Re -seating primer danger - powder loaded !

allserene · December 5, 2010, 04:17 PM

Ready (almost ) to start re-loading...

I have the LEE turret press with powder auto loader and I will be re loading 223

I have a question regarding the primers and the danger of re-seating them when the case has powder loaded

In order to rotate the turret to the bullet seating action, I need to pull the ram down almost to the bottom of its stroke after loading powder. Just a little bit lower and the primer seater arm falls in and would squeeze the primer again - this time with powder loaded

Everyone warns against this but how can I avoid inadvertently doing it - it seems a little bit further with the lever and I would be in danger of reseating the primer. Just a little distraction would do it...

Even worse, I could do it accidentally after the bullet is seated and I am rotating towards the crimp die

What is the advice here please ?

Lost Sheep · December 5, 2010, 06:08 PM

Short answer: Minimal danger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allserene

I have a question regarding the primers and the danger of re-seating them when the case has powder loaded

ALWAYS wear eye protection when handloading, especially when working with primers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allserene

In order to rotate the turret to the bullet seating action, I need to pull the ram down almost to the bottom of its stroke after loading powder. Just a little bit lower and the primer seater arm falls in and would squeeze the primer again - this time with powder loaded
allserene is offline Report Post

The operative work is "almost".

I just tried this with my Classic Turret.

With no cartridge in the shell holder, observe the rotation of the rod/turret as you operate the press handle, watching for the appearance of the primer cup in the center of the shell holder. The cup appears only AFTER the rotation is complete. Put another way, the primer post does not apply any pressure to the primer until after rotation is complete. At this point you can freely insert and remove a cartridge case into the shell holder, proving that the primer ram/post is not contacting the primer.

You can readily feel when the primer post contacts the primer and see when the rotation is complete. I don't give the question a second thought when I am reloading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allserene

Everyone warns against this but how can I avoid inadvertently doing it - it seems a little bit further with the lever and I would be in danger of reseating the primer. Just a little distraction would do it...

It takes a definite and deliberate force on the handle to apply any significant pressure on the primer. That force readily calls my attention away from any distraction; I change my hand position to apply it.

Many do warn against pressing a primer into the pocket a second time, many do not see it as particularly more dangerous than the initial seating.

Yes, a little distraction is a dangerous thing. But not because of the primer particularly. Distractions at any point in the loading process are dangerous.

Please recognize that even if the primer were to ignite the round, the brass is not contained and the side of the cartridge would simply blow out. There would be damage, of course, but probably minimal scarring and you might have to replace your safety glasses (or, face shield).

I don't believe it is any great danger.

Good luck. Remember the eye protection when loading as well as when shooting.

Lost Sheep

allserene · December 5, 2010, 06:18 PM

many thanks

I will check it out some more..

I just wondered if I had missed something - but it seems that getting used to it and concentrating is the answer

I am going to weigh every charge for a while until I am super confident it is spot on - and NO double charges

and yes the safety glasses

jepp2 · December 5, 2010, 06:36 PM

I applaud your cautious approach! You will be well served to ask questions and benefit from the extensive experience available here.

I have been reloading for over 40 years, yet learn a lot reading this forum.

demigod · December 6, 2010, 11:29 AM

I agree that the danger is minimal. I've had to bump an occassional high primer into the pocket on a loaded round a few times in the past. Not a big deal....

F. Guffey · December 6, 2010, 11:45 AM

Some case holders are designed to protect someone from ones self meaning some shell holders will not allow a case to be inserted with a high primer or allow a case with a high primer to be removed from the shell holder.

Then there are those that can not be protected, I will not 'finish' seating a primer on a loaded case. 'rational' Powder can trickle down through the flash hole and fill what space there is between the primer anvil and top of the primer pocket, seating the primer can disturb the anvil when seating and or when the slide is dropped, some call this a slam fire, I call it seating a primer with the impact of the slide, the sound is the same. if you are going to make it a habit do not stack the loaded rounds on the head of the case, stand the loaded rounds on the nose of the bullets.to prevent powder trickling down the flash hole.

F. Guffey

wncchester · December 6, 2010, 12:00 PM

We do have a conditioned reflex to keep things safe and that's good, but sometimes the 'cautions' get a bit overboard. IF a primer was likely to go off during seating we would probably have such occurances with some regularity; we do not.

Pushing a primer deeper with the round in a chamber (die) the potential for harm would be greatly increased.

It may also appear that pushing a primer deeper into a loaded round (especially if charged with ball powder?) might be risky because the powder could fall through the flash hole and increase the resistance to seating a bit more than might be safe. But, fact is, the primer would only move a very few thousants and the powder would actually be pushed right back up the same flash hole so, after consideration, that doesn't seem to matter at all.

Pressure, as such, isn't what detonates primers. I've demonstrated that to non-believers several times by placing a primer in the jaws of a bench vise and litterally crushing the little things without effect. It takes an impact to set off a cap and no routine seating - or continuing seating - will do it. (Thus, as a side note, it's also quite safe to decap live primers normally.)

But wear eye protection and don't have the cartridge in a die when you continue to seat a primer in a loaded round or remove a live primer ... just to be safe!

allserene · December 6, 2010, 12:51 PM

All good info...

