.45 ACP Bullet Question

[ShootingNut]

Have some 200 gr LSWC #68 to load. Looking at my Accurate powder data, it shows a OAL of 1.190" for this grain SWC.
As this is WAY to short for this bullet, is the bullet profile of a #68 that much different, to require a much longer OAL?
Trying to learn about this #68, read about it being an H&G 68, original designer/creators of this SWC?
I load with Ac#5 7.8 grains, subject to feeding O.K. in my Smith, any OAL suggestions?
Thanks
SN

[ShootingNut]

I'm going with 1.250" OAL, if anyone thinks otherwise I would be pleased to hear from you.
Regards,
SN

[WESHOOT2]

Just don't make a zillion until you test some.

I find an OAL with the #68 to be 1.240--1.260" based on specific gun; mine run at 1.255--1.257".

I use 5.7g W231.

[ShootingNut]

Good advice, I won't make too many until they prove to feed in my Smith.
SN

[firechicken]

Both of my 1911's have liked 1.250" with the 200gr SWC. That length seems to work with my 230gr LRN and 230gr FMJ also.

[.45 Vet]

You might try removing the barrel from your auto, and using it as a chamber gage. My Kimber likes'em right around 1.250".

[ForneyRider]

I use 1.241 with 230gr FMJ and 1.19-1.21 with 230gr JHP with .471 crimp.

They work in Springfield XD and 1911 Loaded Stainless.

Had more issues when my crimp was too big. I loaded them at 1.25 for 230gr FMJ as well.

I hear a lot that SWC bullets won't work in XD.

[ForneyRider]

I picked up a Dillon .45ACP gage in stainless.

L.E. Wilson makes an aluminum one.

[rwilson452]

LSWC don't feed in my XD-45 but plated or molycoat do. I think it's molycoat, Bear Creek bullets.

Maybe if I tried some real hard LSWC they might work.

[Sevens]

The .45 load I make for my Longslide is 4.4 grains of Bullseye pushing a cast 200 grain SWC. Ran two mags of them through my buddy's XD45 and it begged for more.

[jhansman]

You're right rwilson452, Bear Ck. does make moly bullets, and good ones at that. Awfully hard to find, though, at least in my neck of the woods. My 1911 will feed the 200gr. SWC if I hold 'em to 1.245" or less.

[rwilson452]

the last time I bought Bear Creek I ordered direct from Bear Creek with a couple of buddies and we got free shipping.

[JustSteve]

I loaded some LSWC's to the 1.250 size for my XD... didn't work at all the bullet stuck out of the case too far.The cartridge would seat on the edge of the bullet,not the case mouth and jam.I then loaded about 10 rounds to the 1.185 size now the bullet is slightly below the edge of the case,but in racking the slide all 10 fed and ejected fine.I'am going to make adjustments until I get the bullet edge and the case mouth equal.Right now with it slightly below it is difficult to judge the amount of crimp.By the way is it possible to over Taper crimp on LSWC? I usually load TMJ and those are easier to judge the crimp.

[MASTERCAST.COM]

Boys and Girls,

The correct seating depth/overall loaded cartridge lenth for .45 ACP, with the H&G 68 200 grain SWC, to work in ALL of the .45 ACP pistols is 1.250"....If you have an old Colt, you can load to 1.265" and they will feed fine, with real accuaracy.(With jacketed hard ball magizines originally designed for the pistol.)

Many of the new guns today, will not work with that length of 1.265" and will have to be seated shorter and the powder charge adjusted accodingly.

Some Smith and Wesson Magazines will not accept anyting longer than 1.250" and your are stuck with that.

Hope this helps.

Each pistol is an individual and needs to be treated accordinly.

[MASTERCAST.COM]

I have a .45 ACP Springfield XD that will not function with a .45 200 grain SWC no matter what I have tried. I spent about two moths in the attempt.

No Problem,.....feed it anything else, and it runs flawlessly, with accuracy that boggles my mind, for a box, stock pistol.

It feeds, but will not extract the fired cartridge, and it is left in the pistol...JAM!

[WESHOOT2]

Shows that bullet as being a Hornady.

MASTERCAST: I have that exact same gun, except it's a EAA Witness.
And it took years.....
FINALLY got it running right (changed to a heavier recoil spring!!!)

[drail]

Mastercast, that really sounds like an extractor problem.

[JustSteve]

I messed around with the seating depths today.I loaded 10rnds to 1.185,and 10 to 1.205-.208(the lead bullets are not that consistant) and the winner is MASTERCAST!!!
I would fire 2 then ejection jam,clear jam,fire 2 and jam.I call it limited success because it was just jamming w/o the firing.I can live w/the FTE's until all of the #%*!!# LSWC 's are gone,then its back to RN TMJ.

