44 Special questions

Bowhunter57 · March 18, 2008, 01:37 PM

Can 44 Special brass be reloaded in 44 Mag. dies?

I debating on calibers for my next handgun purchase.

I was going to purchase a 45 Long Colt, that way I could down load it to 800 to 900 f.p.s. loads for varmints and then step it up to 1200+ f.p.s. loads for whitetails, in the fall.

However, I could do the same thing with a 44 Mag., IF I used 44 Special brass....I think. I've not owned/used a 44 Special, but I have owned 44 Mags.

I intend to reload for either one.

I'm looking at a Ruger Bisley or Redhawk and haven't decided on that either.

Your opinions and experiences are appreciated.
Thank you, Bowhunter57

kjack · March 18, 2008, 01:46 PM

Yes - .44 Special can be loaded with .44 Magnum dies. My RCBS dies are marked .44 SPL/.44 Magnum.

zxcvbob · March 18, 2008, 02:00 PM

Buy .44 Special dies and you can load Specials or Magnums with it.

If you buy Magnum dies, it will probably work with both, but the crimp die might be too long to do the Specials.

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2008, 02:12 PM

Also, there is nothing to stop you from loading magnum brass with a lighter lead bullet varmint load. Elmer Keith developed the .44 mag in .44 Special brass. A .44 Magnum doesn't have a longer OAL than .44 Special. It just has a 1/8" longer case so someone with a light .44 Special revolver can't accidentally chamber a magnum loads. There is no reverse reason to avoid light charges in the bigger cases, and the powder space will be the same, so you can load from .44 Special load tables directly. This is unlike the .357/.38 Special where the Magnum OAL is 0.040" greater and a little more powder is needed to get it to match .38 Special ballistics with the same bullets.

Loading Special loads in the longer case avoids the problem of the shorter case letting lead and other fouling build up in front of the chamber throat and making it difficult to put a magnum round in. When that happens you can get excess pressure. You'll have some careful cleaning to do tin the chambers. I would just get Magnum cases and load them down for varmints. Use colored Sharpies to mark the caseheads to distinguish the loads. The only thing to watch for is that if you are loading bullets with a crimp grove, get them for the magnum so you don't have the crimp groove 1/8" too low for the long case. A few bullets available actually have two crimp groves 1/8" apart, just for that reason. The groove nearer the base is for .44 Special cases, and the one nearest the nose if for magnum cases.

scsov509 · March 18, 2008, 02:13 PM

Go with the 44 magnum, you won't be sorry. I bought my first big bore this last year and love it. I had the same thought of loading up 44 specials, but after tinkering around a bit found that a low-to-mid range cast bullet in 44 magnum is perfectly enjoyable to shoot all day long. Handloading makes the 44 more economical, enjoyable, and versatile.

RB98SS · March 18, 2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Also, there is nothing to stop you from loading magnum brass with a lighter lead bullet varmint load. Elmer Keith developed the .44 mag in .44 Special brass. A .44 Magnum doesn't have a longer OAL than .44 Special. It just has a 1/8" longer case so someone with a light .44 Special revolver can't accidentally chamber a magnum loads. There is no reverse reason to avoid light charges in the bigger cases, and the powder space will be the same, so you can load from .44 Special load tables directly.

Huh? Can someone clarify what Unclenick just said?

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2008, 02:34 PM

The .44 magnum SAMMI max OAL is 1.610"; the .44 Special is 1.615". Virtually identical. The .44 Magnum case, however, is 1.285" max, while the .44 Special case is 1.160" max, or 1/8" shorter. Peak pressure depends on the space the powder has available to burn in. This, in turn, starts out defined by how deep the bullet base seats into the case. With the same bullet and the same OAL, unless the volume of the caseheads were significantly different, which they are not in cases I've measured, the powder space is the same for both cartridges, hence the .44 Special loads will perform identically in a .44 mag case.

scsov509 · March 18, 2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

The .44 magnum SAMMI max OAL is 1.610"; the .44 Special is 1.615". Virtually identical.

I see those numbers listed in Speer 13, but these are max lengths as opposed to actual lengths of loaded rounds. You're using the same projectiles in 44 special and 44 magnum, which means that any given bullet crimped to the cannalure is going to be that much longer in 44 magnum. Speer shows for example the 240 LSWC at 1.475" in the Special vs. 1.605" in the magnum, and if you look then every load shown is longer in the Mag.

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2008, 02:49 PM

Reread what I said about the crimp grooves (most cast bullets have those rather than cannelures). With lead you can also form your own with the roll crimp profile in your seating die. Some bullet shapes will not be compatible with this exercise, and some have two crimp grooves, as I mentioned, just to handle this conundrum.

