loading for 45-70

[waterboy68]

Just getting set up for loading my 45-70 and will be using some already fired Remington brass as well as some new unfired Starline brass. I've never used new unfired brass to reload (just spent cases). I was wondering if I need to put the new brass through the resizing die or is this just going to be a waste of time since it has never been fired?
Thanks, Any advice on loading this caliber will be apreciated!

[mrawesome22]

Size, trim, chamfer, debur, debur flash holes, the whole works.

[Edward429451]

There's no shortcut with new brass

[stegmaier]

I agree with Edward on that, their isn't any shortcuts to be had with them...

[flashhole]

You might want to look at this if you are loading for the 45-70.


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech...h_notes.htm/49

[44 AMP]

Lots of times cases can be dented or have out of round case mouths, especially with long thin brass like the .45-70.

The cure is what you do anyway, all the same steps you do to fired brass. Measuring, trimming and chamfering (if needed), sizing, and on to loading.

New brass is great, and usually ready to load, BUT, things can happen in the shipping and handling, so check it all out first. Sizing the new brass makes sure its ready to go.

IF case mouths are bent, careful "straightening" should be done. One way to do this is to use the expander die. Running a case part way in usually does all thats needed. IF the mouth is too badly bent in, use a dowel or other tool to open it up enough to use the expander without snagging.

[riverwalker76]

Also, I'll save you a little trouble on loading 45/70 in case you don't already know.

They are like straight walled pistol cases. You have to make sure you flare the neck out enough before you try and seat a bullet. Also, a little vaselene on the sides of the bullet goes a long way with ensuring a 'crinkle free' load.

When I first started reloading I didn't have anyone to instruct me on 45/70 reloading, and I crinkled 5 or 6 brass before I found out what that expanding die feature was for.

[waterboy68]

Thanks for the pointers. And yes. I found out the hardway that I have to flare the case pretty good to get the 405g remington slugs to go in. Smashed one already. I like the idea of putting a little lube on the bullet too. I may try that, but will vaseline affect the powder? Hopefully I can get a couple loads worked up in the next few weeks to try out.

[Edward429451]

A Lyman M die will do the same thing for you that vaseline will without danger to the powder or mess

[totaldla]

You'll need to resize (neck or full-length) or you won't get enough tension to prevent setback - assuming you're loading for a levergun. Trim if you want, but it is not necessary. Chamfering isn't a big deal as long as you flare before seating. I've never seen a plugged flashhole from Starline, but seems like I always "peek" before I prime.

I use Lymans neck-sizing die, and do about 9/10th of an inch - saves on the grunting/groaning of full-length resizing. I shoot a Guide Gun.

[flashhole]

Any time you chamber a round in a gun, regardless of the type of gun, if your ammo case/bullet junction is shoved/forced into the chamber because the case is too long it will create a high pressure situation. This can be very bad for the person who pulls the trigger. If your brass is longer than the SAMMI specs to which the chamber is reamed you need to trim it back and you need to deburr it.

[Edward429451]

You neck size for a Guide Gun? Interesting.

I think you may have misunderstood me. Lymans M dies are not neck sizing dies, they have a specially designed expander rod speciffically for cast lead bullets and work better than standard dies.

[flashhole]

I know people who "partially FL size" for 45-70. The thinking is to only size the top portion of the case to facilitate a better fit to the chamber. They still have to trim to length but I don't buy into the rationale of improved accuracy by "neck sizing" with this cartridge.

FL size 45-70 brass, use a proper case expander for bullet seating, and apply a proper crimp. I like to use the Redding Taper Crimp Die. I load for my lever action Guide Gun with great success.

[waterboy68]

Thanks for the heads up on the "M" dies from Lyman. They look like they might save some headaches in the future. Just looked them up on Midway this afternoon and they happened to have them on clearance so I picked one up. Figured it's worth a try anyway. I have a Lee 3 die set and even with the die set to flare the case mouth out as much as possible the bullets are still hanging up every now and then when I try to push them in. hopefully this will help.

[riverwalker76]

.....I like the idea of putting a little lube on the bullet too. I may try that, but will vaseline affect the powder?

You don't have to put a whole lot of vaselene. You just put a little on there to lube the bullet a little. Right around the amount of sizing lube you put on your cartridges before sizing would be good. You just want a light film.

I've never had a problem with it affecting the powder at all.

