Opinions on S&W M&P 15?

DubC-Thompson · September 19, 2010, 07:39 PM

Looking to buy my first ar-15. Ive been looking at the smiths M&P15s at sports shops. Also seen the $100 mail in rebates on these. I was wondering how the quality and accruacy on these rifles were. Let me know how they are.
-thanks for the time

S&W Kinda Guy · September 19, 2010, 07:55 PM

Mines been great! I have shot many rounds through it with only a few problems(mostly caused by my laziness to lube it). It is also very accurate. The finish on it is nice and even and the trigger is nice also.

Ike666 · September 19, 2010, 08:50 PM

I've had one for about a year now. It is my first AR-type in 5.56 (I tend to prefer larger chamberings). I wanted a gun I could build up to my own preferences so I bought the optics-ready version. It actually came bundled with an EO Tech 512 which I gave to my son for his Stagarms M4. I added an Aimpoint Comp M4 instead. I also swapped out most of the stock furniture and replaced it with FDE stuff from a variety of sources. I actually had an old X200 lying around and mounted that with a LaRue Tactical QD mount on the handrail.

Bottom line is I've had great fun plinking with it. Its a solid shooter and I've been happy with S&W's QC on this run. Its not a Colt 6920 but its a passable zombiekiller.

zombieslayer · September 19, 2010, 10:24 PM

If you get the $699 model from CDNN and the $100 rebate its a great deal. I bought a piston M&P and its a piece of crap. But the DI models are as good as anyones. The triggers in these are pretty poor imo, but that's easily fixed.

DubC-Thompson · September 20, 2010, 08:07 AM

ZombieSlayer; are those prices before or after the mail in rebate?

zombieslayer · September 20, 2010, 12:10 PM

$699 before mail-in rebate. That's the only way I'd buy one. I paid $1350 apiece for two piston-AR's from Smith and they're jam-o-matics. They had poorly made uppers, had to be sent back, work better but still aren't 100%. The regular base-model DI Smiths don't seem to have any problems, just crappy triggers. If I was going to spend more than $700 on an AR, I go with Spike's or Stag. They're more AR-specific.

Father Time · September 20, 2010, 02:34 PM

I ordered a M&P 15a at my local shop because I wanted something "more" than just another bushmaster.

When I got home to do a detailed inspection of my new rifle I found that the trigger sucked. Its the worst rifle trigger I have seen in a LONG time. The "industry" need to get away from the uber heavy lawyer triggers (this has gotten out of hand, my century ak has a better trigger).
The other thing I noticed was that the front sight base was canted to the right. Just a small amount but the rear sigh has been adjusted from factory almost all the way to the right to zero the rifle. It made me a little upset because whey they zeroed the rifle there is NO WAY they could have missed this. But they sent it out any way.

Other that that fit and function seems excellent but I think my $100 rebate is going to have to go to a gunsmith to fix the existing problems.

zombieslayer · September 20, 2010, 05:56 PM

FatherTime- glad to see I'm not the only one disappoionted by an M&P. I can add that they DO NOT test-fire these at the factory. Also, I've learned through the series of phone calls to Smith that their AR's parts are mostly sub-contracted. The uppers are NOT made by Smith at all. And you're right about the trigger. I own more than 20 guns and these have the worst triggers by far. I still would buy one for $599. Sucks that I paid $1400 apiece for project guns.

DubC-Thompson · September 20, 2010, 07:41 PM

they're that bad?

arizona98tj · September 20, 2010, 09:26 PM

My OR model runs like a top. I spent $55 for a trigger job and put an ACOG on it. (not the first time I found a factory new firearm with a trigger that I felt needed improvement) If I had to express disappointment with an AR platform rifle, it would be the M&P 15-22. While mine functions great, I chuckle every time I read the description that includes "match barrel". I thought it meant match grade barrel. It obviously meant it was a match to something....they just didn't say what that something was.

