7,62X51 nato ball cartridges from different countries

1.LT · October 7, 2010, 04:06 AM

Many countries produce military 7,62X51 ball cartridges.
In Norway (where i come from) we have used a Ball cartridge named NM60 that is produced at Raufoss ammunitions factory.
It has a 146 grs FMJBT bullet with non magnetic jacket and lead core, with a muzzle velocity of approximately 2850-2880 f/sec from a 26" barrel.
It is probably the same as the german DM41.

In the same barrel i tested south african R1M1 ammunition, it had a 146 grs FMJBT bullet with non magnetic jacket and lead core, with a muzzle velocity of approximately 2700 f/sec
British L2A2 prodused at RG, it had a 144 grs non magnetic lead core bullet, muzzle velocity of 2760 f/sec.
Portugese surplus ball(headstamp BF or FNM i never saw the package), it had a 147grs bullet, this ammo had a steel jacket that was "coppered", i didnt test velocity
Today, we in Norwegian armed forces use a Ball cartridge named NM231 (leadless), it has a 139 grs FMJBT with a steel core that is made from 2 parts. It has a muzzle velocity from a 26" barrel of approximately 2850-2880 f/sec. The cartridge is produced by NAMMO, and is named BNT9 (Ball Non Toxic)

I know that older swedish 7,62 Ball is a steel jacked lead core 147 grs FMJBT, velocity was 2760 f/sec, but i dont remember the name of the cartridge.

How is ammunition from other countries?
And what are they named?

HiBC · October 7, 2010, 04:18 AM

Here in USA,we sometimes have some military ammo from other countries.I have been cautioned that occasionally,the reason it is on the market is NATO rejected it.
I recall some Portugese,I believe it was 147 gr,made 2900 through my chronograph .I do not recall if it was the AR-10 or my STG=58 we chronographed.My STG58 shot it fine.It would pull the extractor over/through the rim on the AR10 T,leaving the brass in the chamber.Each gas system has its pressure curve requirements,
Sounds like you have a better selection of quality military ammo than we do.

1.LT · October 7, 2010, 04:27 AM

By the way, the Swedish cartridge is named "sk ptr 10 prj".

BlueTrain · October 7, 2010, 08:21 AM

Ammunition is standardized among countries for a very good reason: so it can be issued to other armies. There are differences, though, particularly in the way they're marked, which also changes over time, but to the end user, they all work and they don't get chronographed. My son served in Iraq in a tank unit (and you know to a tanker, a burst is 50 rounds), and informed me they came into posession of some British 7.62 ammunition, how I don't know, and said British 7.62 ammunition had a higher proportion of tracer rounds, this all being in linked ammo.

In the army they pretty much take whatever they're given.

1.LT · October 7, 2010, 02:41 PM

There are differences, some are berdan primed, some are boxer primed, some has lead core, some has steel core, some has magnetic jackets, some has not. How much the bullet weights is also interessting. And how the accuracy and velocity is.
Thats some of the differences i want to know of.

All the cartridges that has the nato sircle and cross are to nato specs, but there can still be those differences.

Old Grump · October 7, 2010, 02:45 PM

All I know is I have had good luck with Greek Turk and South African Ammo and mostly grief with Korean ammo. Seems like they made some good and some bad and I bought the bad. All 147 gr and all of it shot pretty much to point of aim but.................Well I do try to avoid anything made in Korea now.

chuckles · October 7, 2010, 05:57 PM

The best I've found was the Australian that was on the market about 5 years ago. In 2004, I bought a whole pallet, (40 cases, 32000 rds) at a local gunshow for .07 per round. I still have a bunch even after selling a good bit at .38 per round. Copper jacket, lead core 147gr. Best i found in military surplus 7.62x51. Remember the basic ammo rule; don't shoot ammo from any country where you wouldn't drink the tap water.

THORN74 · October 7, 2010, 06:46 PM

so far my M1A has had a diet consisting of:

500 rds wolf steel case (no major issues but probably wont use it again)
500rds DAG surplus great stuff!!
500 rds Sieler&beloit good stuff also!!
200 rds HP surplus (came linked, had to de-link my self) good so far, though i have 800 more in cans waiting to be de-linked

the DAG and S&B are good if ur not into reloading with the berdan primers and all ... usually south of $0.50 a round (i aim for $0.30-0.40/rnd)

chuckels

Quote:

Remember the basic ammo rule; don't shoot ammo from any country where you wouldn't drink the tap water.

them are words to live by my friend!!

Kreyzhorse · October 7, 2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

How is ammunition from other countries?

In the US, the sister round of the NATO 7.62x51mm is the .308 Winchester. It's a very popular hunting round.

1.LT · October 8, 2010, 02:43 AM

Thank you guys, i have some questions:

=>HiBC: The portugese you have used, what is the labeling on the package?
And was it BF or FNM ammunition?

=> Old Grump: The ammunition you have used, what is the labeling on the package?
And what is the headstamps, and are they steel or copper (non magnetic) jackets? Are they boxer or berdan primed?