[totaldla]

Yes, I neck size for the Guide Gun. Marlin chambers are very generous. I can't imagine ever having to trim a case for the 45-70 as straight-walled cases don't grow and the cartridge is headspaced on the rim.

I was not talking about the Lyman "M" die. I have one, but I don't use it. I can start and seat up to .462" bullets just fine without it, so I don't see the use for the die. It might be of great help for those using paper-patched bullets in single-shot rifles, but I have no experience with that.

I use Lyman/Lee dies for my 45-70. And I use the Lee FCD. But I've done experiments to show that neck tension is the biggest factor in preventing bullet setback - the FCD won't do it alone.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by waterboy68

Thanks for the pointers. And yes. I found out the hardway that I have to flare the case pretty good to get the 405g remington slugs to go in. Smashed one already. I like the idea of putting a little lube on the bullet too. I may try that, but will vaseline affect the powder? Hopefully I can get a couple loads worked up in the next few weeks to try out.

Something isn't right here. Your flare should be enough that you can start the bullet by hand, i.e. place the bullet within the casemouth with your fingers. You do not need lubrication. If you have enough flare, and you are still squashing them, then something is wrong with your FL resizing die.

[waterboy68]

Admittedly the first couple that I messed up were probably my fault (case not flared quite enough). The remingtons are flat based. They dies are brand new and set up according to the instructions. The starline brass is the nickel plated type of brass which I guess is a little bit harder than regular brass, but that shouldn't make them harder to flare should it? I resized all of them last night and you could definetly tell there were differances in them. Some were much harder to run into the press than others. I'm assuming that's fairly normal for new brass?

[Edward429451]

Or brass fired with warm loads. When I started loading 45/70 I noticed that those big ol 45/70 brass take some work compared to smaller brass to resize.
Over on the CastBoolit board is a guy who makes his own case lube in Alaska
It was supposed to be so good so I bought some and tried it next to Imperial wax on 45/70 brass...

Imperial wax is good stuff, but this blue goo is better. I estimate that this mans blue goo reduces friction 50% greater than Imperial. A little tackier than Imp. My bench didn't flex as much resizing 45/70 as with the Imp. Better go get some.

[flashhole]

In the link I posted it shows several different weight bullets including a 500 grain bullet, all of which have the crimp grove in the same loacation. I shoot these in my Marlin Guide Gun and they cycle just fine in the tube and action. The COL is no longer than any other load. The 500 grain bullet simply gets pushed further into the case. Not all heavy bullets are so constructed but if you want to shoot bullets like this they are available.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

As per lubing the case mouth for bullet seating, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have properly prepaired your cases, there is zero/zip/none need

I realise this is just IMHO, but have cast & shot a fair number of cast bullets in handguns over the years, and now loading cast in a 45/70, I make it a policy to wipe the cast bullet base after sizing/lubing and again before seating the bullet in the case.

Have had cast bullet loads around for years, and have never had a bad load because of powder going bad from grease/lube getting into the powder.

I have seen it happen, and thankfully I yelled loud and long enough to keep the hammer from droping on the next round in the cylinder.

When loading jacketed bullets, again NO NEED to lube the case or bullets before seating if you have done proper case prep.

Why would I wish to induce even a small amount of grease into my cartridges?

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[waterboy68]

Once agian. Thanks for all the tips. I did read though the page on that link. Thanks flash. You guys feel free to keep the advise coming. I always try to learn from others experiances when I can.

[darkgael]

I have a slightly different take about preparing/loading new brass. Yes, I put a bell on the case mouth. Yes, I chamfer, if necessary.
I do inspect the cases. If there are any defects - dents, damage to the case mouth, etc., I set those cases aside.
I NEVER size new cases. They are already sized. I realize that the OP asked about .45-70 cases but my best example of why sizing is unnecessary comes from manufacturers who sell (or used to) cases of new primed brass. It is pretty obviously meant to be taken from the box, charged with powder and a bullet and shot. That was normally how I bought and prepared my .223 ammo - factory cases of primed brass. I still have the better part of the last case as well as a bunch of factory primed .38s
New brass like the 45-70 is the same, except it is not primed.
Reading through this thread, i understand that I am in the minority about this but I can see no good reason for lubing a case, running it through a sizing die, and then cleaning the lube off (three extra steps) when the cases are already sized.
Note: all of my 45-70s are single shots. The .223 and the .38s are not.
Pete
The sam