Fustrated

kapfel · July 16, 2009, 10:55 PM

Let me start by saying I'm under 500 rounds reloaded so newbie alert. I've been reloading 40s&w on a Hornady LNL progressive using 800x powder. Well I had in 100 rounds a few low pressure and one so under pressured the bullet didnt even make it half way down the barrel. Well after a few posts back and forth I found I used the wrong cleaner on the powder drop and after running to my local autozone I'm now getting very constant drops. So i run out of 40s&w bullets and waiting for my 1k free from Hornady so I decide to setup everything for 9mm. Here is where the fustration begins.

I go through each station and set the to the proper depth and lock the rings. first issue im now running across is the timing on the shell plate seems off and I'm crushing cartridges and miss sitting primers. Every few pulls of the lever i need to manually adjust the shell plate by hand about a 1/4 inch. My second issue is it seems that any type of bell from the PTX and my bullet falls into the cartridge when it goes to the seater. any way to avoid this is by moving the powder drop so high it doesnt expand the mouth. (125g LRN)

I'm wondering if maybe i should have gone with jacketed to avoid the second issue. the first issue I'm just clueless. by the way the powder drop is still 100% on the money =)

Dannyl · July 17, 2009, 02:51 AM

Hi,
You did not specify what press you are using, but it sounds like the Lee 1000.
Here are somethings you need to check.

1. indexing problems, make sure that each time you move the lever ( up or down) until it can go no further.
1B. take the instructions ( or get the short video from their website) and set the indexing before starting to load.

2. Belling.
A. Take a fired case, and run it through the re-sizing die only, make sure that all the case goes through the die.now see if the bullets you are trying to load goes in easy. if this is the case, it is likely that the bullets are undersize.

B. Assuming that the result of the first check is that the bullet does not go ito the case, back of the belling die,( keep the powder measure screwed all the way in) start with backing it 1/2 a turn and try again, with patience you will find the spot where you get the right amount of belling .

Don't hesitate to yell if this is still not working, and ask as many questions as you need. We all benefit from this forum.

Cheers,
Danny

RNG · July 17, 2009, 04:26 AM

Check the following link.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=356132

I found it to be very helpful in adjusting the LNL. Thanks Bobotech.

Cheers,
Richard

**Unclenick** · July 17, 2009, 08:41 AM

Kapfel,

A couple of additional possibilities: Is your 9mm brass R-P (Remington-Peters) headstamp by any chance? I don't run 9mm, but in .45 ACP in the past I've had the problem that R-P cases have thinner case walls at the mouth than other brands. As a result, the thin mouth sized down to a larger ID than other brands, and they work hardened quickly so the amount of spring back coming out of the sizing die got larger than with others. After a reload or two, they would be coming out of the sizer wide enough that bullets could fall. I quit using them for that reason. In any event, try looking at wall thickness with different brands and see if your dies are OK with cases that have thcker walls?

Make sure your expander is 9mm and not a .38 that got in there by mistake? There is just two thousandths difference between the bullets for the two rounds, but that is enough for the straight section of the expander to possibly undo the sizing? You'd have to measure it with a micrometer and be sure it was under the size of the bullet by at least a thousandth.

kapfel · July 17, 2009, 09:06 AM

Dannyl,

It's a Hornady LNL Progressive. The timeing was fine for my 40s&w so I'm not sure if I'm suppose to adjust for each caliber. As for the belling I thought it may be a bullet issue and tried seating it without belling. The bullet just sits on top not in it and normally pops off the cartridge as the press's action jerks the shellplate. Maybe I wasn't patient enough I cant even begin to tell you how many times I tried to adjust the height of the PTX.

RNG,

I was reading the post you link and was looking at the press this morning. I didn't want to make any adjustments without call hornady but I did not a few things as I watched the action. First thing i did was work the handle and watched yet again the timing become off after two or three pulls. I then removed the eject wire and center hex screw. I followed up with about 50 pulls of the lever and interestingly enough no timing issue. I introduced the hex bolt into the mix just screwing it down till it stopped with no pressure. after about the second or third lever pull the shell plate became off time BUT within a fraction of second of it reaching the base it would finish the motion, kinda like the little ball bearings would get hung up and hesitate alittle before falling into place. well the ejection wire just makes things even worse.

Unclenick,

I used a mix of R-P, WIN, and PMC. My expander is not from Hornady its a Powerfunnels LNLPTX. As i said earlier I may be adjusting it to much. this will just take more tim to find the correct height, the timing issue is my real issue.

