Shooting

Drescher88 · March 25, 2010, 04:48 PM

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to firearms. But for some reason I will close my eyes mid trigger pull is there anyway to stop this?

P.S.

Only been shooting for past month or so.

Gun is .22 caliber only!

Also, sorry if this is the wrong place to post!

TommyW · March 25, 2010, 05:06 PM

You are, what we call, 'flinching'. This happens when you anticipate the shot.
The recoil, and the noise of the round. I found, shooting large caliber rounds, that if I force myself to open BOTH eyes while in the process of firing the round I will not only not flinch, I will score higher on the target. You are probably a new shooter and we all have gone through that stage in the learning curve. It just takes practice, practice and more practice. I'll bet that you're having a great time though. .22s are a lot of fun....

N00b_Shooter · March 25, 2010, 05:08 PM

get some snapcaps and just sit at home and dry fire a whole heap. I did it for a while with my .308 It helped with my trigger pull and breathing as well and i lost my flinch...mostly :P

Don't know if it works for everyone but I've seen an improvement on paper.

horseman308 · March 25, 2010, 05:56 PM

One of the reasons for anticipating the shot, like was mentioned above, is that people jerk the trigger instead of squeezing it. If you squeeze the trigger slowly, smoothly, and steadily, you should not know when the gun will go off. Therefore, if you don't know exactly when it will go off, it will be harder to anticipate and you'll have to keep your eyes open.

uncyboo · March 25, 2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Gun is .22 caliber only!

Regardless, you should wear your hearing protection if you haven't been. The snap cap idea is great, especially with any rimfire. Some are safe to dry fire, some are not. Snap caps are cheap insurance. It also allows you to practice safe loading and unloading.

stubbicatt · March 25, 2010, 06:22 PM

So many suggestions, so many opinions, so many ways to approach your issue. Try a few and see what works for you.

Here's what works for me. Do not concentrate on what you *see*. Concentrate rather on what you *feel* in your trigger finger. When the focus of your attention shifts from your eyes to your fingertip your flinch will largely dissipate. At least it works for me.

greyson97 · March 25, 2010, 06:47 PM

despite all the suggestions, here is what you are doing wrong
you are pulling the trigger.
you know when the gun is going to go off, and you anticipate it
the worse side effect is that you pull the trigger sending your gun/sights/barrel downwards

what you should do for both practice and live fire is slowly and gently squeeze the trigger. this prevents the barrel from taking a nose dive

but it also prevents you from knowing when the gun will go off

they say you should squeeze the trigger until the gun goes off and surprises you.

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 07:54 PM

Grayson's input is 100% to follow.

But the both eyes open point is very important. If your vision allows you to sight the weapon with both eyes open, do that. It will improve your ability to hit what you want to.

I use a scoped rifle with both eyes open. That enables me to get on target much faster than with one eye closed.

It takes a lot of practice to shoot with both eyes open, but it also takes practice to make squeezing the trigger an automatic action.

So shoot and enjoy, but make sure your 22 is designed to allow dry firing.
If you are not sure about that, make a post giving details on your weapon, and someone will advise.

Drescher88 · March 25, 2010, 08:22 PM

Great info! I was outside shooting for a few hours before it started raining, still flinching a bit but not as much as before. I also found it much easier to shoot with both eyes open while using a scope!

Couple of questions tho:

Whats the proper way to pull the trigger?

How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds?

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 08:43 PM

Couple of questions tho:

Whats the proper way to pull the trigger?
Put a piece of adhesive tape around the back half of the end joint of your trigger finger. Use what's left to SQUEEZE the trigger smoothly and steadily

How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds?
Sight the scope in at 15 feet (not a typo) to get started. Then redo as necessary at 75 feet. Finally check out and adjust for desired range.

Edward429451 · March 25, 2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Whats the proper way to pull the trigger?

Let your eye control your trigger finger. WHen your sights are on target your trigger finger pressure increases...as your sight drifts off bullseye or wheatever, trigger finger stops...as sights come back on target, trigger finger pressure increases...until the shot. You should be able to call your shots, meaning you should be paying so much attention to the front sight that when the shot breaks, you should be able to call it high left, bullseye, whatever. If you can't call your shots then you don't really know where your gun was pointing when it went off, right?

Don't pull the trigger, press a button straight back.

Drescher88 · March 25, 2010, 09:17 PM

Couple of questions tho:

Whats the proper way to pull the trigger?
"Put a piece of adhesive tape around the back half of the end joint of your trigger finger. Use what's left to SQUEEZE the trigger smoothly and steadily"

How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds?
Sight the scope in at 15 feet (not a typo) to get started. Then redo as necessary at 75 feet. Finally check out and adjust for desired range.