Maximum lengths are specified in revolvers to prevent the bullets from protruding from the cylinders and jamming the gun. Obviously you can load shorter if you choose, but that will raise pressure.

RB98SS · March 18, 2008, 03:11 PM

Thanks for the clarification, you learn something new every day! What you are saying makes sense, however, in looking in my Lyman reloading manual, all the common bullets listed for special and magnum definately show a shorter COL for special than magnum as a result of the shorter case. When you said "the powder space would be the same" it threw me for a loop. My reloading manuals are gospel to me as I've only been reloading for about a year now.

Thanks again.

Ozzieman · March 18, 2008, 09:53 PM

I am a 44 special fan having 6 guns in that caliber (3 others in 44 mag)
I don’t believe that ether gun is built in 44 special.
Although 44 special is well known for its accuracy, shooting 44 special will work well in the mag but accuracy will not be as good since the bullet must jump a little longer distance before it makes contact with the lands of the barrel. I would make light loads with the mag. Saves the number of different cases you have to own or work and since new brass is about the same price for ether it’s a toss.
I also own a Blackhawk in 44 mag and 45 LC. I would suggest the mag. Super Blackhawk.
You can load rounds for that gun in mag that will do damage to a smith 29 and the Ruger will eat them like candy.
Also the bullet selection for hunting is better for 44 than 45 and I find that 44 mag cases will last longer than the Long Colt.
My S Blackhawk is very old (doesn’t have the cross bar safety) and has had thousands of really hot loads and it’s as tight as the day it was built.
Go with the 44
Yes you can load specials in mag dies. I have 2 different dies sets, and both will load the special and the mag.

Bowhunter57 · March 18, 2008, 11:22 PM

Thank you, to all that have replied!

I've changed my thoughts on using 44 Special brass and will just use light loads in 44 Mag. brass. This will eliminate a number of issues.

Also, the purchase of a 44 Mag. over a 45 Colt will be a better choice for hunting purposes and IF I ever decide to sell it, the 44 Mag. will move much quicker than the 45 Colt.

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

scsov509 · March 19, 2008, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Reread what I said about the crimp grooves (most cast bullets have those rather than cannelures).

Depends on the bullet. I had referenced Speer, and their lead bullets all have cannelures. I do understand however that a crimping groove is generally more common on lead. I get the idea of setting a lead bullet in 44 magnum to the same length in 44 special, but I think it's a little inaccurate to say

Quote:

a .44 Magnum doesn't have a longer OAL than .44 Special.

44 Magnum rounds are almost always longer than 44 Specials, and if you compare listed load data or factory cartridges you'll find this to be true.

Can you seat 44 mag rounds to the shorter OAL of 44 Specials? I guess you probably can, but that is going to mean placing the bullet a lot deeper into the Magnum case than it is intended. Speer 13 shows a 240 LSWC at 1.475" in a 44 Special and 1.605" in Magnum. But if I try to use the Special OAL in a Magnum case then that is going to mean seating the bullet so deep into the case that the shoulder is actually below the case mouth, which means that there is nothing to crimp into at all. So it seems to me that it isn't really as simple as just using Special data with Magnum cases. Might work with some bullets, but I don't think it would work with any that I have used.

My own preference has been finding a more mild load in 44 Magnum that suits my plinking needs. I shoot a 240 LSWC over 9 grains of Unique, which runs just under 1,000 fps and makes a nice pleasant target round. Enough recoil to let me know I'm shooting a big bore, but enjoyable to shoot all day.

Hawg · March 19, 2008, 04:31 AM

For the original question. Newer dies will load both. Older .44 spcl. dies will load magnums but older magnum dies won't load spcls.

March 18, 2008, 01:37 PM	#1
Bowhunter57 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2002 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 301	44 Special questions Can 44 Special brass be reloaded in 44 Mag. dies? I debating on calibers for my next handgun purchase. I was going to purchase a 45 Long Colt, that way I could down load it to 800 to 900 f.p.s. loads for varmints and then step it up to 1200+ f.p.s. loads for whitetails, in the fall. However, I could do the same thing with a 44 Mag., IF I used 44 Special brass....I think. I've not owned/used a 44 Special, but I have owned 44 Mags. I intend to reload for either one. I'm looking at a Ruger Bisley or Redhawk and haven't decided on that either. Your opinions and experiences are appreciated. Thank you, Bowhunter57

March 18, 2008, 01:46 PM	#2
kjack Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Posts: 27	Fast Answer: Yes - .44 Special can be loaded with .44 Magnum dies. My RCBS dies are marked .44 SPL/.44 Magnum.