LanceOregon · September 21, 2010, 01:08 AM

If you want to get a quality AR at a good price, get a Rock River. Very well made rifles, with great triggers and outstanding accuracy.

I bought my son a mid-length A4 model, and it is an awesome rifle. Most of their models offer a 1 MOA Guarantee. They are one of the few AR-15 makers to offer such a guarantee. And the rifles often shoot well below that, in the half inch range.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/

.

DubC-Hicks · September 27, 2010, 06:30 PM

So I was also looking at M&P15's and Spikes tactical rifles. Would you guys recommend the Spikes over the M&P15's?

Palmetto-Pride · September 27, 2010, 07:51 PM

My M&P 15T has been nothing but great. The only problems I have had with it have been from Silver Bear steel cased ammo. It will spit out any brass cased ammo all day long. It will shoot 1.5" MOA which isn't bad for a stock AR-15.

briang2ad · September 27, 2010, 08:22 PM

You MAY want to look at "the Chart". It is a composite of how different brands stack up against "Milspec" components. S&W fits in the UPPER end of the mid-tier. It is all pretty much Milspec, but the barrel is 4140 instead of 4150, the barrel twist is 1:9, and the bolts are batch tested instead of individually MPI tested (for defects).

Spikes is a SMALL but quality AR only company. It is totally "Milspec" as far as I can see, and has the preferred 1:7 twist. This is a complete mess over at one site, because of a dispute in reference to certification of one of the 'tests'. But, for $800, you are getting a VERY good gun. I can tell you that paying $650-700 for a low tier gun is CRAZY when you can get a Spikes, or simple S&W. I'd have to give the edge to Spikes and it has a lifetime warranty. the Smith is technically one year, but, Smith is excellent in CS, and if you DO have trouble, they send you a shipping label - most folks DON'T do this. Also, my son has a Smith OR, and it is a VERy well made gun.

I ended up with a DD, which is in the 'upper tier', and can be had in BASIC config for under $1000 if you search. The upper tier is basically DD, LMT, Sabre, COlt, BCM, etc. Some would throw in Spikes - that is likely fine - I'm no expert.

Just be aware of the 'arguments' out there.

BTW: 1:7 is needed only for the heavier (>75 gr) and longer bullets. 4150 in a certain test is MIlspec, and 4140 is not - but will you see a difference - likely NOT! My DD is Cold Hammer Forged. Likely better for full auto, and it will last a bit longer. But WILL I see a diff. Likely not.

You can spend two months reading, and you will then just get a taste.

The good thing is that right now there are lots of choices - the tough thing is that there are lots of choices.

The chart: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...jFwPrgTA&gid=5

If you don't watch out, this thing becomes stone in your head.

BTW - on Sat I held a S&W VTAC with 14.5" 1:7 barrel and cool rail and MAGPUL sights - it felt like a dream to point! It looked VERY high in quality.

cwb · September 27, 2010, 08:29 PM

spikes all the way! thats what im getting when i get out of the academy.

zombieslayer · September 27, 2010, 09:21 PM

Spikes is really good stuff for the money. I'd definitely go that route before I'd buy another Smith.

I DID get 300 rounds through each of mine this weekend. Now if I can figure out what I wanna do about those triggers. With the irons, I was getting 2-2.5" groups at 50yds. That's good for my eyesight. I need glasses. Now I'm thinking with a decent trigger, I may be happy, finally.

MadDoza · September 28, 2010, 03:23 PM

S&W, Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Colt, Armalite, all great producers of AR's. One is not better than the other take your pick.

(BH) · September 28, 2010, 09:46 PM

Well, hell. Everybody's down on the M&P, but my M&P15X is awesome. Not one issue so far.

I've had it for over a year and put all sorts of ammo through it. It's accurate, reliable and I think the fit and finish is just as good if not better than many of the others in it's class. I give two thumbs up for the M&P15.

Quentin2 · September 29, 2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

S&W, Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Colt, Armalite, all great producers of AR's. One is not better than the other take your pick.

Of that group ONE definitely is better than the others!

