Mid-late 70's USAF revolver?

nfafan · March 31, 2010, 12:50 AM

Hello all,

Was in the USAF from 10/73 - too long, and in between I had a chance to schedule myself to the SAMTU for handgun training. Repeatedly.

Did great actually, and nothing beats shooting up someone else's ammo!

Anyway, they had us using S&W revolvers, IIRC - 6-shots. Great and easy gun for a handgun noob, and I always wondered which one it was, so I could find a used one someday.

From lurking here - was this revolver the "K-15"?

Thanks!

Jim March · March 31, 2010, 01:03 AM

It could have been an S&W model 15, which was built on the "K" frame size and had adjustable sights in 38Spl. The fixed-sight equivalent would have been the model 10.

DPris · March 31, 2010, 01:16 AM

72-76 we were using Model 15s, I never saw a Model 10 at any of the four bases I was at.
Denis

Webleymkv · March 31, 2010, 01:17 AM

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Air Force issued S&W M15's. Prior to S&W's change to model numbers in 1957, the M15 was known as the K-38 Combat Masterpiece. The M15 is built on S&W's K-Frame and has adjustable sights. The M15 was available in either blue or nickel with either a 2" or 4" barrel.

BillCA · March 31, 2010, 03:18 AM

Yes, indeed, it should have been the Model 15, as shown below in a "family" photo. The Model 15 is a medium "K" frame revolver chambered for the .38 Special, six shots, with a blue finish, adjustable rear sights, a ribbed 2" or 4" barrel with a Baughman Quick-Draw front sight. Grips were typically "magna" style walnut.

The Model 15 was designed as a "better" police sidearm than the standard Model 10 M&P revolver with fixed sights. Many police officers carried a Model 15 for the better sight picture it offered and because it's weight and balance were just right for the .38 Special.

Stainless Model 67 shown with 2 & 4-inch Model 15's.

You can sometimes find nice pre-owned Model 15's and even police trade-in guns in very good shape in gun shops or used gun distributors. These can be a good buy if well cared for or lightly used. I personally love my 15/67 pair. They're shown wearing the target grips which suit my hand better. The snubby still wears it's original Magna grips.

aarondhgraham · March 31, 2010, 08:52 AM

The Model 15 K-38 Combat Masterpiece was the standard issue sidearm for the Air Force in the early 70's.

That's what I carried at 3 different duty stations.

It's not difficult to find a good used one in the 300 to 450 price range,,,
I found this near perfect specimen a couple of months back,,,
Paid 500 for it, the box, and all factory accessories.

IMHO this might be the epitome of .38 special revolvers.

jhenry · March 31, 2010, 09:13 AM

aarondhgrahm, you should post a picture with the revolver in it so we can enjoy it

Yes, issue was the Smith and Wesson Model 15. 4" and blue, although some were sent back for refurbishment and came back parkerized. Aircrew guns were 2 1/2' model 15's at that time. Standard load was an anemic 130 grain FMJ. Aircrew loads were Glasser saftey slugs. Nice guns, crap ammo.

aarondhgraham · March 31, 2010, 09:37 AM

I get that a lot when I post this particular picture,,,
The Frankoma Pottery Fan Dancer catches the eye doesn't it.

It might actually be more valuable than the handgun.

Yesterday I made a find and immediately laid out the cash for it.

I found a S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece,,,
It's the exact same handgun but in .22 LR.

I can't pick it up until Saturday though,,,
Something about a 10 day wait before a pawn shop can sell a gun they have purchased from a private individual.

**Mike Irwin** · March 31, 2010, 09:48 AM

"I found a S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece,,,
It's the exact same handgun but in .22 LR."

I bought a Model 18 last summer.

SWEET gun!

aarondhgraham · March 31, 2010, 10:22 AM

I'm itching to get her out and shoot,,,
First time I've had to wait for a gun since I left California.

