Tactical hearing protection for home defense

SPUSCG · November 20, 2009, 11:33 PM

Ive heard of "tactical" hearing protection that blocks big noise (like gunshots) so you dont go deaf from firing indoors if you ever need too, but amplifiys small noise like footsteps to help you in hearing what you need too. Who amkes these, and do they live up to the hype? Anyone use them?

Terry A · November 21, 2009, 12:24 AM

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/EAR111-1.html

I don't use them. I have a friend who bought this and he likes it, that's how I knew about the link I posted.

bbqbob51 · November 21, 2009, 01:35 AM

You can get them cheaper than that at Cabelas as well as Sportsman's Guide. I think I paid $24.95 aand $19.95 respectively. Some of these units run into the hundreds of dollars, the ones I have work fine. They magnify low sounds and muffle loud ones.

wally626 · November 21, 2009, 12:35 PM

Bought a cheap pair on amazon (Caldwell E-Max Electronic Hearing Protection Standard Md: 497-700,
$23.75). Mine has stereo mics. They are essentially regular hearing protection muffs with a mic and amplifier. Normal sounds transmit to your ear. The mic/amp will not transmit loud noise. If the sound system fails you have normal ear muffs. I use a set of 12db musician ear plugs inside mine because I find the 26db rating to be less than I would like for sound suppression. The muffs still provide enough amplification for me to hear normal conversation thru the inner plugs and are very quiet when shooting. The better ones provide better hearing protection and better sound amplifiers and features like auto off so you do not drain a set of batteries after you forget to shut of the headphones.

Phoebe · November 21, 2009, 04:25 PM

I have electronic ears but they are for range use. I don't even bother to keep them next to my bed.

In reality, if someone has broken into your home, I'd think you would not have time to put the ears on your head and turn them on, nor is that how you'd want to spend precious moments.

I don't know from first hand experience, but have read that in an SD situation, you really don't hear the gun fire anyway. Adrenaline dump seems to shut the ears down.

Regardless, if my life is in danger, potential hearing loss would be a tiny price to pay if I could stay safe.

Evan Thomas · November 21, 2009, 05:03 PM

This comes up pretty regularly, and always turns into an is-too-is-not fest between the people who say "Yes, good idea..." and the people who say "It's a waste, you won't have time to use it..."

Then a bunch of people don't read carefully and get all huffy because they think someone is advocating non-electronic muffs which block all sound -- obviously a bad idea in an HD situation, and nothing anyone ever actually suggests...

There's a good discussion of the general issue of hearing protection and hearing damage in this thread -- it was stickied for a while, and then unstuck for some reason. It should be required reading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

In reality, if someone has broken into your home, I'd think you would not have time to put the ears on your head and turn them on, nor is that how you'd want to spend precious moments.

I don't know from first hand experience, but have read that in an SD situation, you really don't hear the gun fire anyway. Adrenaline dump seems to shut the ears down.

It's very important to note that even if you don't hear the gun, your hearing will still be damaged. The not-hearing-the-gun thing happens at the level of the brain, and the hearing damage happens in the inner ear.

As to your point about time, Phoebe -- it all depends. If someone breaks in to your house while you're sitting in the living room, of course you won't say "Oh, hold on while I plug my ears." You'll just do what you need to do.

But if someone breaks in at night, I'm not leaving the (upstairs) bedroom -- the plan is to call 911, announce to the intruder that I'm armed and the police are on the way, and hunker down. So in that situation, I think I probably would have time to grab hearing protection, and I keep a pair of those air-valve plugs at hand. They're not as effective as good electronic muffs, but a lot better than nothing, and I don't have to worry about turning them on, or the battery running out -- just about whether when push comes to shove my hands will be shaking too hard to insert them.

If I can get them in, great, if not, well, it didn't hurt to try.

