Long COL in a Savage 12 single shot?

popeyespappy · October 3, 2010, 12:50 PM

I’ve been wanting to try some 80 grain SMK in my 7 twist Savage 12 long range precision varminter 223. According to the Hodgdon site the COL for an 80 grain SMK should be 2.55”. As I’m kind of new to reloading for rifles I wasn’t sure if something that long would work in my rifle. So I loaded a couple of uncharged cartridges with a COL of 2.55 and tested them in the action. They seem to cycle fine and I didn’t notice any marks on the bullets but after I was done the COL of both cartridges had decreased to 2.548”.

So what I am wondering is this OK? Can I leave my COL set for 2.550” or try something a little shorter like 2.545”? Should I be shooting cartridges with a COL longer than the standard 2.26” at all in this rifle?

Thanks

PA-Joe · October 3, 2010, 02:02 PM

Sounds like the bullet hit the lands and was moved back furher into the case. You should reduce the COL by 0.002 since you do not want the bullet resting on the lands.

TXGunNut · October 3, 2010, 02:08 PM

COAL is determined by your rifle, not a manual. Since you don't have a magazine to consider I'd determine when the bullet contacts the lands and go from there. Some do best just barely or almost touching, others prefer a "jump" of .020" or thereabouts. A manual simply can't predict what length that will be. Seating close to or touching the lands can raise the pressure so the sage advice about starting low and working up goes double here.

popeyespappy · October 3, 2010, 02:28 PM

Is there a simple method for determining where the bullet contacts the lands or did I just do that by chambering a long cartridge and measuring the length when it comes out?

Does it really make that much difference to set the bullet close to the lands? The rifle shoots pretty good with COAL set at 2.26”.

TXGunNut · October 3, 2010, 03:00 PM

There are tools that probably do it better but I "paint" the bullet with a Sharpie, carefully chamber the round and study the bullet for marks made by the lands. I start with the bullet touching the lands and seat it deeper until it no longer touches. I measure the cartridge using a bullet comparator so that I can use this measurement for other bullets as well. It's a bit tedious and requires a bit of trial and error but it works for me.
Nice group, BTW. Make me wonder if going longer would actually help. Only one way to find out.

Shoney · October 3, 2010, 05:07 PM

popeyespappy

Read this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332789

It may be long, but it should answer your questions on the "off the lands" subject.

Txhillbilly · October 3, 2010, 08:48 PM

If you reload,a Hornady OAL gauge will pay for itself in time saved finding out the COAL for each different bullet you shoot.

popeyespappy · October 8, 2010, 11:01 PM

Had the Savage 223 out to the range again today trying out some the 80 grain Sierra MatchKings. 23.8 grains of varget put 5 shots into 3/8” at 104 measured yards. It likes the 80 SMKs. COAL was 2.545. I'll be looking into one of the Hornady gauges.

TXGunNut · October 8, 2010, 11:17 PM

I think you're on to something, Pappy. Your rifle seems to like a bullet seated a few thousandths off the lands. Try backing it off in small increments to .020" but you may already have the optimum load for rifle. Gauges are good, knowledge is priceless. Nice shooting!

Jim243 · October 9, 2010, 12:12 AM

Savages are a really an under rated rifle, that is great shooting. You need to come up 2 clicks on the 80 grain. Nice, Nice groups.

Jim

October 3, 2010, 12:50 PM	#1
popeyespappy Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2008 Posts: 337	Long COL in a Savage 12 single shot? I’ve been wanting to try some 80 grain SMK in my 7 twist Savage 12 long range precision varminter 223. According to the Hodgdon site the COL for an 80 grain SMK should be 2.55”. As I’m kind of new to reloading for rifles I wasn’t sure if something that long would work in my rifle. So I loaded a couple of uncharged cartridges with a COL of 2.55 and tested them in the action. They seem to cycle fine and I didn’t notice any marks on the bullets but after I was done the COL of both cartridges had decreased to 2.548”. So what I am wondering is this OK? Can I leave my COL set for 2.550” or try something a little shorter like 2.545”? Should I be shooting cartridges with a COL longer than the standard 2.26” at all in this rifle? Thanks

October 3, 2010, 02:02 PM	#2
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Sounds like the bullet hit the lands and was moved back furher into the case. You should reduce the COL by 0.002 since you do not want the bullet resting on the lands.

October 3, 2010, 02:08 PM	#3
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	COAL is determined by your rifle, not a manual. Since you don't have a magazine to consider I'd determine when the bullet contacts the lands and go from there. Some do best just barely or almost touching, others prefer a "jump" of .020" or thereabouts. A manual simply can't predict what length that will be. Seating close to or touching the lands can raise the pressure so the sage advice about starting low and working up goes double here.

October 3, 2010, 02:28 PM	#4
popeyespappy Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2008 Posts: 337	Is there a simple method for determining where the bullet contacts the lands or did I just do that by chambering a long cartridge and measuring the length when it comes out? Does it really make that much difference to set the bullet close to the lands? The rifle shoots pretty good with COAL set at 2.26”.

October 3, 2010, 03:00 PM	#5
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	There are tools that probably do it better but I "paint" the bullet with a Sharpie, carefully chamber the round and study the bullet for marks made by the lands. I start with the bullet touching the lands and seat it deeper until it no longer touches. I measure the cartridge using a bullet comparator so that I can use this measurement for other bullets as well. It's a bit tedious and requires a bit of trial and error but it works for me. Nice group, BTW. Make me wonder if going longer would actually help. Only one way to find out.

October 3, 2010, 05:07 PM	#6
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	popeyespappy Read this thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332789 It may be long, but it should answer your questions on the "off the lands" subject.

October 3, 2010, 08:48 PM	#7
Txhillbilly Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2008 Posts: 522	If you reload,a Hornady OAL gauge will pay for itself in time saved finding out the COAL for each different bullet you shoot.

October 8, 2010, 11:01 PM	#8
popeyespappy Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2008 Posts: 337	Had the Savage 223 out to the range again today trying out some the 80 grain Sierra MatchKings. 23.8 grains of varget put 5 shots into 3/8” at 104 measured yards. It likes the 80 SMKs. COAL was 2.545. I'll be looking into one of the Hornady gauges.

October 8, 2010, 11:17 PM	#9
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	I think you're on to something, Pappy. Your rifle seems to like a bullet seated a few thousandths off the lands. Try backing it off in small increments to .020" but you may already have the optimum load for rifle. Gauges are good, knowledge is priceless. Nice shooting!

October 9, 2010, 12:12 AM	#10
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Savages are a really an under rated rifle, that is great shooting. You need to come up 2 clicks on the 80 grain. Nice, Nice groups. Jim