I bet people who do a lot of reloading just get into the rhythm - and not lowering the ram enough to re-seat the primer simply becomes a habit..

I will go slowly until I get that rhythm

Heck I might even mount a reed switch so it beeps as the primer pusher moves up !

Is that geeky or what ? You can tell I am retired.

F. Guffey · December 9, 2010, 10:56 AM

It would be irresponsible for me to tell you to seat a primer in a loaded case.

My only responsibility to you is to instruct you to check for high primers before adding powder and bullet.

There must be an old saying that goes something like: "Fools rush in where the wise fear to tread". To loose respect for the potential of danger is arrogant.

Then there is a sticky somewhere about the hammer type bullet puller and the question as to what blew the guys hammer off, was the height primmer a contributing factor, seems everyone blamed the shell holder, I suggested pulling bullets with high primers is risky and the high primer posed more risk than the shell holder because by design the shell holder could not touch the primer. Either through arrogance or ignorance we have to blame something or someone else.

F. Guffey

December 5, 2010, 04:17 PM	#1
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	Re -seating primer danger - powder loaded ! Ready (almost ) to start re-loading... I have the LEE turret press with powder auto loader and I will be re loading 223 I have a question regarding the primers and the danger of re-seating them when the case has powder loaded In order to rotate the turret to the bullet seating action, I need to pull the ram down almost to the bottom of its stroke after loading powder. Just a little bit lower and the primer seater arm falls in and would squeeze the primer again - this time with powder loaded Everyone warns against this but how can I avoid inadvertently doing it - it seems a little bit further with the lever and I would be in danger of reseating the primer. Just a little distraction would do it... Even worse, I could do it accidentally after the bullet is seated and I am rotating towards the crimp die What is the advice here please ?

December 6, 2010, 11:45 AM	#6
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I would not do IT, I will not say "you bet, no problem". Some case holders are designed to protect someone from ones self meaning some shell holders will not allow a case to be inserted with a high primer or allow a case with a high primer to be removed from the shell holder. Then there are those that can not be protected, I will not 'finish' seating a primer on a loaded case. 'rational' Powder can trickle down through the flash hole and fill what space there is between the primer anvil and top of the primer pocket, seating the primer can disturb the anvil when seating and or when the slide is dropped, some call this a slam fire, I call it seating a primer with the impact of the slide, the sound is the same. if you are going to make it a habit do not stack the loaded rounds on the head of the case, stand the loaded rounds on the nose of the bullets.to prevent powder trickling down the flash hole. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; December 6, 2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason: add: fill

December 5, 2010, 06:18 PM	#3
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	many thanks I will check it out some more.. I just wondered if I had missed something - but it seems that getting used to it and concentrating is the answer I am going to weigh every charge for a while until I am super confident it is spot on - and NO double charges and yes the safety glasses

December 5, 2010, 06:36 PM	#4
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	I applaud your cautious approach! You will be well served to ask questions and benefit from the extensive experience available here. I have been reloading for over 40 years, yet learn a lot reading this forum.

December 6, 2010, 11:29 AM	#5
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	I agree that the danger is minimal. I've had to bump an occassional high primer into the pocket on a loaded round a few times in the past. Not a big deal....

December 6, 2010, 12:00 PM	#7
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	We do have a conditioned reflex to keep things safe and that's good, but sometimes the 'cautions' get a bit overboard. IF a primer was likely to go off during seating we would probably have such occurances with some regularity; we do not. Pushing a primer deeper with the round in a chamber (die) the potential for harm would be greatly increased. It may also appear that pushing a primer deeper into a loaded round (especially if charged with ball powder?) might be risky because the powder could fall through the flash hole and increase the resistance to seating a bit more than might be safe. But, fact is, the primer would only move a very few thousants and the powder would actually be pushed right back up the same flash hole so, after consideration, that doesn't seem to matter at all. Pressure, as such, isn't what detonates primers. I've demonstrated that to non-believers several times by placing a primer in the jaws of a bench vise and litterally crushing the little things without effect. It takes an impact to set off a cap and no routine seating - or continuing seating - will do it. (Thus, as a side note, it's also quite safe to decap live primers normally.) But wear eye protection and don't have the cartridge in a die when you continue to seat a primer in a loaded round or remove a live primer ... just to be safe!

December 6, 2010, 12:51 PM	#8
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	All good info... I bet people who do a lot of reloading just get into the rhythm - and not lowering the ram enough to re-seat the primer simply becomes a habit.. I will go slowly until I get that rhythm Heck I might even mount a reed switch so it beeps as the primer pusher moves up ! Is that geeky or what ? You can tell I am retired.

December 9, 2010, 10:56 AM	#9
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	It would be irresponsible for me to tell you to seat a primer in a loaded case. My only responsibility to you is to instruct you to check for high primers before adding powder and bullet. There must be an old saying that goes something like: "Fools rush in where the wise fear to tread". To loose respect for the potential of danger is arrogant. Then there is a sticky somewhere about the hammer type bullet puller and the question as to what blew the guys hammer off, was the height primmer a contributing factor, seems everyone blamed the shell holder, I suggested pulling bullets with high primers is risky and the high primer posed more risk than the shell holder because by design the shell holder could not touch the primer. Either through arrogance or ignorance we have to blame something or someone else. F. Guffey