Uh, I'm kinda confused by the tape trick can you explain?

sdj · March 25, 2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Here's what works for me. Do not concentrate on what you *see*. Concentrate rather on what you *feel* in your trigger finger. When the focus of your attention shifts from your eyes to your fingertip your flinch will largely dissipate. At least it works for me.

I had gotten similar advice when I was first starting out. It was some of the best advice I ever received (in regard to firearms, anyway!)

Later, the technique that stubicatt describes was confirmed in training classes. Turns out the informal lessons I had received on the range (from long-time shooters) was spot on.

Good luck.

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 09:26 PM

The tape is just a mechanism to remind one to use the sensitive finger tip, and not to hook the finger joint around the trigger.

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 09:34 PM

Edward is getting into the fine point of scores.

It just so happens that I am not good enough to follow his advice. I, like a great many shooters, will still pull the trigger to some extent when the sights are dead on, trying to get the shot off while it is 'perfect'. Result is often poorer shooting rather than better.

I would encourage a controlled squeeze to detonation, while holding as best you can. This guarantees you don't know when it fires. After open eyes and squeeze are automatic, you can practice staged trigger squeeze.

I now await the rebuttals on this.

greyson97 · March 25, 2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Whats the proper way to pull the trigger?

I use the finger print part of my index finger. some people use the first crease. FOR ME. when i use the first crease, it sends my shots to the left an inch at 7 yards.

the goal is to pull the trigger straight back without pushing/tilting/rotating the gun off target. the "more" finger you use, the more you end up pushing the gun off target, right handers push it to the left and vice versa

so you want the line of motion the part of your finger that contacts the trigger to be in a straight line, and not a curved line.

its counter intuitive cause thats the normal motion your finger makes, a curve

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 10:10 PM

And that is the basis for the tape idea.

Mike38 · March 25, 2010, 10:21 PM

Drescher88, Do not use the phrases "squeeze the trigger" or “pull the trigger”. Get those thoughts out of your head. Pulling the trigger causes a jerky movement, sometime throughout the entire body, (flinching). When you think squeeze, you usually close all four fingers and thumb together at the same time as in making a fist. What you want to do and what you want to think is “press the trigger”. The pressure put on the trigger must come from the trigger finger only. The gripping fingers and thumb do not move. Think about pressing the pad of your trigger finger into the palm of the hand. Slowly, smoothly and steadily press your finger reward into your palm, while keeping a laser like focus on the front sight. The gun will discharge before your mind can register the report from the gun. Then as soon as that report has registered, concentrate on follow through, keeping the front sight on target. All of the above happened and you only got off one shot. Bench the rifle and analyze what just happened. Did you do something wrong? What can you do to correct it? Regrasp the gun and start the process over again. Now you have two shots down range. If the elapsed time was sooner then two minutes, you’re too fast, slow it down. Think. Concentrate on “pressing the trigger” Think. Concentrate on that front sight. P--r--e--s--s that trigger rewards, don’t squeeze, don’t pull. Is the front sight in focus? Bang. The gun just discharged again before you even had time to react. Now did you immediately switch from concentrating on trigger press to follow through? If you did you will hardly have even noticed the firearm discharging.

Now the above is easier said then done. It takes time. It may take lots of time, but it can be done. In reality there is a controlled but violent explosion happening in the palm of your hand, less then a foot from your face. Your mind is telling you this, thus you flinch. If you can focus your mind on the basic fundamentals of shooting, concentrate hard on these basics, you can over ride what happens naturally in the mind.

Buzzcook · March 25, 2010, 10:31 PM

Let's see. Hearing protection, use only the end of the trigger finger, both eyes open, snap caps, and dry firing. All good suggestions.

So how about lessons? Give those a try.

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 10:34 PM

Kuuduus to Mike. I am guilty.

I have for many moons used the term squeeze, because Grampa or my senior instructor did.

If you place the handgun firmly in the web of your hand, and hold it without a limp wrist, you really can't 'squeeze' the trigger, you have to "press" it.

bobelk99 · March 25, 2010, 11:02 PM

Let's see. Hearing protection, use only the end of the trigger finger, both eyes open, snap caps, and dry firing. All good suggestions.

So how about lessons? Give those a try.

Buzz:
You brought it up. What are your thoughts?

Buzzcook · March 28, 2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Buzz:
You brought it up. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that lessons are a very good thing. From a basic handgun safety class on up. I have seen the difference between folks that go it on their own and those that get instruction many times. Frequently wives that come to the sport later than their husbands often become better shots because they take classes.
I also think new shooters should also get involved with low end competition.