This specimen has a lot of blue wear on all of the high spots,,,
I would rate her halfway between good and very good.

The cylinder locks up tight though,,,
So I don't think $325 was a bad price at all.

Now if I can just find a S&W Model 34 with a 2" barrel,,,
I'll have a .22 LR match for all of my favorite centerfire handguns.

Glenn Dee · March 31, 2010, 03:08 PM

Hey Guys...

I'm an Air Force brat. I grew up in base, and local housing on several bases, and detatchments. I remember my dad sometimes carrying a revolver. My best recolection is a 4" blue steel. At the time he was assigned to the security police.

I'm just wondering what jobs in the USAF required carrying the model 15's. I know the security police, and officers in missle silo's. Who else may have?... The Air Police?... Flight crews?

aarondhgraham · March 31, 2010, 04:50 PM

A lot of it depended on your unit commander,,,

My first job was as a mere Maintenance Control Operator for a communications squadron,,,
But since we were at Squadron HQ at night and had access to crypto gear,,,
Our commander authorized (required) us to carry sidearms.

When I was attached to an Army outfit in Nam,,,
I carried the Model 15 revolver 24/7.

Other jobs I only carried at the duty station itself.

My career was weird wasn't it,,,
I was never an AP or security guard,,,
Yet in four out of my six jobs I was armed.

longranger · March 31, 2010, 05:24 PM

Depends on HQ,at MAC,SAC,TAC or ATC.

Nasty · March 31, 2010, 09:27 PM

4" M15 for almost all of the base personnel. Some aircrew were trained with a 2" as carried in flight, while the OSI had a couple other choices possible.

My forum name on most sites is SAMTU Ray. 17 years as a Small Arms Marksmanship Training Unit instructor, 30+ years in competition.

Hope this helps.

aarondhgraham · April 2, 2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

The Model 15 was the standard issue sidearm of the U.S. Air Force Air/Security Police, the DoD version of the "Combat Masterpiece" using M41 .38 Special 130-grain FMJ RN Ball ammunition, between 1962 and the adoption of the Beretta M9 pistol in 9x19mm caliber in 1985. These M15 revolvers were replaced by the Beretta M9 pistol in 9x19mm caliber by the early 1990's.

Click Here please,,,

p99guy · April 2, 2010, 12:39 PM

I have read that the Air Force contract 4 inch M15's fell withen the 15-2, and 15-3 revision models.

orangello · April 2, 2010, 12:56 PM

I'm pretty sure that J&G sales has some of the police trade in model 15's, but they were converted to DAO. I've seriously considered getting one for my dad.

aarondhgraham · April 2, 2010, 04:06 PM

Unless I have the number wrong,,,
That is the stainless steel version of the model 15.

Check around some other places before you commit to one of the DAO revolvers,,,
It's not a rare handgun so you should be able to find an unmodified one,,,
I see clean Model 15's and 67's on gunbroker all the time.

Good luck in your search.

nfafan · April 3, 2010, 02:00 AM

Thanks all for the discussion and info!

rodfac · April 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

I was a Forward Air Controller flying O-1E Bird dogs in Vietnam 69-70 (my first tour) and was issued a S&W M-15 .38 Special when I arrived in-country. Ours had the skinny useless stocks, not the target models. (and part of the reason that I carried a Colt .45 instead.) Prior to that, as a range officer at the Air Force Academy from 66-68, we trained new cadets with the same guns. Much earlier cadets (in the 64-65) era were trained with a 2" barreled S&W .38 Special.

All of the fighter types flying out of Bien Hoa AB, in S. Vietnam while I was there carried the Model 15 Smith as well, tho they turned theirs in after each flight to the personal equipment guys. As a FAC flying up country out of An Loc in lll Corps, we were armed 24/7, with both the hand gun and a Car 15 version of the M-16. For the bulk of my tour I left the Smith in the bunker and carried the previously mentioned, 1911A1 provided by my hosts... 5th Special Forces Berets in camp B-334. They thought highly of the green as grass shave-tail Lt. that provided their top cover while in the bush.