Hearing loss really is disabling. If I can prevent or minimize it, I will.

wally626 · November 21, 2009, 05:27 PM

I use my electronic hearing protection for range use but I do keep them next to my night (day and evening gun for that matter). They would be third on the list of things to get if there is enough time. Get the gun, get the spare ammo, then if the threat is not imminent put on the ear muffs. If someone is breaking down the door, I would not wait on ear protection, but if I hear something strange and just need to check it out, then I would put them on.

Phoebe · November 21, 2009, 05:40 PM

Vanya, I guess I relate it to my own experience too much. I am not assuming the leisure of hunkering down. I'd grab my gun, flashlight and if I can, phone. Anything else is way down the list, even if I'm just hearing a noise.

I do have stun gun and pepper spray next to my bed but likely wouldn't grab that stuff either.

I'm not pro hearing damage.

Just pragmatically speaking, it wouldn't be at the top of my stack.

Purportedly, there is a physical effect of the ear actually closing under many circumstances of adrenalin dump. I would not want to count on it, but it's more than not hearing it. It's a physiological thing in the ear. See Lt Grossman's book, "On Combat" for details.

Evan Thomas · November 21, 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

Purportedly, there is a physical effect of the ear actually closing under many circumstances of adrenalin dump. I would not want to count on it, but it's more than not hearing it. It's a physiological thing in the ear. See Lt Grossman's book, "On Combat" for details.

Actually, there are a couple of things going on here: first, an adrenaline dump triggers a couple of things that are somewhat protective of hearing: contraction of small muscles around the eardrum change the way it responds to sound pressure, and the eustachian tube, which connects the middle ear to the throat, opens up, which also relieves pressure and helps to protect the ear. The effect of this is to raise the absolute threshold of hearing somewhat, so in general, sounds aren't as loud.

The other effect of the adrenaline, which seems to be responsible for the don't-hear-the-shot thing, is something called auditory exclusion, which is an attentional process happening at the level of the cortex -- in effect, the brain decides which sounds are important and filters out others.

The peripheral stuff isn't sufficient to protect the inner ear from a loud impulse noise like a gunshot, and the cortical stuff... just has no effect. The peripheral changes may even work against you, as they reduce the loudness of soft sounds as well as more intense ones, so you may be a bit less likely to hear the ones you need to.

Phoebe · November 21, 2009, 06:34 PM

Vanya, yes, those are all things Grossman mentions. However, he claims that the physiological changes DO provide protection from hearing loss when they occur.

IIRC, he claims that most LEO shootings do not result in hearing damage due to this mechanism, and in fact most LEO do not report ringing in the ears, etc, and that can't be due to auditory exclusion. You'd expect that ringing to last for hours.

I claim no expertise. I read a book by a man (Grossman) who seems to be credible and am just passing on what I read.

And with that, I will shut up now.

m&p45acp10+1 · November 21, 2009, 06:48 PM

I know a good hearing specialist that I have to see at least 2 times a year. (I am going deaf from hereditary hearing loss) He is also an avid collector of guns, and I see him at the range occasionaly. He says that firing off a couple of rounds indoors would not result in permant deafness. You cause more hearing damage running a lawnmower for 30 minutes without hearing protection, than you would firing a handgun a couple of rounds. In fact most vacume cleaners are at a high enough Db level to cause hearing damage. It is not just how loud it is to you, it is how long you are exposed to it.

Evan Thomas · November 21, 2009, 08:25 PM

Phoebe, there's some protective effect from those peripheral changes -- and outdoors, it might do some good, sometimes, for some people. But firing a shotgun indoors? I'll avoid finding out if at all possible.

Not saying it doesn't have some effect, but I think some writers, such as Grossman, overrate it. For obvious reasons, there's a lot of interest in this phenomenon in the gun world, and especially among military/law enforcement types; it's easy to see why people want to believe their hearing will automatically be protected in a "for-real" shootout. But all the reports of a major protective effect are anecdotal, so they're not too useful. Many people will tell you they've shot for years under normal conditions, with no protection, without any hearing loss, and some of them may be right, too.

