Using a Wilson Trimmer/cutter

Qtiphky · October 23, 2009, 09:45 PM

When using a Wilson trimmer/cutter for "fired" cases, not one for "new/resized" cases, do I not full length resize the cases before trimming? As obvious as that sounds, it doesn't make sense to me. If I cut before I size, won't the shells lengthen again after sizing them?

**Unclenick** · October 23, 2009, 10:23 PM

Those are for people who are neck-sizing only and who therefore don't size the case body. Only the neck, which they do size before trimming.

If a cartridge family has enough taper, the same shell holder works for both. But where taper is more gradual, you can't get a fired case into the standard holder deeply enough to trim it.

Qtiphky · October 24, 2009, 10:18 AM

I bought the case gage and cutter for the .204 ruger/20 tactical. I guess I still don't understand. Do I full length resize before trimming/cutting or not. The instructions that came with it don't really say anything about re-sizing.

Farmland · October 24, 2009, 11:06 AM

If you are going to resize you should trim after you resize.

cpermd · October 24, 2009, 07:07 PM

Resize, then trim.

CP

BigJakeJ1s · October 24, 2009, 11:14 PM

What UncleNick said...

Most rifle cartridges are able to use the "fired" case holder either before or after re-sizing.

Andy

dardascastbullets · October 25, 2009, 04:09 PM

Hi Qtiphky!

The 'fired' case holder is to be used for fired cases only. The internal diameter accomodates those cases that have been fired and not resized. The 'sized' case holder is to be used on cases that have been full length resized. Your cases will not lengthen after full length resizing.

I trust that this will answer your question.

BigJakeJ1s · October 25, 2009, 08:24 PM

For most cartridges, Wilson case holders only come in a "fired" configuration, and they will work just fine whether the case is fired or resized. Since the case holder only centers the case axially on the cutter, it does not matter whether the tapered bore of the holder catches the case further forward for a resized case, or further to the rear for a fired case.

They offer separate fired and resized holders for cartridges that have so little taper that the difference in diameter between fired and resized bodies causes too much change in the lengthwise position of the case in the holder (e.g. fired case necks don't stick out of resized holders far enough), or that have belts or rims that would interfere with a resized case fitting in far enough into a fired holder for the tapered bore to grip the case body securely.

Andy

Qtiphky · October 25, 2009, 08:39 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'll trim before sizing and see how that works. When I put the shell in the holder, should it go all the way in to rim or not?

**Unclenick** · October 25, 2009, 10:50 PM

Backwards. Trim after sizing only, whichever sizing method you use.

The reason is that sizing changes the shape of the case and usually adds to its length. The longer the case, the more danger you are in of the neck jamming into the throat and raising pressure dangerously. You wait to trim until after the case is the actual shape it is going to be when you chamber and fire it, because that's when the trim length matters. And that is after sizing, whichever sizing method you use.

The cases I have do not normally go all the way into the rim. If you are full-length resizing, then get the holder for full-length resized cases. The .204 doesn't have a lot of taper. Just over half a degree. So, it needs the holder you have for shooters who are using neck sizing dies, while the other holder is for shooters using full length sizing dies, as you seem to be doing.

Neck sizing dies, as the name implies, only size the neck, which leaves the rest of the case a wider, tighter fit in the chamber to better keep the bullet aligned with the center. It is good for accuracy, but the tighter case bodies often will not feed smoothly from a magazine, if at all. That makes them less desirable in many field situations, but no problem for target or varmint shooting from the bench, where a rapid follow-up shot is not normally useful. In that case having to load one at a time is no drawback.

BigJakeJ1s · October 26, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

When I put the shell in the holder, should it go all the way in to rim or not?

Mine does not, but that is with 8x57 & 270win, both with a fair amount of body taper.

Andy

October 23, 2009, 09:45 PM	#1
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	Using a Wilson Trimmer/cutter When using a Wilson trimmer/cutter for "fired" cases, not one for "new/resized" cases, do I not full length resize the cases before trimming? As obvious as that sounds, it doesn't make sense to me. If I cut before I size, won't the shells lengthen again after sizing them?

October 23, 2009, 10:23 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,742	Those are for people who are neck-sizing only and who therefore don't size the case body. Only the neck, which they do size before trimming. If a cartridge family has enough taper, the same shell holder works for both. But where taper is more gradual, you can't get a fired case into the standard holder deeply enough to trim it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 24, 2009, 10:18 AM	#3
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	Still don't get it I bought the case gage and cutter for the .204 ruger/20 tactical. I guess I still don't understand. Do I full length resize before trimming/cutting or not. The instructions that came with it don't really say anything about re-sizing.

October 25, 2009, 04:09 PM	#7
dardascastbullets Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Essexville, MI Posts: 164	Hi Qtiphky! The 'fired' case holder is to be used for fired cases only. The internal diameter accomodates those cases that have been fired and not resized. The 'sized' case holder is to be used on cases that have been full length resized. Your cases will not lengthen after full length resizing. I trust that this will answer your question. __________________ Matt Dardas

October 25, 2009, 08:39 PM	#9
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	Thanks Thanks for the replies. I'll trim before sizing and see how that works. When I put the shell in the holder, should it go all the way in to rim or not?

October 24, 2009, 11:06 AM	#4
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	If you are going to resize you should trim after you resize.

October 24, 2009, 07:07 PM	#5
cpermd Member Join Date: March 4, 2001 Posts: 36	Resize, then trim. CP

October 24, 2009, 11:14 PM	#6
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	What UncleNick said... Most rifle cartridges are able to use the "fired" case holder either before or after re-sizing. Andy

October 25, 2009, 08:24 PM	#8
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	For most cartridges, Wilson case holders only come in a "fired" configuration, and they will work just fine whether the case is fired or resized. Since the case holder only centers the case axially on the cutter, it does not matter whether the tapered bore of the holder catches the case further forward for a resized case, or further to the rear for a fired case. They offer separate fired and resized holders for cartridges that have so little taper that the difference in diameter between fired and resized bodies causes too much change in the lengthwise position of the case in the holder (e.g. fired case necks don't stick out of resized holders far enough), or that have belts or rims that would interfere with a resized case fitting in far enough into a fired holder for the tapered bore to grip the case body securely. Andy

October 25, 2009, 10:50 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,742	Backwards. Trim after sizing only, whichever sizing method you use. The reason is that sizing changes the shape of the case and usually adds to its length. The longer the case, the more danger you are in of the neck jamming into the throat and raising pressure dangerously. You wait to trim until after the case is the actual shape it is going to be when you chamber and fire it, because that's when the trim length matters. And that is after sizing, whichever sizing method you use. The cases I have do not normally go all the way into the rim. If you are full-length resizing, then get the holder for full-length resized cases. The .204 doesn't have a lot of taper. Just over half a degree. So, it needs the holder you have for shooters who are using neck sizing dies, while the other holder is for shooters using full length sizing dies, as you seem to be doing. Neck sizing dies, as the name implies, only size the neck, which leaves the rest of the case a wider, tighter fit in the chamber to better keep the bullet aligned with the center. It is good for accuracy, but the tighter case bodies often will not feed smoothly from a magazine, if at all. That makes them less desirable in many field situations, but no problem for target or varmint shooting from the bench, where a rapid follow-up shot is not normally useful. In that case having to load one at a time is no drawback. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; October 25, 2009 at 11:07 PM.