**Unclenick** · July 17, 2009, 09:32 AM

I assume you did a thorough cleaning of the shell plate and detent ball and followed any lubrication recommendations in the instructions? Little bits of powder and primer residue can build up and drag on these parts. When you switch to a lighter weight cartridge you loose rotational inertia you had with the heavier ones that helped finish rotating the plate.

I assume from your statement about the brass brand mix, that your result was the same for all of them?

I have no experience with your Powder Funnels tool. The taper appears gradual enough that you possibly could drive it in too deep? Still, I would be checking my case OD after sizing and see if there is much left to expand? An oversize carbide sizing ring could cause the same problem I described from a wrong-size conventional expander.

kapfel · July 17, 2009, 11:37 AM

Unclenick,

I cleaned the shell plate and press extremely well after my last cleaning mistake. I called Hornady while I had a few moments this morning and they walked me through making adjustments to the Pawls. That fixed the timing issue. As for the belling I'm going to work extremely slow making very slight adjustments till I get it right. I'll also try to avoid the Remington brass for now.

RNG,

you were dead on.

Everyone thank you for your help thus far.

RNG · July 17, 2009, 02:33 PM

I'm glad it worked out for you. I had the same problem after my first 300 rounds. Like you, I called Hornady and it took about 30 seconds for them to talk me through the adjustment. I now use the document that I linked to in a previous message to help me with periodic adjustments.

Cheers,
Richard

FlyFish · July 17, 2009, 02:54 PM

kapfel - From an earlier post where you mentioned the ejector wire, it appears that you're running the older version of the LnL. I have one of those as well and, like most others, was never able to get the ejector wire to work to my satisfaction. And even if you can get the wire to work (so I'm told) by careful adjustment and polishing, you still have the problem of not being able to use non-Hornady crimp dies in the last station.

To correct both issues, Hornady has recently come out with a kit to convert the older presses to the new EZject system, which is standard on the newer LnLs. EZject does away with the wire, and it's well worth the additional cost. If you have older shellplates you'll also need to have those modified. I converted mine a couple of months ago and it was one of the smarter things I've done recently. You can get the details on Hornady's web site.

July 16, 2009, 10:55 PM	#1
kapfel Junior Member Join Date: July 9, 2009 Posts: 8	Fustrated Let me start by saying I'm under 500 rounds reloaded so newbie alert. I've been reloading 40s&w on a Hornady LNL progressive using 800x powder. Well I had in 100 rounds a few low pressure and one so under pressured the bullet didnt even make it half way down the barrel. Well after a few posts back and forth I found I used the wrong cleaner on the powder drop and after running to my local autozone I'm now getting very constant drops. So i run out of 40s&w bullets and waiting for my 1k free from Hornady so I decide to setup everything for 9mm. Here is where the fustration begins. I go through each station and set the to the proper depth and lock the rings. first issue im now running across is the timing on the shell plate seems off and I'm crushing cartridges and miss sitting primers. Every few pulls of the lever i need to manually adjust the shell plate by hand about a 1/4 inch. My second issue is it seems that any type of bell from the PTX and my bullet falls into the cartridge when it goes to the seater. any way to avoid this is by moving the powder drop so high it doesnt expand the mouth. (125g LRN) I'm wondering if maybe i should have gone with jacketed to avoid the second issue. the first issue I'm just clueless. by the way the powder drop is still 100% on the money =)

July 17, 2009, 02:51 AM	#2
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	a few things to check Hi, You did not specify what press you are using, but it sounds like the Lee 1000. Here are somethings you need to check. 1. indexing problems, make sure that each time you move the lever ( up or down) until it can go no further. 1B. take the instructions ( or get the short video from their website) and set the indexing before starting to load. 2. Belling. A. Take a fired case, and run it through the re-sizing die only, make sure that all the case goes through the die.now see if the bullets you are trying to load goes in easy. if this is the case, it is likely that the bullets are undersize. B. Assuming that the result of the first check is that the bullet does not go ito the case, back of the belling die,( keep the powder measure screwed all the way in) start with backing it 1/2 a turn and try again, with patience you will find the spot where you get the right amount of belling . Don't hesitate to yell if this is still not working, and ask as many questions as you need. We all benefit from this forum. Cheers, Danny

