Rifle crimp?

[jnestle]

I am new to reloading and have loaded about 1000 rounds of 40 cal with good success. I am wanting to load for a .243 win but either I keep getting conflicting information or I just get confused (maybe some of both). It seems that I occasionally read to "never crimp rifle bullets" and then I sometimes read "crimp rifle bullets under certain circumstances".
I would really appreciate any expertise in this matter that I can count on. Any other recomendations and advice on reloading the .243 would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance,

JN

[Slamfire]

This was fought over last week in this thread.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ighlight=crimp

[Brian Pfleuger]

If you're loading for a bolt action rifle or a single shot then you don't *need* a crimp. If you're loading for a semi-auto then you probably do need a crimp because the process of stripping the round from the magazine and slamming it into the chamber can move the bullet.

Some people feel that crimping rounds, even for a bolt or single shot, gives more consistent shot to shot pressures and velocities.

[Irish80prf]

I just started to load for my .243 and I've had really good results from my first loads. First I don't crimp and I haven't had any need to. They suggest crimping if you are using your loads for hunting, keeps moisture out. Also if you are using an AR style rifle you need to crimp because recoil can seat the bullets deeper in the case.

As far as my .243 loads here is what I'm using:
Savage with a 1:9.25" twist 22"bbl
38.0 grains Hodgdon H4895 (hodgdon minimum load)
65 grain Hornady V-max
Federal cases.
C.O.L 2.600"
CCI primers

I'm using a Lee single stage press with there deluxe rifle dies. If you still have to buy dies for your .243 I would really look into these. It comes with a neck sizing die and a full length sizing die so you are covered either way. The neck sizing is the way to go in my opinion, way less stress on the cases and less trimming. Good luck and have fun.

My best group so far is .46" five shot group at 100 yards.

[Slamfire]

Also if you are using an AR style rifle you need to crimp because recoil can seat the bullets deeper in the case.

Never had that problem with a .223 in an AR. Shot tens of thousands of uncrimped AR bullets, had a few nose dive jams on the ramp. Bullet will get a little drive in and the case neck gets bent.

If you really want to check on just how tight .223 bullets are in the brass, take an inertial bullet puller and try to extract the bullet.

It takes the most wacks with .223 than any other cartridge I shoot. I have beat inertial bullet pullers until the nose of the puller deformed.

[Jim243]

Irish, you and I have the same 243. I love that gun, but am using the 105 gr A-Max.

Back to the question, the answer is maybe. If you are shooting Bench Rest (one shot at a time), you do not need to crimp. Some even think that it hurts accuracy to crimp. These are people that weigh each and every bullet to make sure they are exactly the same. They are generally shooting 500 to 600 meters or more and are looking for extreem accuracy. (Money is involved in their compititions.)

The rest of us slobs are happy when our groups are .5 to 1 MOA together (1.1 inch apart). We use our guns mostly for hunting. (it gets too expensive just to shoot up our ammo nowadays, even when reloading.) So for safety's sake (we load 4 to 5 rounds in our magazines), we crimp. Some, say it makes the ammo more reliable and insures that all the powder is burnt and gives better FPS on our shots.

Now Slamfire and I have gone around on this topic before, and he is correct that the Rifle Crimping Die will impart a slight dent in the bullet (ones without a cantilure in them, those with a cantilure it will not). But to be extreemly honest about this, the heat from firing your gun will start to soften (melt) your bullet the second it starts to travel down the barrel and will reform your bullet to your rifling. Don't believe me on this, just grab a hold of your barrel right after firing a shot, just bring along some burn cream to fix your hand.

Now I personally believe I get a fuller burn of my powder by crimping, also I am a coward and do not want to fire off a second or third shot where the bullet has changed OAL because of the recoil and blows up my gun.

Aaaa the question, to crimp or not to crimp, it's a personal choice.