[MASTERCAST.COM]

justSteve,

When I attempt to shoot SWC bullets in an XD, they feed just fine from the magazine and will fire the first one. The problem is extraction of the fired case...the back of the fired case hits the sharp shoulder on the next loaded SWC round up in the magazine, that causes the fired case to get ripped out of the extractor, leaves the fired case in the pistol and jams the same. You will also find out during the time that you are "tearing your hair out" attempting to figure out a way to make those SWC bullets work properly, that when the fired case hits the sharp shoulder of the next round up in the magazine, it imparts enough backward thrust on the next loaded round scheduled to feed, that it hits the top, back portion of the magazine hard enough to dent it after a few rounds. Now, you are wondering what in the h#@* happened to prevent your magazines from falling freely out of the magazine well...look closely, and you will find a dent or outward bulge in the top portion of the back of the magazine....I straightened out that little dent/bulge with a pair of smooth, parallel jawed pliers and mine fall free again.

The obvious solution for me is.....DON'T USE SWC BULLETS IN AN XD! I have a .45 and a .40 XD..neither one of them will run with SWC bullets for exactly the same reasons explained above. Feed them ANYTHING else designed to work in .45 acp or .40 S&W and you will be a happy camper.

There is something inherent in the design of the Springfield XD and magazines that is just not compatible with SWC bullets.

Don't bother to call Springfield for help with this problem...I did...no help or sympathy there. The response I got was "We do not warrant those pistols for use with anything but factory manufactured ammunition and the target loads with SWC bullets of factory manufacture do not have enough pressure to make that pistol function correctly." OK fine. No more SWC bullets in the XD for me.

[MASTERCAST.COM]

justSteve,

The lead bullets are "not that consistent" when you got an overall loaded length from 1.205" to 1.208"? A variation of .003" is "not that consistent" in your opinion? The next time you load some plated, copper washed, copper jacketed bullets, etc., please let me know what kind of variation you get with regard to overall loaded cartridge length with those....you are in for a real surprise.

For example...I have some very highly regarded .308 MATCH GRADE 168 grain jacketed, HPBT bullets here that give me a loaded overall cartridge length variation as high as .012". Other MATCH GRADE rifle bullets are slightly better and some are slightly worse....NONE ARE PERFECT IN THAT RESPECT.

It is not the fault of the bullets that is causing your problems with the XD..it is the design of the pistol/magazines...see above. If you bought those lead SWC .45 bullets from me, let me know, and I will replace them with something that will work in the XD-.45 230 RN , .45 225 TCFP, or .45 200 RNFP. If you would prefer a refund, let me know that, I will pay you to send those .45 SWC bullets back to me, and I will refund your money for the unused portion including your shipping and insurance costs at purchase.

[WESHOOT2]

One of the reasons I love the 'gun' business is the ethical standards of so many who participate; no higher integrity in any business.

I have many bullets, but I still prefer a RN bullet of 'standard' weight for fun shooting.

[ShootingNut]

Add a S&W 1911 as another that doesn't like anything but the RN bullet.
Tried all 3 SWC samples you sent, shortened up the TCFP to 1.200" OAL, NADA my gun ejects and chambers the next round, hammer fully cocked, but gun will not trigger and fire. So, is that the bullets being not "fully" chambered, or is my Smith not functioning properly (if so I call S&W).
Gun loves the RN though, doesn't miss a lick!
Cleaned the gun, and played around with dropping several rounds into the barrel. A few didn't go in quite as far? Didn't seem to be it though to me.
Regards,
SN

[MASTERCAST.COM]

Shootingnut,

Please e-mail me your telephone number to [email protected]..I will call you and we will see if we can diagnose the problem.

I read your last post, went down the road, borrowed a Smith 1911 from a friend, came back home, and ran a quick 100 rounds of my .45 200 SWC with 5.0 grains of Winchester 231 powder, seated to an overall cartridge length of 1.250", with no problems at all. The pistol did not "hiccup, burp, belch, wheeze" or do anything except go "boom" with each pull of the trigger. I have not run 100 rounds of .45 through a pistol, rapid fire, in a loooooong time...that was down right FUN!

Have you tried to shoot a few rounds of factory 230 grain Jacketed RN in that pistol to see if it works with those?(longer, fatter bullet nose profile than the 200 grain RNFP that are working well.) If that pistol will not run with factory 230 jacketed RN, you have a definite pistol problem.

I will call you shortly.

Mike
[email protected]

[ShootingNut]

Thanks, I will be in touch later, other things going right now.
Russ
a/k/a SN

[JustSteve]

I usually don't measure every round ,it was just an attempt to eliminate variables.MasterCast- I didn't get them from you,a buddy of my brother was selling off some old supplies so I thought I would try them out,thanks for the info.