Bullet Choice

DRL1187 · August 16, 2010, 09:49 AM

I am reloading a 25-06 and trying to side on the bullet I want to use. I am looking to hunt primarily deer with the gun. My choices are:

Accubond
TSX
Ballistic Tip
Partition

Any reason to use one above the other?

Thanks for the help.

Daniel

**Unclenick** · August 16, 2010, 10:04 AM

Length. Longer bullets (usually either heavier ones or less dense ones, like Barnes of Hornady GMX) need faster barrel twist rates to stabilize. If your gun has a 10" twist barrel, it will tend to be limited to conventional jacket and core bullets of about 65 grains and below for best accuracy in sea level atmosphere. With the solids they will be a little lighter.

There is both a stability calculator and a table of bullet lengths to use free ath the JBM Ballistics site, here. The lengths are selected from the menu at the left. The stability calculator is the last one at the bottom, so you have to scroll down to find it. Between those two menus, you can plug in the individual bullets and their weights, lengths, your barrel twist, the expected velocity and the expected weather conditions.

If that calculator gives you a stability factor, s, result of between 1.3 and 3, you know you are good to go for most hunting accuracy purposes. If it is between 1 and 1.3 it may or may not be satisfactory, but, personally, in the .257" diameter, I would risk trying the bullet because the stability calculator tends to err on the low side with smaller diameter bullets. I would not use bullets short enough that the result is s>3 for long range. Maybe 200 yards. Watch for groups to grow with them. They are spinning at so many RPM out of your chambering than jacket slip and disintegration in flight are potential accuracy issues. That said, in general, the smaller bullet diameters are less prone to that than larger ones are.

.284 · August 16, 2010, 11:04 AM

Unclenick is spot on regarding the density issue with the all copper offerings from Barnes and Hornady. With the smaller diameter of the quarter bore the length of a TSX will be substaintially longer than that of a standard jacketed bullet of the same grain weight. That said. my shooting bud use both the Barnes TTSX and TSX in his Encore 25-06 heavy barrel with great results. Those bullets just work for deer. They expand well and have great weight retention. Keep in mind that Barnes uses pure copper as opposed to glided metel used for jackets. Barnes recommends a thorough cleaning prior to shooting. Also, Barnes bullets seem to prefer a healthy jump to the lands (.030-.070). All in all, I highly recommend the Barnes TTSX and TSX as I shoot them in my .280 Rem, he in his 25-06, and another friend in his 30-06.

Oh by the way, my partner use 100 grain Barnes in his 25. Good luck.

**Unclenick** · August 16, 2010, 12:48 PM

.284,

Do you know which weights of the Barnes your friend is shooting well with? That might help narrow the selection for DRL1187.

At room temperature pure copper is has a density of about 8.93 gm/cm³, while 95:5 gilding metal is 8.86 gm/cm³, so gilding metal bullets of length-proportional design shape will be about 0.7% longer than pure copper. Jacketed lead alloy core bullets vary in density due to differences in gilding metal:lead alloy ratio, but 10.7 gm/cm³ is a commonly used number, so the copper and gilding metal bullet would average 20% longer under most circumstances, which is a much more significant difference.

Since gilding metal is made to limit fouling, I assume its friction level is lower than pure copper, but don't know how that translates to load start pressures, given the design differences in actual Barnes and Hornady GMX bullets.

.284 · August 16, 2010, 02:15 PM

Just for clarification. I did edit my post to include the grain weight that my friend is using (100 grain). Our decision was based upon what Nick had stated, that the heavier grain weights would be an awfully long bullet. Again, Nick points out the friction factor of all copper versus gliding metal. I am speculating a bit but, I believe this may cause the fouling that Barnes is known to have. When you clean your barrel after shooting don't be surprised by the brilliant turquoise cleaning patches that you will pull. Barnes leaves a lion's share of copper in a barrel. However, I think this will be like every other load to test......maybe the greatest thing ever to touch your rifling.....maybe the worst. That's why we do what we do as reloaders. Good luck.

Scorch · August 16, 2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

My choices are:
Accubond
TSX
Ballistic Tip
Partition

All of these are very good quality bullets. Deer are easy to kill. Pick one and load it up. I prefer the Partitions, but I am old school. I keep hearing good things about the Accubonds.

Quote:

Any reason to use one above the other?

Which one does your rifle prefer? Load some up and see which one flies best and fouls least.

Sidewinder72 · August 16, 2010, 07:46 PM

I used to shoot partitions but now I use the accubonds. Made for deer and very accurate. Cheaper than partitions too. H 4831 sc and accubonds near max is a deadly combo. Good shooting

kraigwy · August 17, 2010, 07:18 PM

I hunt deer and antilope with a 257 Roberts using 100 Grn Hornady SSt bullets. Never failed me.