July 17, 2009, 08:41 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	Kapfel, A couple of additional possibilities: Is your 9mm brass R-P (Remington-Peters) headstamp by any chance? I don't run 9mm, but in .45 ACP in the past I've had the problem that R-P cases have thinner case walls at the mouth than other brands. As a result, the thin mouth sized down to a larger ID than other brands, and they work hardened quickly so the amount of spring back coming out of the sizing die got larger than with others. After a reload or two, they would be coming out of the sizer wide enough that bullets could fall. I quit using them for that reason. In any event, try looking at wall thickness with different brands and see if your dies are OK with cases that have thcker walls? Make sure your expander is 9mm and not a .38 that got in there by mistake? There is just two thousandths difference between the bullets for the two rounds, but that is enough for the straight section of the expander to possibly undo the sizing? You'd have to measure it with a micrometer and be sure it was under the size of the bullet by at least a thousandth. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 17, 2009, 09:32 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	I assume you did a thorough cleaning of the shell plate and detent ball and followed any lubrication recommendations in the instructions? Little bits of powder and primer residue can build up and drag on these parts. When you switch to a lighter weight cartridge you loose rotational inertia you had with the heavier ones that helped finish rotating the plate. I assume from your statement about the brass brand mix, that your result was the same for all of them? I have no experience with your Powder Funnels tool. The taper appears gradual enough that you possibly could drive it in too deep? Still, I would be checking my case OD after sizing and see if there is much left to expand? An oversize carbide sizing ring could cause the same problem I described from a wrong-size conventional expander. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 17, 2009, 04:26 AM	#3
RNG Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 120	Check the following link. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=356132 I found it to be very helpful in adjusting the LNL. Thanks Bobotech. Cheers, Richard

July 17, 2009, 09:06 AM	#5
kapfel Junior Member Join Date: July 9, 2009 Posts: 8	Dannyl, It's a Hornady LNL Progressive. The timeing was fine for my 40s&w so I'm not sure if I'm suppose to adjust for each caliber. As for the belling I thought it may be a bullet issue and tried seating it without belling. The bullet just sits on top not in it and normally pops off the cartridge as the press's action jerks the shellplate. Maybe I wasn't patient enough I cant even begin to tell you how many times I tried to adjust the height of the PTX. RNG, I was reading the post you link and was looking at the press this morning. I didn't want to make any adjustments without call hornady but I did not a few things as I watched the action. First thing i did was work the handle and watched yet again the timing become off after two or three pulls. I then removed the eject wire and center hex screw. I followed up with about 50 pulls of the lever and interestingly enough no timing issue. I introduced the hex bolt into the mix just screwing it down till it stopped with no pressure. after about the second or third lever pull the shell plate became off time BUT within a fraction of second of it reaching the base it would finish the motion, kinda like the little ball bearings would get hung up and hesitate alittle before falling into place. well the ejection wire just makes things even worse. Unclenick, I used a mix of R-P, WIN, and PMC. My expander is not from Hornady its a Powerfunnels LNLPTX. As i said earlier I may be adjusting it to much. this will just take more tim to find the correct height, the timing issue is my real issue.

July 17, 2009, 11:37 AM	#7
kapfel Junior Member Join Date: July 9, 2009 Posts: 8	Unclenick, I cleaned the shell plate and press extremely well after my last cleaning mistake. I called Hornady while I had a few moments this morning and they walked me through making adjustments to the Pawls. That fixed the timing issue. As for the belling I'm going to work extremely slow making very slight adjustments till I get it right. I'll also try to avoid the Remington brass for now. RNG, you were dead on. Everyone thank you for your help thus far.

July 17, 2009, 02:33 PM	#8
RNG Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 120	I'm glad it worked out for you. I had the same problem after my first 300 rounds. Like you, I called Hornady and it took about 30 seconds for them to talk me through the adjustment. I now use the document that I linked to in a previous message to help me with periodic adjustments. Cheers, Richard

July 17, 2009, 02:54 PM	#9
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,731	kapfel - From an earlier post where you mentioned the ejector wire, it appears that you're running the older version of the LnL. I have one of those as well and, like most others, was never able to get the ejector wire to work to my satisfaction. And even if you can get the wire to work (so I'm told) by careful adjustment and polishing, you still have the problem of not being able to use non-Hornady crimp dies in the last station. To correct both issues, Hornady has recently come out with a kit to convert the older presses to the new EZject system, which is standard on the newer LnLs. EZject does away with the wire, and it's well worth the additional cost. If you have older shellplates you'll also need to have those modified. I converted mine a couple of months ago and it was one of the smarter things I've done recently. You can get the details on Hornady's web site.