The Smith was well made and in good condition, but the Colt did a far better job and was better suited to the mud of slit trenches and fighting positions than any revolver. I wore it in a somewhat modified "tanker's" holster across my chest out of the way of the lap belt and shoulder harness in the bird, but instantly accessible if I needed to make a run for it. On the ground in the camp, it stayed pretty much out of the mud and glop in the bunkers and I was very religious about cleaning it each night.

Later, flying out of Thailand, in 72-72, I was issued the same type of Smith for in-flight carry. We turned them in each night as the base was considered secure....(Korat, and Takli).

JHMO, Rodfac

Nasty · April 9, 2010, 08:18 AM

RodFAC - I agree 100%. I was in the last draft myself, only 93 days in country. ***WELCOME HOME***

rodfac · April 9, 2010, 06:52 PM

Nasty..and "Welcome Home" to you as well, sir. Rod

Nasty · April 9, 2010, 07:30 PM

I worked for a living Sir...just a new E3 grunt (FNT) at the time. Thanks for the proper greeting to you as well.

gmh1013 · April 9, 2010, 08:46 PM

sa

moxie · April 9, 2010, 09:18 PM

rodfac, I was at Takhli from 29 March '73-15 Aug. '73. I was munitions and weapons safety, first for the 474TFW, later for the 6280 CSG. Went there from Tan Son Nhut, next to last plane out. Quite a day, 29 Mar. And yes the Mod. 15 Combat Masterpiece was the standard issue sidearm. It was actually a wonderful gun. The limiting factor was the anemic 130 gr. ammo that zipped along at about 650fps. Natch I caried a 1911 instead. I did a lot of work with the 20 and 21 TASS guys in RVN who had upgraded to O-2s and OV-10s by then before I went to Takhli. At Takhli I had buddies who flew Pedros but most of my time was spent supporting the F-111As. All in all I spent 23 years in the AF, from '69-'92.

March 31, 2010, 12:50 AM	#1
nfafan Member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Posts: 69	Mid-late 70's USAF revolver? Hello all, Was in the USAF from 10/73 - too long, and in between I had a chance to schedule myself to the SAMTU for handgun training. Repeatedly. Did great actually, and nothing beats shooting up someone else's ammo! Anyway, they had us using S&W revolvers, IIRC - 6-shots. Great and easy gun for a handgun noob, and I always wondered which one it was, so I could find a used one someday. From lurking here - was this revolver the "K-15"? Thanks!

March 31, 2010, 01:03 AM	#2
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	It could have been an S&W model 15, which was built on the "K" frame size and had adjustable sights in 38Spl. The fixed-sight equivalent would have been the model 10. __________________ Jim March

March 31, 2010, 08:52 AM	#6
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	No doubt about it,,, Model 15 was the handgun,,,, The Model 15 K-38 Combat Masterpiece was the standard issue sidearm for the Air Force in the early 70's. That's what I carried at 3 different duty stations. It's not difficult to find a good used one in the 300 to 450 price range,,, I found this near perfect specimen a couple of months back,,, Paid 500 for it, the box, and all factory accessories. IMHO this might be the epitome of .38 special revolvers. __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 31, 2010, 09:13 AM	#7
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	aarondhgrahm, you should post a picture with the revolver in it so we can enjoy it Yes, issue was the Smith and Wesson Model 15. 4" and blue, although some were sent back for refurbishment and came back parkerized. Aircrew guns were 2 1/2' model 15's at that time. Standard load was an anemic 130 grain FMJ. Aircrew loads were Glasser saftey slugs. Nice guns, crap ammo. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