Edward429451 · March 28, 2010, 02:31 PM

Develop followthrough. Quoting Brian Enos...look through the shot, keep seeing!

I got more out of reading Enos's book than going to a class. He writes really well.

handlerer · March 28, 2010, 04:10 PM

All of the advice that I have seen so far is reasonable. Keeping in mind all of the tips, sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze, posture, and follow through. Get out and shoot and it will happen. Use a rest to get a steadier sight picture at first so you can get the feel for what is right. Eventually you will be conditioned and won't have to really think about it. Kind of like a tennis serve, the first time I tried it, it was a joke, but I listened and kept trying and it eventually happened and when it happened it felt right. When you pull the trigger on a good shot, it feels right. The trick is to keep that feeling.

March 25, 2010, 04:48 PM	#1
Drescher88 Junior Member Join Date: March 25, 2010 Posts: 11	Shooting I'm a complete newbie when it comes to firearms. But for some reason I will close my eyes mid trigger pull is there anyway to stop this? P.S. Only been shooting for past month or so. Gun is .22 caliber only! Also, sorry if this is the wrong place to post!

March 25, 2010, 05:06 PM	#2
TommyW Member Join Date: January 26, 2010 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 33	I'll try this one You are, what we call, 'flinching'. This happens when you anticipate the shot. The recoil, and the noise of the round. I found, shooting large caliber rounds, that if I force myself to open BOTH eyes while in the process of firing the round I will not only not flinch, I will score higher on the target. You are probably a new shooter and we all have gone through that stage in the learning curve. It just takes practice, practice and more practice. I'll bet that you're having a great time though. .22s are a lot of fun....

March 25, 2010, 05:56 PM	#4
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	One of the reasons for anticipating the shot, like was mentioned above, is that people jerk the trigger instead of squeezing it. If you squeeze the trigger slowly, smoothly, and steadily, you should not know when the gun will go off. Therefore, if you don't know exactly when it will go off, it will be harder to anticipate and you'll have to keep your eyes open. __________________ You only take one shot at a time - make it count.

March 25, 2010, 10:21 PM	#18
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,758	Drescher88, Do not use the phrases "squeeze the trigger" or “pull the trigger”. Get those thoughts out of your head. Pulling the trigger causes a jerky movement, sometime throughout the entire body, (flinching). When you think squeeze, you usually close all four fingers and thumb together at the same time as in making a fist. What you want to do and what you want to think is “press the trigger”. The pressure put on the trigger must come from the trigger finger only. The gripping fingers and thumb do not move. Think about pressing the pad of your trigger finger into the palm of the hand. Slowly, smoothly and steadily press your finger reward into your palm, while keeping a laser like focus on the front sight. The gun will discharge before your mind can register the report from the gun. Then as soon as that report has registered, concentrate on follow through, keeping the front sight on target. All of the above happened and you only got off one shot. Bench the rifle and analyze what just happened. Did you do something wrong? What can you do to correct it? Regrasp the gun and start the process over again. Now you have two shots down range. If the elapsed time was sooner then two minutes, you’re too fast, slow it down. Think. Concentrate on “pressing the trigger” Think. Concentrate on that front sight. P--r--e--s--s that trigger rewards, don’t squeeze, don’t pull. Is the front sight in focus? Bang. The gun just discharged again before you even had time to react. Now did you immediately switch from concentrating on trigger press to follow through? If you did you will hardly have even noticed the firearm discharging. Now the above is easier said then done. It takes time. It may take lots of time, but it can be done. In reality there is a controlled but violent explosion happening in the palm of your hand, less then a foot from your face. Your mind is telling you this, thus you flinch. If you can focus your mind on the basic fundamentals of shooting, concentrate hard on these basics, you can over ride what happens naturally in the mind. Last edited by Mike38; March 25, 2010 at 10:36 PM.

March 25, 2010, 11:02 PM	#21
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	Lessons Let's see. Hearing protection, use only the end of the trigger finger, both eyes open, snap caps, and dry firing. All good suggestions. So how about lessons? Give those a try. Buzz: You brought it up. What are your thoughts?

March 25, 2010, 05:08 PM	#3
N00b_Shooter Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 307	get some snapcaps and just sit at home and dry fire a whole heap. I did it for a while with my .308 It helped with my trigger pull and breathing as well and i lost my flinch...mostly :P Don't know if it works for everyone but I've seen an improvement on paper.

