115 gr. bullet for .380 ACP LCP?

spacecoast · December 11, 2009, 02:51 PM

I have some plated 115 gr. .355" dia. RN bullets that I bought for 9mm but would might rather deploy in .380 for use at the range. Has anyone ever used a bullet that heavy for .380, especially in a light gun like the LCP? What can I expect? I am thinking that 3-3.5 grains of Titegroup would be OK for this, the lower amount to start. Handloads.com lists the use of either 4.0 gr. of Unique or 3.6 gr. of W231 for this.

Thanks in advance...

Foxbat · December 11, 2009, 03:25 PM

You have to be VERY careful with loads like that. With such a heavy bullet there is little space left for powder, so small variations in bullet length and seating depth will produce huge variations in pressure. How long are your bullets? Many round noses would be 15mm long, some even longer. The JHP's are usually shorter, so be careful! Start lower than those guys recommend.

spacecoast · December 11, 2009, 03:36 PM

Thanks for the warning, I may just wait for my 100 gr. bullet order to come in.

FrankenMauser · December 11, 2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Handloads.com lists the use of either 4.0 gr. of Unique or 3.6 gr. of W231 for this.

Even for 100gr bullets, both of those loads are beyond maximum in all of my reloading manuals.

Quote:

I am thinking that 3-3.5 grains of Titegroup would be OK for this, the lower amount to start.

Again... beyond maximum, in my manuals. (For 100gr data).

I would probably try to stay in the Unique/W231/HP-38/AA#2 burn rate neighborhood; anything else might be too quick.

One thing I have found with the .380, especially with heavier bullets:
Your starting loads, and maximum loads will have almost no margin for error. Many loads will span no more than 0.3 grains, from starting, to max.
This is the very reason I stopped loading my .380 with Titegroup. I couldn't get 0.1gr consistency from my powder measure (at that charge weight). If I was 0.1gr over my charge weight, primers were horribly flattened. If I was 0.1gr under... I had cycling issues. I grew tired of hand weighing every, tiny charge, and moved on to W231/Unique. (I liked how Titegroup performed, but not reloading with it.)

Foxbat · December 11, 2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the warning, I may just wait for my 100 gr. bullet order to come in.

Since I am a risk taker, I would be tempted to try it, but probably with starting load of 2.2 grains, or so. In fact, I am now curious how heavy bullets would feel in my LCP.

spacecoast · December 11, 2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Again... beyond maximum, in my manuals. (For 100gr data).

Yes... I wasn't implying that this was a correct load for a 100 gr. bullet.

Quote:

I would probably try to stay in the Unique/W231/HP-38/AA#2 burn rate neighborhood; anything else might be too quick.

I also have some AA#2, do you recommend that vs. Titegroup? I believe I have 100gr. load data for each.

Stargazer · December 11, 2009, 07:33 PM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have used as much as 4.4 grains of Unique with 90-95 grain bullets and while nothing came apart I decided to back down to 4.2 as my MAX. The cases were a little "guppied" at 4.4 so I backed her down some. You may want to start even lower than that 4 grains mentioned with a heavier bullet. Pistol is an LCP. Only a suggestion from my experience with this caliber, no flames intended.

FrankenMauser · December 12, 2009, 03:37 AM

Quote:

I have used as much as 4.4 grains of Unique with 90-95 grain bullets and while nothing came apart I decided to back down to 4.2 as my MAX.

The .380 Auto has very little margin for error. A 115 grain bullet has 121% of the mass of a 95gr bullet, and 127% of the mass of a 90gr bullet. That is very significant. It's equivalent to using .270 Winchester 130gr load data for a 165gr bullet. Nothing but an invitation to reconstructive surgery.

Quote:

I also have some AA#2, do you recommend that vs. Titegroup? I believe I have 100gr. load data for each.

I would definitely use the AA#2 over Titegroup, but I can't recommend a starting charge.

RidgwayCO · December 12, 2009, 11:38 AM

The Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook (pg 339) has pressure-tested .380 Auto loads for a 115gr jacketed HP bullet (looks like a Hornady HP/XTP in the picture). The listed loads are with powders ranging from Bullseye to HS-6. Be careful loading your round nose bullets, as using the same COL as a hollow point bullet could lead you to seat the round nose bullet deeper in the case, raising pressures an unknown (and possibly dangerous) amount.

spacecoast · December 12, 2009, 09:30 PM

Can anyone recommend a starting load and OAL for a 95 gr. LRN with either Titegroup or Accurate #2?