March 31, 2010, 09:37 AM	#8
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Hello jhenry,,, I get that a lot when I post this particular picture,,, The Frankoma Pottery Fan Dancer catches the eye doesn't it. It might actually be more valuable than the handgun. Yesterday I made a find and immediately laid out the cash for it. I found a S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece,,, It's the exact same handgun but in .22 LR. I can't pick it up until Saturday though,,, Something about a 10 day wait before a pawn shop can sell a gun they have purchased from a private individual. __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 31, 2010, 01:16 AM	#3
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	72-76 we were using Model 15s, I never saw a Model 10 at any of the four bases I was at. Denis

March 31, 2010, 01:17 AM	#4
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,610	I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Air Force issued S&W M15's. Prior to S&W's change to model numbers in 1957, the M15 was known as the K-38 Combat Masterpiece. The M15 is built on S&W's K-Frame and has adjustable sights. The M15 was available in either blue or nickel with either a 2" or 4" barrel.

March 31, 2010, 03:18 AM	#5
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,116	Yes, indeed, it should have been the Model 15, as shown below in a "family" photo. The Model 15 is a medium "K" frame revolver chambered for the .38 Special, six shots, with a blue finish, adjustable rear sights, a ribbed 2" or 4" barrel with a Baughman Quick-Draw front sight. Grips were typically "magna" style walnut. The Model 15 was designed as a "better" police sidearm than the standard Model 10 M&P revolver with fixed sights. Many police officers carried a Model 15 for the better sight picture it offered and because it's weight and balance were just right for the .38 Special. Stainless Model 67 shown with 2 & 4-inch Model 15's. You can sometimes find nice pre-owned Model 15's and even police trade-in guns in very good shape in gun shops or used gun distributors. These can be a good buy if well cared for or lightly used. I personally love my 15/67 pair. They're shown wearing the target grips which suit my hand better. The snubby still wears it's original Magna grips.

March 31, 2010, 09:48 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	"I found a S&W Model 18 K-22 Combat Masterpiece,,, It's the exact same handgun but in .22 LR." I bought a Model 18 last summer. SWEET gun! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 31, 2010, 10:22 AM	#10
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Hello Mike,,, I'm itching to get her out and shoot,,, First time I've had to wait for a gun since I left California. This specimen has a lot of blue wear on all of the high spots,,, I would rate her halfway between good and very good. The cylinder locks up tight though,,, So I don't think $325 was a bad price at all. Now if I can just find a S&W Model 34 with a 2" barrel,,, I'll have a .22 LR match for all of my favorite centerfire handguns. __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 31, 2010, 03:08 PM	#11
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,559	Hey Guys... I'm an Air Force brat. I grew up in base, and local housing on several bases, and detatchments. I remember my dad sometimes carrying a revolver. My best recolection is a 4" blue steel. At the time he was assigned to the security police. I'm just wondering what jobs in the USAF required carrying the model 15's. I know the security police, and officers in missle silo's. Who else may have?... The Air Police?... Flight crews?

March 31, 2010, 04:50 PM	#12
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Hello Glen Dee,,, A lot of it depended on your unit commander,,, My first job was as a mere Maintenance Control Operator for a communications squadron,,, But since we were at Squadron HQ at night and had access to crypto gear,,, Our commander authorized (required) us to carry sidearms. When I was attached to an Army outfit in Nam,,, I carried the Model 15 revolver 24/7. Other jobs I only carried at the duty station itself. My career was weird wasn't it,,, I was never an AP or security guard,,, Yet in four out of my six jobs I was armed. __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 31, 2010, 05:24 PM	#13
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	Depends on HQ,at MAC,SAC,TAC or ATC.

March 31, 2010, 09:27 PM	#14
Nasty Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Posts: 323	4" M15 for almost all of the base personnel. Some aircrew were trained with a 2" as carried in flight, while the OSI had a couple other choices possible. My forum name on most sites is SAMTU Ray. 17 years as a Small Arms Marksmanship Training Unit instructor, 30+ years in competition. Hope this helps.

April 2, 2010, 12:39 PM	#16
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	I have read that the Air Force contract 4 inch M15's fell withen the 15-2, and 15-3 revision models.