And there are also plenty of anecdotal reports from people who say, "I didn't hear the shots at the time, but later my ears rang like crazy..." (Which means they had at a minimum, some temporary hearing loss.)

One way or another -- with or without auditory exclusion -- if you do have to fire a weapon without ear protection, you're likely to be at least temporarily deafened, as will your opponent. With muffs or plugs, not so much, which is a tactical advantage I'd like to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m&p45acp10+1

You cause more hearing damage running a lawnmower for 30 minutes without hearing protection, than you would firing a handgun a couple of rounds. In fact most vacume cleaners are at a high enough Db level to cause hearing damage. It is not just how loud it is to you, it is how long you are exposed to it.

Yah... although the vacuum is a bit of an "it depends..."

Vacuum cleaner... 70 db (typical shop-vac, more like 80-90 dB)
Lawnmower: 90 db...
12 ga. shotgun... 155 dB
9mm handgun... 160 dB

80-85 dB is usually given as the threshold for "hazardous with continuous exposure." The pain threshold is around 120 dB, and impulse noise at 150 dB or more can cause some hearing loss with a single exposure. And being in a reverberant environment makes things worse, as anyone knows who's been to an indoor range.

Not sure about the 30 minute thing, off the top of my head, but I have a lot of sets of earmuffs... in the shop, the garage, the shooting bag.

**JohnKSa** · November 21, 2009, 11:15 PM

A couple of interesting points.

Some of Hasan's victims in the Ft. Hood shooting report being deafened by the shots. One victim went to cover but peeked up to see what was going on because he couldn't hear anything at all after the first burst of shots. He was shot when he looked up. Clearly his situational awareness was impaired by the deafening effect of the shots and his injury was likely a result of his not being able to tell what was going on without moving and giving away his position. Obviously there was no opportunity to use hearing protection in such a situation but it does point out that shots can deafen a person and that being deaf in a life or death situation can put you at a huge disadvantage.

The second thing was a brief comment I read in a "Ranging Shots" column by Clint Smith in the Nov 2009 issue of Guns Magazine. He reports that "...I keep a pair in the bedroom if they might be needed at night because I think they could help in a personal defense mode." Thought it was interesting because that's the first time I've seen an "expert" recommend them for home defense although I've thought for some time that having good quality electronic hearing protection available might provide an advantage in a home defense scenario--as well as protecting one's hearing.

Before anyone goes nuts about this, let me point out that I am NOT advocating that one should dive for the hearing protection in an emergency. But for investigating the typical "bump-in-the-night" scenario, a good set of electronic hearing protectors can really be a help--and if things go bad they can give the user an edge.

SPUSCG · November 22, 2009, 12:18 AM

I like the idea of amplifyin small noises, like bein able to pick up voices better so i can hear how many people may have broken in, etc.

Double Naught Spy · November 22, 2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

In reality, if someone has broken into your home, I'd think you would not have time to put the ears on your head and turn them on, nor is that how you'd want to spend precious moments.

There are all kinds of break-ins. I have listened to enough 911 calls to know that there are a lot of instances where people have a lot of time to prepare for a home invader to work their way through the house, including accounts of people getting a gun out of one safe and ammo out of a cabinet and loading their gun. There are people who have time to barricade themselves inside their room. There are those who take the time to search through their house in order to find the intruder. There are those who camp out at the top of the stairs and await the intruder to attempt to come up stairs.

So yeah, I think that in many situations, there is not only time, but a lot of time.

Of course, there are situations where there is no time. There are folks who have been awakened by intruders only after the intruder has gained entry into the bedroom, for example.

So it just depends on the situation.

I know that I wear my Peltors when investigating bumps in the night. Bumps in the night is a perfect example of when such hearing protection may be useful. There is no known immediate threat, but just unknown sound.