RidgwayCO · December 12, 2009, 10:01 PM

For a .380 Auto plinking load, I use 2.7gr of AA #2 behind a Tennessee Valley 95gr LRN bullet (COL = .950" and using a CCI 500 primer). This gives me 840 fps out of my Beretta 84 (3.8" barrel), and 830 fps out of the Bersa 95 (3.5" barrel). Very accurate, very clean, and the brass makes a nice little pile a couple of feet to my right.

2.7gr of Titegroup gives me very similar performance. However, I like the way AA #2 burns and meters better. No "Titegroup stain" on the brass...

RidgwayCO · December 12, 2009, 10:04 PM

Duplicate post...

spacecoast · December 12, 2009, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the info, I have loaded a dozen rounds with 2.7 gr. of AA#2 and a COL of .97" to account for possible bullet variations and to err a little on the conservative side with regards to pressure. I have some WWB and some commercial reloads to compare with, which should be interesting.

December 11, 2009, 02:51 PM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	115 gr. bullet for .380 ACP LCP? I have some plated 115 gr. .355" dia. RN bullets that I bought for 9mm but would might rather deploy in .380 for use at the range. Has anyone ever used a bullet that heavy for .380, especially in a light gun like the LCP? What can I expect? I am thinking that 3-3.5 grains of Titegroup would be OK for this, the lower amount to start. Handloads.com lists the use of either 4.0 gr. of Unique or 3.6 gr. of W231 for this. Thanks in advance...

December 11, 2009, 03:25 PM	#2
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	You have to be VERY careful with loads like that. With such a heavy bullet there is little space left for powder, so small variations in bullet length and seating depth will produce huge variations in pressure. How long are your bullets? Many round noses would be 15mm long, some even longer. The JHP's are usually shorter, so be careful! Start lower than those guys recommend.

December 11, 2009, 03:36 PM	#3
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Thanks for the warning, I may just wait for my 100 gr. bullet order to come in.

December 11, 2009, 07:33 PM	#7
Stargazer Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 506	CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. I have used as much as 4.4 grains of Unique with 90-95 grain bullets and while nothing came apart I decided to back down to 4.2 as my MAX. The cases were a little "guppied" at 4.4 so I backed her down some. You may want to start even lower than that 4 grains mentioned with a heavier bullet. Pistol is an LCP. Only a suggestion from my experience with this caliber, no flames intended.

December 12, 2009, 11:38 AM	#9
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	The Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook (pg 339) has pressure-tested .380 Auto loads for a 115gr jacketed HP bullet (looks like a Hornady HP/XTP in the picture). The listed loads are with powders ranging from Bullseye to HS-6. Be careful loading your round nose bullets, as using the same COL as a hollow point bullet could lead you to seat the round nose bullet deeper in the case, raising pressures an unknown (and possibly dangerous) amount.

December 12, 2009, 09:30 PM	#10
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Can anyone recommend a starting load and OAL for a 95 gr. LRN with either Titegroup or Accurate #2?

December 12, 2009, 10:01 PM	#11
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	For a .380 Auto plinking load, I use 2.7gr of AA #2 behind a Tennessee Valley 95gr LRN bullet (COL = .950" and using a CCI 500 primer). This gives me 840 fps out of my Beretta 84 (3.8" barrel), and 830 fps out of the Bersa 95 (3.5" barrel). Very accurate, very clean, and the brass makes a nice little pile a couple of feet to my right. 2.7gr of Titegroup gives me very similar performance. However, I like the way AA #2 burns and meters better. No "Titegroup stain" on the brass...

December 12, 2009, 10:04 PM	#12
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	Duplicate post...

December 12, 2009, 10:36 PM	#13
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Thanks for the info, I have loaded a dozen rounds with 2.7 gr. of AA#2 and a COL of .97" to account for possible bullet variations and to err a little on the conservative side with regards to pressure. I have some WWB and some commercial reloads to compare with, which should be interesting.