver going out of time are most often either the hand, which indexes the cylinder, or the notches/studs on the cylinder ratchet (which the hand bears on). Very rapid fire double action shooting can be very tough on these parts, especially in large-frame revolvers because of the mass of the cylinder. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 28, 2011, 04:25 PM	#10
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	About the only way to abuse a GP100 is to snap the cylinder back in ("Bogarting" it). The GP100 is a great balance between "resists blowing up" strength and "action parts strength". More or less a perfect balance in fact. A classic six-shot S&W N-frame 357 like the Model 27 has slightly more of the first sort of strength but a lot less of the second, so if you try and shoot a 27 or 28 rapid-fire with light loads, you'll kill 'em in short order. (The eight-shot revised N-frame 357s do a lot better in that regard.) __________________ Jim March

February 28, 2011, 12:13 PM	#2
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	It's just wear and tear from years and years of use. The gp100 ought to be able to withstand more ammo than you could afford to put through it though.

February 28, 2011, 12:23 PM	#3
Andy Taylor Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2010 Posts: 499	As hardworker said, wear and tear. You have a GP100 which is about as stout as a DA revolver can be. I suspect you would wear out your trigger finger before you would experience timing issues with a GP100.

February 28, 2011, 04:17 PM	#9
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I aske the same question to a gunsmith several year ago who has timed many revolvers and Mr Irwin nailed it. The same gunsmith went on to tell me he has seen revolvers which could not be timed unless a new cylinder could be fitted because the chambers were drilled unevenly. He went on to say all the uneven cylinders he dealt with were with the imports.

February 28, 2011, 05:10 PM	#11
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,487	Lots of honest use or some abuse will have an adverse affect on a revolver's timing. Keeping a well-designed revolver clean and properly lubricated, as well as handling it with common sense, will go a long way in keeping the timing intact. It doesn't take much "Hollywooding" a cylinder closed and/or poor cleaning/lubrication habits to have a negative influence on the integrity of the timing. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

February 28, 2011, 06:35 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is another cause of revolver problems - folks who read about how easy it is to work on their revolvers, so they do. Then when they realize they have blipped up they trade the gun in and it becomes some other sucker's problem. Jim

February 28, 2011, 09:34 PM	#14
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,559	Slamming the cylinder shut with a flick of the wrist like a movie tough guy. This can cause even worse damage when the revolver is an aluminum frame.

February 28, 2011, 11:31 PM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,460	I have heard about the issue with rapid DA fire in the N frame Smiths, get that big heavy cylinder moving fast, then slam it to a stop & fire. I haven't seen it with my guns yet, but I haven't done hardly any of that kind of shooting is the past few years. Got any idea why it might be worse with light loads (.38s), shooting faster Maybe? Slower shooting with heavy loads doesn't seem to be a problem. About how many rounds rapid DA should one reasonably expect from a Model 28 before its due for shop work? Any ideas? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 1, 2011, 01:45 AM	#16
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	I've had new S&Ws that were out of time. Generally a thicker hand will fix it.

March 1, 2011, 07:51 AM	#18
sandbag Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 642	Rugers,Smiths,Colts I have .357's made by all three. I can tell you from experience that Ruger "Six" Series and GP 100's are hard to damage even with light bullets. I also have a nice Python which I shoot slowly and only with 158 gr lead rounds. I have a 27 and a 28 from S&W and I generally stick to the same rule of thumb,although I also shoot jacketed 158's from them My Smith 65 and 19 only get 38+P. The K frames have a built in weakness in the 6 o'clock area of the forcing cone.That's not a timing issue per se.

March 1, 2011, 09:04 AM	#19
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Posts: 823	>>What causes a revolver to go out of time?<< Cuz it's a Colt? __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.