Evan Thomas · November 23, 2009, 12:59 PM

I think I'm sorta responsible for a bit of thread veer here... mea culpa.

Getting back to the OP's first question, which was

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUSCG

Who [makes] these, and do they live up to the hype?

I found this post in another thread extremely informative:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sholling

Electronic muffs differ from passive muffs in that they use a microphone and amplifier to bring you the sounds of the outside world. They then protect your hearing by limiting what they let through. The big difference between the cheap muffs and the good ones is the way they go about limiting harmful sounds and how well they work. The cheap muffs shut off the microphone when they detect a loud noise. What that means for you is that you get a stutter effect and when the instructor is talking during shooting he will get cut off with every shot. Bottom line this might be acceptable for normal range trips but it sucks royally when attending a class. The real cheapies intended for use with power tools also tend to react too slowly to loud transient sounds like gunshots. In other words by the time they kill the mic some small amount of damage may have already been done.

Instead of cutting off the mic good mid-priced muffs like the Peltor 6S and Peltor 7S adjust the volume of the dangerously loud noises (and only the dangerously loud noises) down to a safe level. What that means to you is that the instructor comes across clearly even while there are rounds going off in the background. Bottom line you hear everything normally but nothing is loud. The 6S doesn't really block enough sound (19dba) so of the two the 7S (26dba) is a better choice. Both are kind of big and are thus better suited to use with a pistol than a rifle or shotgun.

What the step up to premium grade headphones gives you is smaller size, quicker response, and some really nice bells and whistles. The pricey Pro Ears Predator Gold are small and cupped to clear the stock of a rifle or shotgun yet block as much noise as the bulky Peltor 7S. They react extremely quickly adding to their protection. They also provide up to 7db of amplification for use while hunting, investigating noises at home, or listening to the instructor. Finally they shut themselves off after a few hours saving batteries should you forget.

I use the Pro Ears Predator Gold and recommend them highly.

With any of these I highly recommend bringing spare batteries to the class.

Stevie-Ray · November 23, 2009, 07:31 PM

I just today ordered the pair Wally spoke of. They may be inexpensive, but they're certainly rated rather well, on many sites. As he said, a pair of plugs underneath for the range, and keep them close to the bed in case there's a need and the time to don them.

wally626 · November 23, 2009, 08:12 PM

I will note the ear plugs I use are only 12db and made for passing clear sounds so they still allows the amplified noise to reach the ear clearly. If you are using the normal 26db ear plugs you may not get the advantage of the microphones much.

The ear plugs were from http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx they are listed as 20db but have a 12db rating. Not sure what the difference arises from except for different standards used in measuring the sound reduction.

Edit to add, I was using them today at the range shooting with my son. Pretty cool effect, the gun would go off and you get the normal muffled thump of a gun shot through ear muffs then I could hear the brass tinkling as it hit the concrete floor.

Double Naught Spy · November 23, 2009, 08:16 PM

nrr of 12 would not be good considering so many are 18, 20, and above.

(BH) · November 23, 2009, 09:35 PM

I currently don't own any of these at this time. I'm not opposed to them, nir are they on my must buy list. I do, however, have some concerns about using them.

1. How good is the surround sound on these? I mean, the amplification of quiet sounds is great, if you can tell where these quiet sounds are coming from. I'd rather risk hearing loss than risk not knowing where the BG is. I wouldn't want to trying to listen and think this guy was in my kitchen when he was actually in my kid's room.

2. Would they interfere with the use of a cell phone (ie calling the cops)? I doubt this would be a big deal, but I don't want to be deafened by the phone either.

3. What if there is other ambient noise occurring in your house? I'm sure that it would be amplified as well, and could interfere with your hearing.

4. I trust my hearing as is. I only trust technology to a certain degree. I'm not saying that I could never trust any form of electronic hearing protection, but I would have to do some experimenting of my own before I did trust them.