P.S. see the chart linked earlier...

jsimmons · September 29, 2010, 09:06 AM

You can buy a S&W and rest assured that it will operate effectively and reliably. There are some here complaining about the trigger, but honestly, I've never purchased an assembly-line rifle that wasn't in dire need of having some sort of trigger work done.

I recently installed the JP Enterprises yellow spring kit ($9 at Brownells) on both my M&P15 and my M&P15-22, and the while the trigger on my M&P15 felt okay to me, it feels better now. For $9, you can't beat it, and it's easy to do on your own.

Be careful about which S&W you get. The ORC model has a gas block that's supposed to be pinned/welded on. I got the MOE version (and paid too much for it).

Some folks have suggested getting a Spikes or BCM, and that's great advice. The most important thing to remember is to get a rfile that is at least milspec so you don't have any issues with parts fitment from the hundreds of maufacturers. Research and planning are your friends.

Father Time · September 29, 2010, 10:46 AM

Please don't take my post as bashing the S&W M&P. It is still a good rifle but these little things just keep it from being a great rifle. I think that is BS that they put these heavy triggers on them. And as for the quality of triggers on other rifles. MY Enfield Number 4 mark 1* has a better trigger. My Century Yugo M70B1 AK has a better trigger. One rifle was made in 1943 and the other is from a company famouse for questionable quality. The tigger is heavier than the double action trigger on some of my pistols.

zombieslayer · September 29, 2010, 12:02 PM

I agree, my Maadi has a better trigger. My Mini has a MUCH better trigger. As for "resting assured", anything mechanical can let you down. The Serial #'s on my 2 crappy Smiths are far enough apart that they shouldn't have both been defective. When oi opened them up, they had NEVER even been test-fired. Iof I'm "bashing" them, so be it. But I own/buy a lot of firearms. The majority are Smith&Wesson. After the problems I've had with a 22A and these 2 rifles, I feel like Smith has earned my "flaming".

September 19, 2010, 07:39 PM	#1
DubC-Thompson Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 42	Opinions on S&W M&P 15? Looking to buy my first ar-15. Ive been looking at the smiths M&P15s at sports shops. Also seen the $100 mail in rebates on these. I was wondering how the quality and accruacy on these rifles were. Let me know how they are. -thanks for the time

September 27, 2010, 06:30 PM	#12
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,035	So I was also looking at M&P15's and Spikes tactical rifles. Would you guys recommend the Spikes over the M&P15's? __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

September 19, 2010, 07:55 PM	#2
S&W Kinda Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 331	Mines been great! I have shot many rounds through it with only a few problems(mostly caused by my laziness to lube it). It is also very accurate. The finish on it is nice and even and the trigger is nice also.

September 19, 2010, 08:50 PM	#3
Ike666 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SW VA Posts: 491	I've had one for about a year now. It is my first AR-type in 5.56 (I tend to prefer larger chamberings). I wanted a gun I could build up to my own preferences so I bought the optics-ready version. It actually came bundled with an EO Tech 512 which I gave to my son for his Stagarms M4. I added an Aimpoint Comp M4 instead. I also swapped out most of the stock furniture and replaced it with FDE stuff from a variety of sources. I actually had an old X200 lying around and mounted that with a LaRue Tactical QD mount on the handrail. Bottom line is I've had great fun plinking with it. Its a solid shooter and I've been happy with S&W's QC on this run. Its not a Colt 6920 but its a passable zombiekiller.

September 19, 2010, 10:24 PM	#4
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	If you get the $699 model from CDNN and the $100 rebate its a great deal. I bought a piston M&P and its a piece of crap. But the DI models are as good as anyones. The triggers in these are pretty poor imo, but that's easily fixed.

September 20, 2010, 08:07 AM	#5
DubC-Thompson Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 42	ZombieSlayer; are those prices before or after the mail in rebate?