April 2, 2010, 12:56 PM	#17
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	I'm pretty sure that J&G sales has some of the police trade in model 15's, but they were converted to DAO. I've seriously considered getting one for my dad.

April 2, 2010, 04:06 PM	#18
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	J&G Has Model 67's as well,,, Unless I have the number wrong,,, That is the stainless steel version of the model 15. Check around some other places before you commit to one of the DAO revolvers,,, It's not a rare handgun so you should be able to find an unmodified one,,, I see clean Model 15's and 67's on gunbroker all the time. Good luck in your search. __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

April 3, 2010, 02:00 AM	#19
nfafan Member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Posts: 69	Thanks all for the discussion and info!

April 7, 2010, 10:24 PM	#20
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,656	I was a Forward Air Controller flying O-1E Bird dogs in Vietnam 69-70 (my first tour) and was issued a S&W M-15 .38 Special when I arrived in-country. Ours had the skinny useless stocks, not the target models. (and part of the reason that I carried a Colt .45 instead.) Prior to that, as a range officer at the Air Force Academy from 66-68, we trained new cadets with the same guns. Much earlier cadets (in the 64-65) era were trained with a 2" barreled S&W .38 Special. All of the fighter types flying out of Bien Hoa AB, in S. Vietnam while I was there carried the Model 15 Smith as well, tho they turned theirs in after each flight to the personal equipment guys. As a FAC flying up country out of An Loc in lll Corps, we were armed 24/7, with both the hand gun and a Car 15 version of the M-16. For the bulk of my tour I left the Smith in the bunker and carried the previously mentioned, 1911A1 provided by my hosts... 5th Special Forces Berets in camp B-334. They thought highly of the green as grass shave-tail Lt. that provided their top cover while in the bush. The Smith was well made and in good condition, but the Colt did a far better job and was better suited to the mud of slit trenches and fighting positions than any revolver. I wore it in a somewhat modified "tanker's" holster across my chest out of the way of the lap belt and shoulder harness in the bird, but instantly accessible if I needed to make a run for it. On the ground in the camp, it stayed pretty much out of the mud and glop in the bunkers and I was very religious about cleaning it each night. Later, flying out of Thailand, in 72-72, I was issued the same type of Smith for in-flight carry. We turned them in each night as the base was considered secure....(Korat, and Takli). JHMO, Rodfac __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; April 7, 2010 at 10:34 PM.

April 9, 2010, 08:18 AM	#21
Nasty Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Posts: 323	RodFAC - I agree 100%. I was in the last draft myself, only 93 days in country. *WELCOME HOME*

April 9, 2010, 06:52 PM	#22
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,656	Nasty..and "Welcome Home" to you as well, sir. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

April 9, 2010, 07:30 PM	#23
Nasty Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Posts: 323	I worked for a living Sir...just a new E3 grunt (FNT) at the time. Thanks for the proper greeting to you as well.

April 9, 2010, 08:46 PM	#24
gmh1013 Member Join Date: September 10, 2009 Location: AZ Posts: 76	x sa

April 9, 2010, 09:18 PM	#25
moxie Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 513	rodfac, I was at Takhli from 29 March '73-15 Aug. '73. I was munitions and weapons safety, first for the 474TFW, later for the 6280 CSG. Went there from Tan Son Nhut, next to last plane out. Quite a day, 29 Mar. And yes the Mod. 15 Combat Masterpiece was the standard issue sidearm. It was actually a wonderful gun. The limiting factor was the anemic 130 gr. ammo that zipped along at about 650fps. Natch I caried a 1911 instead. I did a lot of work with the 20 and 21 TASS guys in RVN who had upgraded to O-2s and OV-10s by then before I went to Takhli. At Takhli I had buddies who flew Pedros but most of my time was spent supporting the F-111As. All in all I spent 23 years in the AF, from '69-'92.