Hook686 · November 23, 2009, 10:24 PM

I have lost hearing in one ear. I bought a Walker Game Ear and it works very well. It has the typical 'insert in the ear' adaptor that does not work as well to dampen the sound as the plug style adapter, but for a one time home defense, or out and about scenario I think it offers better protection than nothing. I wear it during the day and have it by my handgun at night.

I find this not a problem to pick up and insert in my ear. It is already on when I'm in my car and, as folks have said, a gunshot in a car can be very damaging. I figure any protection is better than none.

Out in the field, the sound amplification is a real plus. I imagine this would also work for monitoring the house in the event of a breakin.

If you have time to put it in your ear, then it will benefit you. If you don't have the time, it won't matter anyway.

http://www.walkersgameear.com/enhancement_hdSeries.html

wally626 · November 23, 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

nrr of 12 would not be good considering so many are 18, 20, and above.

The 12db was for ear canal plugs worn in addition to the electronic ear muffs which are rated for 26db.

**JohnKSa** · November 24, 2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

1. How good is the surround sound on these? I mean, the amplification of quiet sounds is great, if you can tell where these quiet sounds are coming from. I'd rather risk hearing loss than risk not knowing where the BG is. I wouldn't want to trying to listen and think this guy was in my kitchen when he was actually in my kid's room.

The better models will provide properly balanced binaural hearing which will allow you to locate sounds normally.

Quote:

2. Would they interfere with the use of a cell phone (ie calling the cops)? I doubt this would be a big deal, but I don't want to be deafened by the phone either.

You wouldn't be deafened by the phone, but the other question is a good one. It would require a different technique since the microphones aren't typically placed directly over the spot where you'd normally put the phone to your ear, but I see no reason that one couldn't use a cell phone with some practice.

Quote:

3. What if there is other ambient noise occurring in your house? I'm sure that it would be amplified as well, and could interfere with your hearing.

They can't work magic. If you have ambient noises that mask sound, they will mask the sound even if you have electronic muffs on. The electronics will amplify both the ambient noise along with the noise you're trying to hear at the same levels so the net effect will be the same. In other words if the ambient noise masks the noise you're trying to hear without the muffs on then it will still mask the noise if you have the muffs on.

Quote:

4. I trust my hearing as is. I only trust technology to a certain degree. I'm not saying that I could never trust any form of electronic hearing protection, but I would have to do some experimenting of my own before I did trust them.

That's always a good approach. Electronics can fail and batteries can run down. If that happens you can rip the muffs off your head in much less than a second and discard them.

Double Naught Spy · November 24, 2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

4. I trust my hearing as is.

But after the first shot indoor close proximity shot, your hearing definitely won't be as trustworthy, as noted by JohnKSa's Fort Hood report above.

Stevie-Ray · November 24, 2009, 06:59 PM

I intend to double up as I do now, probably with the same plugs. Difference will be the amplification of the e-muffs will allow me to hear talking better, especially in indoor ranges. A higher attenuation rating on plugs will decrease the efficiency of the muffs, but understand I have NO amplification now.

November 20, 2009, 11:33 PM	#1
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Tactical hearing protection for home defense Ive heard of "tactical" hearing protection that blocks big noise (like gunshots) so you dont go deaf from firing indoors if you ever need too, but amplifiys small noise like footsteps to help you in hearing what you need too. Who amkes these, and do they live up to the hype? Anyone use them?