September 20, 2010, 12:10 PM	#6
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	$699 before mail-in rebate. That's the only way I'd buy one. I paid $1350 apiece for two piston-AR's from Smith and they're jam-o-matics. They had poorly made uppers, had to be sent back, work better but still aren't 100%. The regular base-model DI Smiths don't seem to have any problems, just crappy triggers. If I was going to spend more than $700 on an AR, I go with Spike's or Stag. They're more AR-specific.

September 20, 2010, 02:34 PM	#7
Father Time Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2007 Posts: 637	I ordered a M&P 15a at my local shop because I wanted something "more" than just another bushmaster. When I got home to do a detailed inspection of my new rifle I found that the trigger sucked. Its the worst rifle trigger I have seen in a LONG time. The "industry" need to get away from the uber heavy lawyer triggers (this has gotten out of hand, my century ak has a better trigger). The other thing I noticed was that the front sight base was canted to the right. Just a small amount but the rear sigh has been adjusted from factory almost all the way to the right to zero the rifle. It made me a little upset because whey they zeroed the rifle there is NO WAY they could have missed this. But they sent it out any way. Other that that fit and function seems excellent but I think my $100 rebate is going to have to go to a gunsmith to fix the existing problems.

September 20, 2010, 05:56 PM	#8
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	FatherTime- glad to see I'm not the only one disappoionted by an M&P. I can add that they DO NOT test-fire these at the factory. Also, I've learned through the series of phone calls to Smith that their AR's parts are mostly sub-contracted. The uppers are NOT made by Smith at all. And you're right about the trigger. I own more than 20 guns and these have the worst triggers by far. I still would buy one for $599. Sucks that I paid $1400 apiece for project guns.

September 20, 2010, 07:41 PM	#9
DubC-Thompson Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 42	they're that bad?

September 20, 2010, 09:26 PM	#10
arizona98tj Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 980	My OR model runs like a top. I spent $55 for a trigger job and put an ACOG on it. (not the first time I found a factory new firearm with a trigger that I felt needed improvement) If I had to express disappointment with an AR platform rifle, it would be the M&P 15-22. While mine functions great, I chuckle every time I read the description that includes "match barrel". I thought it meant match grade barrel. It obviously meant it was a match to something....they just didn't say what that something was.

September 21, 2010, 01:08 AM	#11
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,771	If you want to get a quality AR at a good price, get a Rock River. Very well made rifles, with great triggers and outstanding accuracy. I bought my son a mid-length A4 model, and it is an awesome rifle. Most of their models offer a 1 MOA Guarantee. They are one of the few AR-15 makers to offer such a guarantee. And the rifles often shoot well below that, in the half inch range. http://www.rockriverarms.com/ .

September 27, 2010, 07:51 PM	#13
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	My M&P 15T has been nothing but great. The only problems I have had with it have been from Silver Bear steel cased ammo. It will spit out any brass cased ammo all day long. It will shoot 1.5" MOA which isn't bad for a stock AR-15.

September 27, 2010, 08:22 PM	#14
briang2ad Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Posts: 859	You MAY want to look at "the Chart". It is a composite of how different brands stack up against "Milspec" components. S&W fits in the UPPER end of the mid-tier. It is all pretty much Milspec, but the barrel is 4140 instead of 4150, the barrel twist is 1:9, and the bolts are batch tested instead of individually MPI tested (for defects). Spikes is a SMALL but quality AR only company. It is totally "Milspec" as far as I can see, and has the preferred 1:7 twist. This is a complete mess over at one site, because of a dispute in reference to certification of one of the 'tests'. But, for $800, you are getting a VERY good gun. I can tell you that paying $650-700 for a low tier gun is CRAZY when you can get a Spikes, or simple S&W. I'd have to give the edge to Spikes and it has a lifetime warranty. the Smith is technically one year, but, Smith is excellent in CS, and if you DO have trouble, they send you a shipping label - most folks DON'T do this. Also, my son has a Smith OR, and it is a VERy well made gun. I ended up with a DD, which is in the 'upper tier', and can be had in BASIC config for under $1000 if you search. The upper tier is basically DD, LMT, Sabre, COlt, BCM, etc. Some would throw in Spikes - that is likely fine - I'm no expert. Just be aware of the 'arguments' out there. BTW: 1:7 is needed only for the heavier (>75 gr) and longer bullets. 4150 in a certain test is MIlspec, and 4140 is not - but will you see a difference - likely NOT! My DD is Cold Hammer Forged. Likely better for full auto, and it will last a bit longer. But WILL I see a diff. Likely not. You can spend two months reading, and you will then just get a taste. The good thing is that right now there are lots of choices - the tough thing is that there are lots of choices. The chart: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...jFwPrgTA&gid=5 If you don't watch out, this thing becomes stone in your head. BTW - on Sat I held a S&W VTAC with 14.5" 1:7 barrel and cool rail and MAGPUL sights - it felt like a dream to point! It looked VERY high in quality.