I dont believe you can need those fancy high price bullets for deer size animals.

August 16, 2010, 09:49 AM	#1
DRL1187 Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 49	Bullet Choice I am reloading a 25-06 and trying to side on the bullet I want to use. I am looking to hunt primarily deer with the gun. My choices are: Accubond TSX Ballistic Tip Partition Any reason to use one above the other? Thanks for the help. Daniel

August 16, 2010, 10:04 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,734	Length. Longer bullets (usually either heavier ones or less dense ones, like Barnes of Hornady GMX) need faster barrel twist rates to stabilize. If your gun has a 10" twist barrel, it will tend to be limited to conventional jacket and core bullets of about 65 grains and below for best accuracy in sea level atmosphere. With the solids they will be a little lighter. There is both a stability calculator and a table of bullet lengths to use free ath the JBM Ballistics site, here. The lengths are selected from the menu at the left. The stability calculator is the last one at the bottom, so you have to scroll down to find it. Between those two menus, you can plug in the individual bullets and their weights, lengths, your barrel twist, the expected velocity and the expected weather conditions. If that calculator gives you a stability factor, s, result of between 1.3 and 3, you know you are good to go for most hunting accuracy purposes. If it is between 1 and 1.3 it may or may not be satisfactory, but, personally, in the .257" diameter, I would risk trying the bullet because the stability calculator tends to err on the low side with smaller diameter bullets. I would not use bullets short enough that the result is s>3 for long range. Maybe 200 yards. Watch for groups to grow with them. They are spinning at so many RPM out of your chambering than jacket slip and disintegration in flight are potential accuracy issues. That said, in general, the smaller bullet diameters are less prone to that than larger ones are. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; August 16, 2010 at 03:00 PM.

August 16, 2010, 11:04 AM	#3
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	Unclenick is spot on regarding the density issue with the all copper offerings from Barnes and Hornady. With the smaller diameter of the quarter bore the length of a TSX will be substaintially longer than that of a standard jacketed bullet of the same grain weight. That said. my shooting bud use both the Barnes TTSX and TSX in his Encore 25-06 heavy barrel with great results. Those bullets just work for deer. They expand well and have great weight retention. Keep in mind that Barnes uses pure copper as opposed to glided metel used for jackets. Barnes recommends a thorough cleaning prior to shooting. Also, Barnes bullets seem to prefer a healthy jump to the lands (.030-.070). All in all, I highly recommend the Barnes TTSX and TSX as I shoot them in my .280 Rem, he in his 25-06, and another friend in his 30-06. Oh by the way, my partner use 100 grain Barnes in his 25. Good luck. Last edited by .284; August 16, 2010 at 11:11 AM.

August 16, 2010, 12:48 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,734	.284, Do you know which weights of the Barnes your friend is shooting well with? That might help narrow the selection for DRL1187. At room temperature pure copper is has a density of about 8.93 gm/cm³, while 95:5 gilding metal is 8.86 gm/cm³, so gilding metal bullets of length-proportional design shape will be about 0.7% longer than pure copper. Jacketed lead alloy core bullets vary in density due to differences in gilding metal:lead alloy ratio, but 10.7 gm/cm³ is a commonly used number, so the copper and gilding metal bullet would average 20% longer under most circumstances, which is a much more significant difference. Since gilding metal is made to limit fouling, I assume its friction level is lower than pure copper, but don't know how that translates to load start pressures, given the design differences in actual Barnes and Hornady GMX bullets. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; August 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM.

August 16, 2010, 02:15 PM	#5
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	DRL1187 and Nick Just for clarification. I did edit my post to include the grain weight that my friend is using (100 grain). Our decision was based upon what Nick had stated, that the heavier grain weights would be an awfully long bullet. Again, Nick points out the friction factor of all copper versus gliding metal. I am speculating a bit but, I believe this may cause the fouling that Barnes is known to have. When you clean your barrel after shooting don't be surprised by the brilliant turquoise cleaning patches that you will pull. Barnes leaves a lion's share of copper in a barrel. However, I think this will be like every other load to test......maybe the greatest thing ever to touch your rifling.....maybe the worst. That's why we do what we do as reloaders. Good luck.

August 16, 2010, 07:46 PM	#7
Sidewinder72 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 130	I used to shoot partitions but now I use the accubonds. Made for deer and very accurate. Cheaper than partitions too. H 4831 sc and accubonds near max is a deadly combo. Good shooting

August 17, 2010, 07:18 PM	#8
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,060	I hunt deer and antilope with a 257 Roberts using 100 Grn Hornady SSt bullets. Never failed me. I dont believe you can need those fancy high price bullets for deer size animals.