.22 vs. .38 wadcutter

[Ernest T Bass]

Which is better for home defense? .22 long rifle, .22 mag, or a .38 special 148 grain target wadcutter?

First of all, let me state that I own .38 special revolvers that are rated for +P ammo, and I actually shoot +P ammo out of them. So don’t waste your time posting things such as “there’s better ammo out there than a 148 grain wadcutter.” I know that already. Also, let me state that even though I own and enjoy several .22 caliber guns, I wouldn’t choose them for home defense. I’m not knocking anybody who chooses that caliber for home defense, it’s just not my personal choice.

So now let me explain why I’m asking this question. I absolutely LOVE the low flash, low recoil, and low noise of the 148 grain target wadcutter. I think “gee, wouldn’t it be great if I could have this level of controllability and light recoil in my home defense load.” Then I snap back to reality and remember that I’ve had it beaten into my head that if I use anything short of a 158 grain LSWCHP +P that I might as well wear a pink dress and carry a sharp stick to confront my attacker. BUT then I hear of people using .22 calibers for home defense, which in my mind is in complete contraction to the idea that a target wadcutter is worthless. I mean, a target wadcutter has to be a more potent home defense round than a .22 caliber, I would think.

So I guess my quandary can be distilled down to one simple question: If a .22 caliber can be used successfully by some for home defense, then why would it be so sacrilegious to use a .38 special 148 grain target wadcutter for the same purpose?

[Wishoot]

The wadcutter is going to make a much bigger hole and I would think have a more immediate impact assuming similar shot placement.

[Daryl]

There's one thing that I disagree with on your post.

You like the low flash, low noise, and low recoil you get at the range from the wadcutters. That's all good, and if that's what you can shoot and control comfortably, then use it.

But, a home and/or self-defense situation is not a target range. If there's an agressor that's determined to kill you or your family, it has to be your goal to stop them...and survive in the best condition you can manage. If 10 people use a .22 LR to defend their home, the odds are some of them will survive. The odds are, some of them won't, as well. Their success or failure may or may not be completely attributed to their weapon of choice, but it's ability to stop the agressor is definitely a contributing factor in many situations.

A .22 CAN be used for such a situation, and used successfully. Even so, the "odds" are better for you with something that hits harder.

It has NOTHING to do with what other's think, or even what they say. They won't be there to help you when the chips are down. It's up to YOU, and what YOU can do with your weapon of choice (or lack thereof).

It's also not as much a matter of "comfort" when shooting. As long as you can shoot the more potent round as well, you're likely "better off" with the more potent cartridge. If you can't, then use what you can shoot well.

Personally, I practice mostly with wadcutters, and use hollow points for defensive purposes. Not that I think wadcutters are worthless for self defense, but because I want to use something more potent, and that will minimize over-penetration in my home.

Daryl

[Scorch]

You can use anything you want for home defense. Really. You can tell everyone you have my permission. As to suitability of the ammo choice, you will get very little penetration with a 148 gr wadcutter, and a little bit more penetration with a 22LR.

Long story short, neither will deliver a lot of shock, but either one will probably stop a home invasion unless you are confronted by a drug-crazed axe murderer. If you want to stop it right now, use something with a little more power.

[drrpg01]

The likelihood of putting a 22 bullet exactly where it needs to be to cause an end to a home defense confrontation considering the size of the bullet is slim. Not impossible, but much harder to do than with a larger bullet. Larger bullet damages more stuff on the way through. Simple as that. Larger and faster bullet is even better because of the sheer violence of its interaction with the body tissues and its increased penetration. With all the worries about 38 effectiveness (too slow on muzzle velocity, etc), it was used for decades by law enforcement, and out of a decent barrel length at point blank shouldn't be a prob under most conditions.

[Daryl]

you will get very little penetration with a 148 gr wadcutter, and a little bit more penetration with a 22LR.

In my experience HB wadcutters actually penetrate pretty well. Better than .22 ammo from a handgun, generally, and more than the HP's I shoot from my .38 special.

Daryl

[Stumper]

A great many people have used .38 wadcutters for self defense with good results. Likewise the .22LR and .22 WMR. We bloviate about stopping power and shock etc but most self defense scenarios have no shots fired. When shots are fired, placement and penetration matter most. If it comes down to it most of us will be wishing for more gun no matter what we have..........and most of us will be glad to have something, anything in hand.

[seeker_two]

The big determinator for penetration is bullet weight and shape....and the .38SPL wadcutter is the best among your choices....

Why can't you use non-+P 158gr. lead hollowpoints? They're often as gentle as the SWC's....and give you more bullet weight and some expansion...

[Old Grump]

Neither are a good choice but on a 2 legged critter not encased in a heavy wool coat a 148 gr wadcutter is going to get his attention faster than a 22 unless your first shot is in that little area just above and between his eyes or his kneecap.

[ronto]

Given your choices, the 38. I would go with 158gr. LSWCHP...and +P if your weapon can safely handle it.

[Skans]

Why did you add ".45" at the end? It defeated the purpose of your poll. I would have voted .38, had you not also added .45 at the end.