September 27, 2010, 08:29 PM	#15
cwb Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: jax fl Posts: 482	spikes all the way! thats what im getting when i get out of the academy.

September 27, 2010, 09:21 PM	#16
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	Spikes is really good stuff for the money. I'd definitely go that route before I'd buy another Smith. I DID get 300 rounds through each of mine this weekend. Now if I can figure out what I wanna do about those triggers. With the irons, I was getting 2-2.5" groups at 50yds. That's good for my eyesight. I need glasses. Now I'm thinking with a decent trigger, I may be happy, finally.

September 28, 2010, 03:23 PM	#17
MadDoza Junior Member Join Date: September 27, 2010 Posts: 2	S&W, Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Colt, Armalite, all great producers of AR's. One is not better than the other take your pick.

September 28, 2010, 09:46 PM	#18
(BH) Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 638	Well, hell. Everybody's down on the M&P, but my M&P15X is awesome. Not one issue so far. I've had it for over a year and put all sorts of ammo through it. It's accurate, reliable and I think the fit and finish is just as good if not better than many of the others in it's class. I give two thumbs up for the M&P15.

September 29, 2010, 09:06 AM	#20
jsimmons Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2008 Posts: 226	You can buy a S&W and rest assured that it will operate effectively and reliably. There are some here complaining about the trigger, but honestly, I've never purchased an assembly-line rifle that wasn't in dire need of having some sort of trigger work done. I recently installed the JP Enterprises yellow spring kit ($9 at Brownells) on both my M&P15 and my M&P15-22, and the while the trigger on my M&P15 felt okay to me, it feels better now. For $9, you can't beat it, and it's easy to do on your own. Be careful about which S&W you get. The ORC model has a gas block that's supposed to be pinned/welded on. I got the MOE version (and paid too much for it). Some folks have suggested getting a Spikes or BCM, and that's great advice. The most important thing to remember is to get a rfile that is at least milspec so you don't have any issues with parts fitment from the hundreds of maufacturers. Research and planning are your friends.

September 29, 2010, 10:46 AM	#21
Father Time Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2007 Posts: 637	Please don't take my post as bashing the S&W M&P. It is still a good rifle but these little things just keep it from being a great rifle. I think that is BS that they put these heavy triggers on them. And as for the quality of triggers on other rifles. MY Enfield Number 4 mark 1* has a better trigger. My Century Yugo M70B1 AK has a better trigger. One rifle was made in 1943 and the other is from a company famouse for questionable quality. The tigger is heavier than the double action trigger on some of my pistols.

September 29, 2010, 12:02 PM	#22
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I agree, my Maadi has a better trigger. My Mini has a MUCH better trigger. As for "resting assured", anything mechanical can let you down. The Serial #'s on my 2 crappy Smiths are far enough apart that they shouldn't have both been defective. When oi opened them up, they had NEVER even been test-fired. Iof I'm "bashing" them, so be it. But I own/buy a lot of firearms. The majority are Smith&Wesson. After the problems I've had with a 22A and these 2 rifles, I feel like Smith has earned my "flaming".