March 18, 2008, 02:12 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	Also, there is nothing to stop you from loading magnum brass with a lighter lead bullet varmint load. Elmer Keith developed the .44 mag in .44 Special brass. A .44 Magnum doesn't have a longer OAL than .44 Special. It just has a 1/8" longer case so someone with a light .44 Special revolver can't accidentally chamber a magnum loads. There is no reverse reason to avoid light charges in the bigger cases, and the powder space will be the same, so you can load from .44 Special load tables directly. This is unlike the .357/.38 Special where the Magnum OAL is 0.040" greater and a little more powder is needed to get it to match .38 Special ballistics with the same bullets. Loading Special loads in the longer case avoids the problem of the shorter case letting lead and other fouling build up in front of the chamber throat and making it difficult to put a magnum round in. When that happens you can get excess pressure. You'll have some careful cleaning to do tin the chambers. I would just get Magnum cases and load them down for varmints. Use colored Sharpies to mark the caseheads to distinguish the loads. The only thing to watch for is that if you are loading bullets with a crimp grove, get them for the magnum so you don't have the crimp groove 1/8" too low for the long case. A few bullets available actually have two crimp groves 1/8" apart, just for that reason. The groove nearer the base is for .44 Special cases, and the one nearest the nose if for magnum cases. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2008, 02:34 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	The .44 magnum SAMMI max OAL is 1.610"; the .44 Special is 1.615". Virtually identical. The .44 Magnum case, however, is 1.285" max, while the .44 Special case is 1.160" max, or 1/8" shorter. Peak pressure depends on the space the powder has available to burn in. This, in turn, starts out defined by how deep the bullet base seats into the case. With the same bullet and the same OAL, unless the volume of the caseheads were significantly different, which they are not in cases I've measured, the powder space is the same for both cartridges, hence the .44 Special loads will perform identically in a .44 mag case. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2008, 02:49 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	Reread what I said about the crimp grooves (most cast bullets have those rather than cannelures). With lead you can also form your own with the roll crimp profile in your seating die. Some bullet shapes will not be compatible with this exercise, and some have two crimp grooves, as I mentioned, just to handle this conundrum. Maximum lengths are specified in revolvers to prevent the bullets from protruding from the cylinders and jamming the gun. Obviously you can load shorter if you choose, but that will raise pressure. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2008, 02:00 PM	#3
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Buy .44 Special dies and you can load Specials or Magnums with it. If you buy Magnum dies, it will probably work with both, but the crimp die might be too long to do the Specials.

March 18, 2008, 02:13 PM	#5
scsov509 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 819	Go with the 44 magnum, you won't be sorry. I bought my first big bore this last year and love it. I had the same thought of loading up 44 specials, but after tinkering around a bit found that a low-to-mid range cast bullet in 44 magnum is perfectly enjoyable to shoot all day long. Handloading makes the 44 more economical, enjoyable, and versatile.

March 18, 2008, 03:11 PM	#10
RB98SS Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Location: Shoreview, MN Posts: 104	Thanks for the clarification, you learn something new every day! What you are saying makes sense, however, in looking in my Lyman reloading manual, all the common bullets listed for special and magnum definately show a shorter COL for special than magnum as a result of the shorter case. When you said "the powder space would be the same" it threw me for a loop. My reloading manuals are gospel to me as I've only been reloading for about a year now. Thanks again.

March 18, 2008, 09:53 PM	#11
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I am a 44 special fan having 6 guns in that caliber (3 others in 44 mag) I don’t believe that ether gun is built in 44 special. Although 44 special is well known for its accuracy, shooting 44 special will work well in the mag but accuracy will not be as good since the bullet must jump a little longer distance before it makes contact with the lands of the barrel. I would make light loads with the mag. Saves the number of different cases you have to own or work and since new brass is about the same price for ether it’s a toss. I also own a Blackhawk in 44 mag and 45 LC. I would suggest the mag. Super Blackhawk. You can load rounds for that gun in mag that will do damage to a smith 29 and the Ruger will eat them like candy. Also the bullet selection for hunting is better for 44 than 45 and I find that 44 mag cases will last longer than the Long Colt. My S Blackhawk is very old (doesn’t have the cross bar safety) and has had thousands of really hot loads and it’s as tight as the day it was built. Go with the 44 Yes you can load specials in mag dies. I have 2 different dies sets, and both will load the special and the mag.

March 18, 2008, 11:22 PM	#12
Bowhunter57 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2002 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 301	Thank you, to all that have replied! I've changed my thoughts on using 44 Special brass and will just use light loads in 44 Mag. brass. This will eliminate a number of issues. Also, the purchase of a 44 Mag. over a 45 Colt will be a better choice for hunting purposes and IF I ever decide to sell it, the 44 Mag. will move much quicker than the 45 Colt. Good hunting, Bowhunter57

March 19, 2008, 04:31 AM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	For the original question. Newer dies will load both. Older .44 spcl. dies will load magnums but older magnum dies won't load spcls.