Do you feel lucky, boy!! (Clint Eastwood quote)

Jim

[amamnn]

If you are going to be shooting a .243--Win? WSM? WSSM? for accuracy off a bench, you will certainly do more harm than good by crimping, assuming you have uniform neck tension in each and every round. It that's true we must assume you will be using target bullets which nowadays have no cannelure. Crimping will have an effect upon start pressure to some unknown degree which adds a variable into a process in which we strive to eliminate variables. Crimping a non-cannelured bullet can be quite challenging to say the least. I've talked to some folks who say that the slight deformation of bullets which have been crimped is of no significance and others who appalled at even the thought of deforming a bullet by canneluring it. It can fairly be said that the folks who were shocked! at the thought were all match shooters and mostly point blank BR competitors.Time spent on finding the right neck tension and uniforming all cases to have that tension would be time better spent if one is looking for extreme accuracy.

If you will be loading cartridges for hunting then we might assume a bullet with a cannelure which would best be crimped (IMHO as lightly as necessary to secure the bullet in place) since cartridges can be subject to many knocks and shocks in the field long before they are ever fired. Since your bullet weight and powder charge may indicate not a magnum, I included this for magnum users:

If you will be shooting a magnum cartridge you will want to crimp to keep bullets in possible follow up shots from being moved about in the neck while in the magazine. This being said, I will also add that I shoot a .243 WSSM in an AR platform off the bench using target bullets uncrimped with no problems. I usually shoot single shot in order to use a seating closer to the lands than the magazine will allow, but I have also run several magazines of ammo through the rifle without incident. An AR type undoubtedly has a bit lighter recoil shock than a bolt gun.

[riverwalker76]

I would put a light crimp on them using a Lee Factory Crimp die. It doesn't dig into the brass like the other roll crimps do. It wouldn't hurt. The Lee Factory Crimp die doesn't dig into the bullet like the roll crimp does. It only tightens the brass flush to the bullet. The same as ALL factory ammo is.

[Tim R]

The only rifle I crimp brass for a 30-30. A tube feed magizine is a reason to crimp.

Now Slamfire and I have gone around on this topic before, and he is correct that the Rifle Crimping Die will impart a slight dent in the bullet (ones without a cantilure in them, those with a cantilure it will not). But to be extreemly honest about this, the heat from firing your gun will start to soften (melt) your bullet the second it starts to travel down the barrel and will reform your bullet to your rifling.

I crimped some 69 gr SMK's one time and they shot like crap compaired to not crimped. Jim, I don't believe a jacketed bullet spends enough time in the barrel even at 56,000 psi to take a crimp dent out of the side of a bullet.

My other thought is is you need the heat from your powder to get your bullet to melt and form against your rifling, then you should use a little bigger bullet or it's tiime for a new barrel.

I don't even crimp my hunting ammo for my '06. I only shoot maybe 10 rounds a year in my hunting rifle. Scope is always on and then a shot to kill a deer. Last couple of years I've used a smoke pole. This year I'm thinking of not hunting becasue I'm so mad over the new rules for permits and stuff.

[Jim243]

Tim

That's why 243 barrels need to be replaced around 700 to 800 rounds and your 30-06 is good for about 4000 rounds. Some people load up the 243 to hit 4,000 FPS, personally I think that's a little extreem, I shoot for 3,200 to 3,500 FPS.

Jim

Those 69 gr SMK's are too expensive to be crimping. Sorry to hear your putting away the camo this year,

Best wishes
Jim

[Tim R]

Still, no need to crimp them........I know for a fact the military's M-852 (308) match is not crimped on either end.

[Irish80prf]

Jim243 yeah I just got the 243 about 3 weeks ago and I love the gun as much as my other Savages. It is about as much fun to shoot as any gun I've ever shot or owned. I try to load up my rounds on the slower side just to save my barrel, I don't have a chrono but I should be running right around 3300-3500 f/sec.

[Sarge]

ACE (Always Crimp Everything)

[Bamashooter]

the only thing i crimp is my 223 becouse it a semi auto. then only a light crimp. just to be on the safe side. i do not crimp for my bolt action or single shot rifles. lee factory crimp die is the way to go.

[jtmckinney]

jnestle, Good luck with your new reloading adventure. I cannot answer to extreme accuracy loading but I can tell what I do for my 243 application.

This is a family shooter and hunting gun, Remington 700 BDL. I load to modest velocitys with what seems to be good success. Also the ammo has to withstand handling and conditions that would have bench rest shooters gasping for breath. I am very consistent with case length and apply a very modest crimp. I use Hornaday 100 grain Spire Point and IMR-4831.

Hope this helps,
James