March 25, 2010, 06:22 PM	#6
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	So many suggestions, so many opinions, so many ways to approach your issue. Try a few and see what works for you. Here's what works for me. Do not concentrate on what you see. Concentrate rather on what you feel in your trigger finger. When the focus of your attention shifts from your eyes to your fingertip your flinch will largely dissipate. At least it works for me.

March 25, 2010, 06:47 PM	#7
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	despite all the suggestions, here is what you are doing wrong you are pulling the trigger. you know when the gun is going to go off, and you anticipate it the worse side effect is that you pull the trigger sending your gun/sights/barrel downwards what you should do for both practice and live fire is slowly and gently squeeze the trigger. this prevents the barrel from taking a nose dive but it also prevents you from knowing when the gun will go off they say you should squeeze the trigger until the gun goes off and surprises you.

March 25, 2010, 07:54 PM	#8
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	Grayson's input is 100% to follow. But the both eyes open point is very important. If your vision allows you to sight the weapon with both eyes open, do that. It will improve your ability to hit what you want to. I use a scoped rifle with both eyes open. That enables me to get on target much faster than with one eye closed. It takes a lot of practice to shoot with both eyes open, but it also takes practice to make squeezing the trigger an automatic action. So shoot and enjoy, but make sure your 22 is designed to allow dry firing. If you are not sure about that, make a post giving details on your weapon, and someone will advise.

March 25, 2010, 08:22 PM	#9
Drescher88 Junior Member Join Date: March 25, 2010 Posts: 11	Great info! I was outside shooting for a few hours before it started raining, still flinching a bit but not as much as before. I also found it much easier to shoot with both eyes open while using a scope! Couple of questions tho: Whats the proper way to pull the trigger? How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds?

March 25, 2010, 08:43 PM	#10
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	Couple of questions tho: Whats the proper way to pull the trigger? Put a piece of adhesive tape around the back half of the end joint of your trigger finger. Use what's left to SQUEEZE the trigger smoothly and steadily How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds? Sight the scope in at 15 feet (not a typo) to get started. Then redo as necessary at 75 feet. Finally check out and adjust for desired range.

March 25, 2010, 09:17 PM	#12
Drescher88 Junior Member Join Date: March 25, 2010 Posts: 11	Couple of questions tho: Whats the proper way to pull the trigger? "Put a piece of adhesive tape around the back half of the end joint of your trigger finger. Use what's left to SQUEEZE the trigger smoothly and steadily" How can I zero my scope without firing 100's of rounds? Sight the scope in at 15 feet (not a typo) to get started. Then redo as necessary at 75 feet. Finally check out and adjust for desired range. Uh, I'm kinda confused by the tape trick can you explain?

March 25, 2010, 09:26 PM	#14
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	The tape is just a mechanism to remind one to use the sensitive finger tip, and not to hook the finger joint around the trigger.

March 25, 2010, 09:34 PM	#15
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	Edward is getting into the fine point of scores. It just so happens that I am not good enough to follow his advice. I, like a great many shooters, will still pull the trigger to some extent when the sights are dead on, trying to get the shot off while it is 'perfect'. Result is often poorer shooting rather than better. I would encourage a controlled squeeze to detonation, while holding as best you can. This guarantees you don't know when it fires. After open eyes and squeeze are automatic, you can practice staged trigger squeeze. I now await the rebuttals on this.

March 25, 2010, 10:10 PM	#17
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	And that is the basis for the tape idea.

March 25, 2010, 10:31 PM	#19
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Let's see. Hearing protection, use only the end of the trigger finger, both eyes open, snap caps, and dry firing. All good suggestions. So how about lessons? Give those a try.

March 25, 2010, 10:34 PM	#20
bobelk99 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Central KY Posts: 220	Kuuduus to Mike. I am guilty. I have for many moons used the term squeeze, because Grampa or my senior instructor did. If you place the handgun firmly in the web of your hand, and hold it without a limp wrist, you really can't 'squeeze' the trigger, you have to "press" it.

March 28, 2010, 02:31 PM	#23
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Develop followthrough. Quoting Brian Enos...look through the shot, keep seeing! I got more out of reading Enos's book than going to a class. He writes really well.

March 28, 2010, 04:10 PM	#24
handlerer Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2007 Location: Billings,MT Posts: 277	All of the advice that I have seen so far is reasonable. Keeping in mind all of the tips, sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze, posture, and follow through. Get out and shoot and it will happen. Use a rest to get a steadier sight picture at first so you can get the feel for what is right. Eventually you will be conditioned and won't have to really think about it. Kind of like a tennis serve, the first time I tried it, it was a joke, but I listened and kept trying and it eventually happened and when it happened it felt right. When you pull the trigger on a good shot, it feels right. The trick is to keep that feeling.