November 21, 2009, 06:48 PM	#11
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,947	I know a good hearing specialist that I have to see at least 2 times a year. (I am going deaf from hereditary hearing loss) He is also an avid collector of guns, and I see him at the range occasionaly. He says that firing off a couple of rounds indoors would not result in permant deafness. You cause more hearing damage running a lawnmower for 30 minutes without hearing protection, than you would firing a handgun a couple of rounds. In fact most vacume cleaners are at a high enough Db level to cause hearing damage. It is not just how loud it is to you, it is how long you are exposed to it. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

November 21, 2009, 11:15 PM	#13
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,568	A couple of interesting points. Some of Hasan's victims in the Ft. Hood shooting report being deafened by the shots. One victim went to cover but peeked up to see what was going on because he couldn't hear anything at all after the first burst of shots. He was shot when he looked up. Clearly his situational awareness was impaired by the deafening effect of the shots and his injury was likely a result of his not being able to tell what was going on without moving and giving away his position. Obviously there was no opportunity to use hearing protection in such a situation but it does point out that shots can deafen a person and that being deaf in a life or death situation can put you at a huge disadvantage. The second thing was a brief comment I read in a "Ranging Shots" column by Clint Smith in the Nov 2009 issue of Guns Magazine. He reports that "...I keep a pair in the bedroom if they might be needed at night because I think they could help in a personal defense mode." Thought it was interesting because that's the first time I've seen an "expert" recommend them for home defense although I've thought for some time that having good quality electronic hearing protection available might provide an advantage in a home defense scenario--as well as protecting one's hearing. Before anyone goes nuts about this, let me point out that I am NOT advocating that one should dive for the hearing protection in an emergency. But for investigating the typical "bump-in-the-night" scenario, a good set of electronic hearing protectors can really be a help--and if things go bad they can give the user an edge. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 23, 2009, 07:31 PM	#17
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I just today ordered the pair Wally spoke of. They may be inexpensive, but they're certainly rated rather well, on many sites. As he said, a pair of plugs underneath for the range, and keep them close to the bed in case there's a need and the time to don them. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

November 23, 2009, 08:16 PM	#19
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	nrr of 12 would not be good considering so many are 18, 20, and above. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

November 21, 2009, 12:24 AM	#2
Terry A Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Washington, Pa Posts: 764	http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/EAR111-1.html I don't use them. I have a friend who bought this and he likes it, that's how I knew about the link I posted.

November 21, 2009, 01:35 AM	#3
bbqbob51 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Posts: 775	You can get them cheaper than that at Cabelas as well as Sportsman's Guide. I think I paid $24.95 aand $19.95 respectively. Some of these units run into the hundreds of dollars, the ones I have work fine. They magnify low sounds and muffle loud ones.

November 21, 2009, 12:35 PM	#4
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	Bought a cheap pair on amazon (Caldwell E-Max Electronic Hearing Protection Standard Md: 497-700, $23.75). Mine has stereo mics. They are essentially regular hearing protection muffs with a mic and amplifier. Normal sounds transmit to your ear. The mic/amp will not transmit loud noise. If the sound system fails you have normal ear muffs. I use a set of 12db musician ear plugs inside mine because I find the 26db rating to be less than I would like for sound suppression. The muffs still provide enough amplification for me to hear normal conversation thru the inner plugs and are very quiet when shooting. The better ones provide better hearing protection and better sound amplifiers and features like auto off so you do not drain a set of batteries after you forget to shut of the headphones.

November 21, 2009, 04:25 PM	#5
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	I have electronic ears but they are for range use. I don't even bother to keep them next to my bed. In reality, if someone has broken into your home, I'd think you would not have time to put the ears on your head and turn them on, nor is that how you'd want to spend precious moments. I don't know from first hand experience, but have read that in an SD situation, you really don't hear the gun fire anyway. Adrenaline dump seems to shut the ears down. Regardless, if my life is in danger, potential hearing loss would be a tiny price to pay if I could stay safe.

November 21, 2009, 05:27 PM	#7
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	I use my electronic hearing protection for range use but I do keep them next to my night (day and evening gun for that matter). They would be third on the list of things to get if there is enough time. Get the gun, get the spare ammo, then if the threat is not imminent put on the ear muffs. If someone is breaking down the door, I would not wait on ear protection, but if I hear something strange and just need to check it out, then I would put them on.