=>chuckles:The aussie you have used, what is the labeling on the package?
And what is the headstamps? Are they boxer or berdan primed?

=>THORN74: The ammunition you have used, what is the labeling on the package?
And what is the headstamps, and are they steel or copper (non magnetic) jackets? Are they boxer or berdan primed?

Old Grump · October 8, 2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

=> Old Grump: The ammunition you have used, what is the labeling on the package?
And what is the headstamps, and are they steel or copper (non magnetic) jackets? Are they boxer or berdan primed?

Long gone shot up and disposed of. The lot number is long forgotten but if I can find my old posts asking if anybody else had problems with it I'll post it. I found a site and they had a long list of batch numbers that were bad, apparently mine was one of the early bad batches and since then they have cleaned up their act, or so it was said. Real brass but Berdan primed I believe, could be wrong on the primer.

THORN74 · October 8, 2010, 06:51 PM

1.LT....

here is the DAG stuff $80 us for 200 rds... thats a pretty good price in my book .... its brass case, but bredan primer

wolf is steel case crap u can get anywhere

HP is the head stamp on the stuff i am currently using ... its brass cased, mixed primers, and linked...so i have to put in some work to de-link them. it came in .50cal ammo cans

the sieler & Beloit was brass case, berdan prime. shot nice ...dont remember where i got it CTD or sportsmans guide i think. if i remember correctly it came in .50cal cans too

lt dan · October 9, 2010, 02:12 PM

Old Grump, maybe i can help out on the specs you lost on the SA ammo.

1LT, i have a 308win and i regularly use S-African mil surplus in my 308.i also had extensive exposure to this ammo when i was a tanker in the SA Army. it is the R1M1 head stamp type. there are also a common variant with a head stamp that simply gives two numbers. for example a 12 at the top and a 82 at the bottom. the bottom being the year of manufacture. all of the local (S-Africa) manufactured 7,62 rounds are done by a company by the name of PMP. all burden primers.

PMP has several international contracts of which NATO and Britain are two off.
if you can get your hands on SA ammo with a green ink on the primer, you are in for a treat. these 7,62 ammo are(were?) made to higher standards than run of the mill military specs. they were used for government endorsed range shooting, and are known for their excellent consistency.

the typical packaging would be a brown plastic bag with a darker brown sticker on the side with yellow print: 200ammo. the bag opens by peeling a ready to peel strip away. inside, you get light brown paper boxes with 20 rounds each.

if you don't have a 308 with k98 action think twice before using mil ammo in your hunting rifle.

HiBC · October 10, 2010, 04:33 AM

On the Portugese ammo,it is long gone.I can tell you it was brass cased,copper jacket.It came in a green 200rd battle pack.Pasteboard 20 rd boxes,no strippers.As I do not have a brass lot from this ammo,I will assume it was berdan primed.
Looking around,I did find one empty pasteboard box.It is marked BF80-27 and has a circle with a cross in it.
I suspect this box is from a 1000 lot I bought that was sold as Israelli Military Industries.I did not own a chronograph then,but it was brass,boxer primed,and it shot very well in my STG.It is headstamped TZ80
Sorry I cannot tell you more.
Surplus ammo has become expensive enough I buy new Winchester brass and load it.

October 7, 2010, 04:06 AM	#1
1.LT Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2010 Posts: 11	7,62X51 nato ball cartridges from different countries Many countries produce military 7,62X51 ball cartridges. In Norway (where i come from) we have used a Ball cartridge named NM60 that is produced at Raufoss ammunitions factory. It has a 146 grs FMJBT bullet with non magnetic jacket and lead core, with a muzzle velocity of approximately 2850-2880 f/sec from a 26" barrel. It is probably the same as the german DM41. In the same barrel i tested south african R1M1 ammunition, it had a 146 grs FMJBT bullet with non magnetic jacket and lead core, with a muzzle velocity of approximately 2700 f/sec British L2A2 prodused at RG, it had a 144 grs non magnetic lead core bullet, muzzle velocity of 2760 f/sec. Portugese surplus ball(headstamp BF or FNM i never saw the package), it had a 147grs bullet, this ammo had a steel jacket that was "coppered", i didnt test velocity Today, we in Norwegian armed forces use a Ball cartridge named NM231 (leadless), it has a 139 grs FMJBT with a steel core that is made from 2 parts. It has a muzzle velocity from a 26" barrel of approximately 2850-2880 f/sec. The cartridge is produced by NAMMO, and is named BNT9 (Ball Non Toxic) I know that older swedish 7,62 Ball is a steel jacked lead core 147 grs FMJBT, velocity was 2760 f/sec, but i dont remember the name of the cartridge. How is ammunition from other countries? And what are they named?