[Kreyzhorse]

A baseball bat has been used as a successful HD weapon but that doesn't mean it is your best choice for home defense.

In my mind, there is no doubt that a .38 is a much better weapon than a .22lr. As mentioned, a .38 gives you more of a room for error than a .22lr does by creating a larger wound with more penetration. That should equal more shock, more blood and hopefully the person down quicker.

[Ernest T Bass]

Why did you add ".45" at the end?

Just to be funny. Also, because I fully expected some people to ignore the fact that I posted only three choices, and try to tell me that anything short of .45 ACP is worthless. The "buy a .45 ACP, you sissy" option is for people who can't live with themselves if they suggest using anything less. If you reasonably believe that of the three, that the .38 special is the best choice, then vote for .38 special. Only vote for .45 ACP if you can't sleep at night if you were to suggest anything less. It really was just an attempt to be funny.

[rodwhaincamo]

I would opt for the 45 over the 38 and 38 over the 22. I continually hear how the 38 was used for years with success. But didn't our military find it sub par in the late 1800's early 1900's in the Philippines? They weren't on drugs as far as I know. Nor are Philippinos big people. Seems the reason the 9mm is successful is due to high velocity which is lacking even in the 38 +P. Not knocking it and don't claim to know the answer here.

[woad_yurt]

I load 4 gr of W231 with 148 gr HBWCs. It's a very easy shooting but fairly stiff load. Makes full sized holes in wood, paper, etc. Penetrates well, too.

In the Philippines, that was the .38 Long Colt, I think. Only 650-700 FPS if I remember correctly.

[scorpion_tyr]

.45 ACP with high quality JHP's.

[Casimer]

A similar topic has been making the rounds on the snubby yahoo group mailing list, in reference to this article - http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunitio...901/index.html

Basically the author argues that for lower velocities, with the expansion characteristics these entail, the shoulder of a wadcutter creates a more significant wound channel than many alternative HPs. Also the penetration is better than you'd expect, especially with a hard cast bullet.

[xdtactical]

Cooome onnn!!! :d

[ang4me]

And I certainly believe that a larger caliber will do the job more thoroughly, but....

I'm an avid reader of the news, every morning for as long as I can remember. They pick up on anything that is scary, gory, or generally makes old ladies and paranoid people shiver.

And I have never once read about someone shooting (Especially shooting repeatedly) an intruder or whatever with a small-caliber gun and then the intruder overcoming the homeowner and stabbing them or killing them in a hail of gunfire despite numerous .22 holes in the torso and/or head.

At most I've heard of perps getting "winged" and escaping, which is pretty much fine by me because inevitably they go to the hospital and get arrested anyway, and I'm in no hurry to kill people.

[dondavis3]

Your question was ".22 vs. .38 wadcutter " why have other choices on the survey? I would have voted .38.

I believe that .38 wad cutters makes a pretty large hole in a intruder where the .22 would make a smaller hole - I wouldn't want to be shot by either one

I voted .45 for the same reason - larger hole in the perp -

But .22's - .32's - .380's - 9mm etc. etc. they can all do the job if you know how to shoot them.

[Bill DeShivs]

The US was not using .38 Special during the Phillipine Insurrection. They were using .38 Colt-a much weaker round.
The Filipino "juramentados" were taking drugs, wrapping themselves in layers of heavy leather, and tightly binding their testicles to create an "alternate pain."
The .38 Spl. wadcutter is actually a quite good defensive round. It cuts a nice, clean hole.

[sakeneko]

My actual choice is a .357 Magnum pistol, but usually loaded with 38 +P JHP -- Speer Gold Dot 135 G "Short Barrel", by choice. Wadcutters are for target shooting, or so I was taught. :-)

[[email protected]]

38 wadcutters have big meplats. Who doesn't like big meplats?

[Skans]

Just to be funny. Also, because I fully expected some people to ignore the fact that I posted only three choices, and try to tell me that anything short of .45 ACP is worthless.

Well..........yeah, you're probably right about that - why not account for it since some people will throw that in there anyway - makes sense.

[Dwight55]

Obviously, . . . my first choice is the 1911, . . . 9 rounds are bg bound in something like 2.5 seconds, . . . which is only possible by the super pros who use a revolver. Lots of firepower out bound in a short time, . . . confuses and cripples quickly, . . . even if it is not lethal.

Second choice is the .38 with the wadcutters, . . . as .22LR is totally notorious for misfires, . . . which will ruin your whole day if HD is the order of that day. And if I may interpolate, . . . if you are using wadcutters, . . . are you a reloader? As such, . . . you have a better handle on the quality of your ammo than buying over the counter .22s.

Third choice would be a Browning Buckmark .22LR, 4 inch barrel, . . . and spend a lot of time learning to shoot large oranges or small grapefruits. This simulates the area of the head you need to hit, . . . shooting for the center of the shape of the head, . . . and shooting until you see a serious change in the demeanor of the bg, . . . also practice quick re-loads just in case you get to slide lock.

May God bless,
Dwight