November 21, 2009, 05:40 PM	#8
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	Vanya, I guess I relate it to my own experience too much. I am not assuming the leisure of hunkering down. I'd grab my gun, flashlight and if I can, phone. Anything else is way down the list, even if I'm just hearing a noise. I do have stun gun and pepper spray next to my bed but likely wouldn't grab that stuff either. I'm not pro hearing damage. Just pragmatically speaking, it wouldn't be at the top of my stack. Purportedly, there is a physical effect of the ear actually closing under many circumstances of adrenalin dump. I would not want to count on it, but it's more than not hearing it. It's a physiological thing in the ear. See Lt Grossman's book, "On Combat" for details.

November 21, 2009, 06:34 PM	#10
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	Vanya, yes, those are all things Grossman mentions. However, he claims that the physiological changes DO provide protection from hearing loss when they occur. IIRC, he claims that most LEO shootings do not result in hearing damage due to this mechanism, and in fact most LEO do not report ringing in the ears, etc, and that can't be due to auditory exclusion. You'd expect that ringing to last for hours. I claim no expertise. I read a book by a man (Grossman) who seems to be credible and am just passing on what I read. And with that, I will shut up now.

November 22, 2009, 12:18 AM	#14
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	I like the idea of amplifyin small noises, like bein able to pick up voices better so i can hear how many people may have broken in, etc.

November 23, 2009, 08:12 PM	#18
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	I will note the ear plugs I use are only 12db and made for passing clear sounds so they still allows the amplified noise to reach the ear clearly. If you are using the normal 26db ear plugs you may not get the advantage of the microphones much. The ear plugs were from http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx they are listed as 20db but have a 12db rating. Not sure what the difference arises from except for different standards used in measuring the sound reduction. Edit to add, I was using them today at the range shooting with my son. Pretty cool effect, the gun would go off and you get the normal muffled thump of a gun shot through ear muffs then I could hear the brass tinkling as it hit the concrete floor.

November 23, 2009, 09:35 PM	#20
(BH) Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 638	I currently don't own any of these at this time. I'm not opposed to them, nir are they on my must buy list. I do, however, have some concerns about using them. 1. How good is the surround sound on these? I mean, the amplification of quiet sounds is great, if you can tell where these quiet sounds are coming from. I'd rather risk hearing loss than risk not knowing where the BG is. I wouldn't want to trying to listen and think this guy was in my kitchen when he was actually in my kid's room. 2. Would they interfere with the use of a cell phone (ie calling the cops)? I doubt this would be a big deal, but I don't want to be deafened by the phone either. 3. What if there is other ambient noise occurring in your house? I'm sure that it would be amplified as well, and could interfere with your hearing. 4. I trust my hearing as is. I only trust technology to a certain degree. I'm not saying that I could never trust any form of electronic hearing protection, but I would have to do some experimenting of my own before I did trust them.

November 23, 2009, 10:24 PM	#21
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	I have lost hearing in one ear. I bought a Walker Game Ear and it works very well. It has the typical 'insert in the ear' adaptor that does not work as well to dampen the sound as the plug style adapter, but for a one time home defense, or out and about scenario I think it offers better protection than nothing. I wear it during the day and have it by my handgun at night. I find this not a problem to pick up and insert in my ear. It is already on when I'm in my car and, as folks have said, a gunshot in a car can be very damaging. I figure any protection is better than none. Out in the field, the sound amplification is a real plus. I imagine this would also work for monitoring the house in the event of a breakin. If you have time to put it in your ear, then it will benefit you. If you don't have the time, it won't matter anyway. http://www.walkersgameear.com/enhancement_hdSeries.html Last edited by Hook686; November 24, 2009 at 06:26 PM.

November 24, 2009, 06:59 PM	#25
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I intend to double up as I do now, probably with the same plugs. Difference will be the amplification of the e-muffs will allow me to hear talking better, especially in indoor ranges. A higher attenuation rating on plugs will decrease the efficiency of the muffs, but understand I have NO amplification now. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.