October 7, 2010, 02:45 PM	#6
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	All I know is I have had good luck with Greek Turk and South African Ammo and mostly grief with Korean ammo. Seems like they made some good and some bad and I bought the bad. All 147 gr and all of it shot pretty much to point of aim but.................Well I do try to avoid anything made in Korea now. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

October 9, 2010, 02:12 PM	#13
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	Old Grump, maybe i can help out on the specs you lost on the SA ammo. 1LT, i have a 308win and i regularly use S-African mil surplus in my 308.i also had extensive exposure to this ammo when i was a tanker in the SA Army. it is the R1M1 head stamp type. there are also a common variant with a head stamp that simply gives two numbers. for example a 12 at the top and a 82 at the bottom. the bottom being the year of manufacture. all of the local (S-Africa) manufactured 7,62 rounds are done by a company by the name of PMP. all burden primers. PMP has several international contracts of which NATO and Britain are two off. if you can get your hands on SA ammo with a green ink on the primer, you are in for a treat. these 7,62 ammo are(were?) made to higher standards than run of the mill military specs. they were used for government endorsed range shooting, and are known for their excellent consistency. the typical packaging would be a brown plastic bag with a darker brown sticker on the side with yellow print: 200ammo. the bag opens by peeling a ready to peel strip away. inside, you get light brown paper boxes with 20 rounds each. if you don't have a 308 with k98 action think twice before using mil ammo in your hunting rifle. __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans

October 7, 2010, 04:18 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	Here in USA,we sometimes have some military ammo from other countries.I have been cautioned that occasionally,the reason it is on the market is NATO rejected it. I recall some Portugese,I believe it was 147 gr,made 2900 through my chronograph .I do not recall if it was the AR-10 or my STG=58 we chronographed.My STG58 shot it fine.It would pull the extractor over/through the rim on the AR10 T,leaving the brass in the chamber.Each gas system has its pressure curve requirements, Sounds like you have a better selection of quality military ammo than we do.

October 7, 2010, 04:27 AM	#3
1.LT Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2010 Posts: 11	By the way, the Swedish cartridge is named "sk ptr 10 prj".

October 7, 2010, 08:21 AM	#4
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Ammunition is standardized among countries for a very good reason: so it can be issued to other armies. There are differences, though, particularly in the way they're marked, which also changes over time, but to the end user, they all work and they don't get chronographed. My son served in Iraq in a tank unit (and you know to a tanker, a burst is 50 rounds), and informed me they came into posession of some British 7.62 ammunition, how I don't know, and said British 7.62 ammunition had a higher proportion of tracer rounds, this all being in linked ammo. In the army they pretty much take whatever they're given.

October 7, 2010, 02:41 PM	#5
1.LT Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2010 Posts: 11	There are differences, some are berdan primed, some are boxer primed, some has lead core, some has steel core, some has magnetic jackets, some has not. How much the bullet weights is also interessting. And how the accuracy and velocity is. Thats some of the differences i want to know of. All the cartridges that has the nato sircle and cross are to nato specs, but there can still be those differences.

October 7, 2010, 05:57 PM	#7
chuckles Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Great American Western Desert Posts: 228	The best I've found was the Australian that was on the market about 5 years ago. In 2004, I bought a whole pallet, (40 cases, 32000 rds) at a local gunshow for .07 per round. I still have a bunch even after selling a good bit at .38 per round. Copper jacket, lead core 147gr. Best i found in military surplus 7.62x51. Remember the basic ammo rule; don't shoot ammo from any country where you wouldn't drink the tap water.

October 8, 2010, 02:43 AM	#10
1.LT Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2010 Posts: 11	Thank you guys, i have some questions: =>HiBC: The portugese you have used, what is the labeling on the package? And was it BF or FNM ammunition? => Old Grump: The ammunition you have used, what is the labeling on the package? And what is the headstamps, and are they steel or copper (non magnetic) jackets? Are they boxer or berdan primed? =>chuckles:The aussie you have used, what is the labeling on the package? And what is the headstamps? Are they boxer or berdan primed? =>THORN74: The ammunition you have used, what is the labeling on the package? And what is the headstamps, and are they steel or copper (non magnetic) jackets? Are they boxer or berdan primed?

October 8, 2010, 06:51 PM	#12
THORN74 Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Location: Chicago 'Burbs Posts: 543	1.LT.... here is the DAG stuff $80 us for 200 rds... thats a pretty good price in my book .... its brass case, but bredan primer wolf is steel case crap u can get anywhere HP is the head stamp on the stuff i am currently using ... its brass cased, mixed primers, and linked...so i have to put in some work to de-link them. it came in .50cal ammo cans the sieler & Beloit was brass case, berdan prime. shot nice ...dont remember where i got it CTD or sportsmans guide i think. if i remember correctly it came in .50cal cans too

October 10, 2010, 04:33 AM	#14
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	On the Portugese ammo,it is long gone.I can tell you it was brass cased,copper jacket.It came in a green 200rd battle pack.Pasteboard 20 rd boxes,no strippers.As I do not have a brass lot from this ammo,I will assume it was berdan primed. Looking around,I did find one empty pasteboard box.It is marked BF80-27 and has a circle with a cross in it. I suspect this box is from a 1000 lot I bought that was sold as Israelli Military Industries.I did not own a chronograph then,but it was brass,boxer primed,and it shot very well in my STG.It is headstamped TZ80 Sorry I cannot tell you more. Surplus ammo has become expensive enough I buy new Winchester brass and load it.