The power of a .22

[clayking]

With the recent shooting in Finland, with a .22, in which 8 people were killed, another incident several months ago in the killing of a school principle, with a .22, and a recent deadly shooting in my community, with a .22, all seem to throw cold water on the you have to have a big one for self defense case. Yea, yea, I carry a 9mm or up, but if a kid can take out 8 in short order, with a .22, just being armed might be enough.

Go ahead, pile on.........................ck

[MrBorland]

I don't think anyone's ever denied the killing power of a .22. It's its stopping power that becomes an issue when it's considered for SD.

[Magyar]

You got a point...Kind of wants you to revisit Evan Marshall's data one more time....

[allenomics]

Robert F. Kennedy was killed by Sirhan Sirhan, using a .22.

[Tom2]

Well if someone is gonna shoot you with a 22, hopefully it will be short of stopping power so you will have time and adrenaline to grab the nearest heavy object and pummel them quite well before you lose it. Or get your effective CCW and make them regret doing it. Even the smallest gun is the biggest gun when the opposition is unarmed. But a baseball bat could even it out a little bit.

[tlm225]

Sorry but IMO using situations where the victims are unsuspecting or helpless to demonstrate the usefullness of a .22 is misleading. The real question is, can a .22 reliably stop a determined, goal oriented attacker? It's my belief that a .22 or similiar round suffices only under one of three situations:

1. Intimidation - The attacker is detered by the mere presence of a gun in the hand of his intended victim or, upon actually being shot at, he decides this wasn't as good an idea as he orginally thought.

2. Psychological - The attacker is struck by rounds fired and stops the attack or flees because he's been shot. This doesn't mean that the attacker was physically disabled. He mentally gives up the fight because of the realization that he's been shot.

3. Precise placement - The victim is cool enough under pressure and is skilled enough to strike key areas on the attacker. This despite the fact that one or both parties may be moving and the defender may be getting shot at also.

While the .22 or similar calibers may win the day, that's a mighty small chunk of lead to rely on to stop a determined person.

[Baba Louie]

Victims were not buzzed up on adrenaline or narcotics either as you or I might expect should we find ourselves face to face with Mr. Bad Guy at O dark thirty on the street, parking lot or inside our home.

Some dude cranked up on PCP or Meth isn't exactly running on condition white RPM's if ya know what I mean.

But if a .22 is all ya got when it's time to dance, then by all means, dance well, dance accurately and dance outta harm's way in a hurry.

[revance]

My reason for not carrying a .22lr

CLICK

[Hemicuda]

I have successfully dispatched MANY unsuspecting whitetailed deer at close range... car/deer victims and ahem... early season venison... and NEVER had one run away unfound...

that said, I prefer my 30-06...

no doubt that a .22 is deadly... but there ARE better self-defense tools!

[Boris Bush]

tlm225

When it comes to pistols you can replace .22 with any caliber and your statements would be true.

People have been shot by 45 ACP hollowpoints to only say "you shot me!!" and keep on fighting. I can not find it but there is a video on the net of exactly that happening.

[chris in va]

Two words...SHOT PLACEMENT.

[standerson]

About 30 years ago in a small town in WV, an elderly lady was sitting in her rocker inside her home.

Two bad guys decided to kick her door in.

She reached into a drawer and pulled out a .22 wheel gun.

The first guy was gut shot. The next one took a .22LR right between the running lights. DRT.

The piece of the skull with the bullet hole in it was in the Criminal Justice Department of the local Community College.

Shot placement is everything.

[CraigC]

Big difference between killing unarmed innocents and stopping a fight in progress. A .22 is surely better than a blunt object and harsh words but only beyond contact range. When fractions of a second seperate me from my casket I'll take every advantage I can get.

[TNBulldog]

I've got to admit I find these threads that seem to pop up once every other day about CCW stuff somewhat like beating a dead horse. How many bad guys really want to fight on for sake of meanness and thuggery after being shot anywhere with anything at close range? Now granted, I might take 4 shots from a 22 before I'd get shot once with a 44, but still, I have to believe being shot and close range with anything 22LR or up would be a pretty strong deterant for most.

[Shooter 973]

Having been shot in the back with a 22 rifle some years back, your whole focus turns to " GET ME TO THE HOSPITAL". you stop doing what ever you were doing and think about dieing...... It felt like someone punched me in the back , but other than that no real pain or knock down power. It's just the thought that you've been shot that messes with your head!

[19doberman68]

I don't doubt the lethality of the .22 caliber.
A 15 yr old girl was shot in the back and killed...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&sn=003&sc=653

[The Man]

Personally I Choose To Carry For Self Defense A 9mm or UP,A .22 Looks Better For Back Up.Remember Maybe He Killed 8 People,But Not In Self Defense,Yeah A .22 Its Still Dangerous,But For Personal Defense There Are Other Options.Thanks.

[Lawyer Daggit]

In a self defence arena you want to carry as much power as you can.

I have taken a considerable number of large wild pig with a .22- why? it is what I had on hand at the time- range was short and shot placement critical.

I don't wish to stake my life on the minimum- I want every bit of edge I can get

[G-Cym]

The point, as others have said, is stopping as in stop them immediately. If you shoot someone COM with a .22lr, yes, they have a high chance of dying. But it will probably take a few minutes. And in the mean time, they can get a few shots off at you, or take a few swings with a knife. Them falling down and bleeding out 3 minutes after you shooting them won't matter much if they also shot you in those 3 minutes.

[CajunBass]

While I wouldn't necessarly carry a 22 for self defense, unless the threat board was even paler than it normally is, if I was to find myself in a situation where for whatever reason, a 22 was all I had, I guess it would just have to do.

[44 AMP]

The best defensive handgun from a stopping power standpoint would be the 12ga shotgun. However, the Fed Gov in their wisdom has denied us those kinds of weapons (generally) for quite a long time.

All guns can kill, and any bullet in the right place can kill instantly. But when things are not perfect, bigger and more powerful guns up the odds in your favor. Nothing is 100%, and there have been cases of men taking a couple of 12ga slugs to the chest and running away (they didn't get very far, but the were able to run a short distance). Counting on a .22 to stop an attacker (who doesn't want to stop) is nearly as smart as counting on winning the lottery for your retirement income. great when it happens, but not something to count on.

No handgun has an overabundance of "stopping power", and without hitting the "off switch" nothing is for certain. But....

[Bill DeShivs]

Some of you guys sound like you are ready to do war with zombies.
Damned few assailants are going to do more than run the other direction if shot with any gun.
Why would you think you will run across someone who is so determined to do you harm that he would persist after you have shot him with anything?

[Silvanus]

Why would you think you will run across someone who is so determined to do you harm that he would persist after you have shot him with anything?

That's exactly what I'm always wondering about in threads like this. It's not like some killers are out there to get you (at least I hope that's not the case for most of you). A "normal" BG who wants to get your wallet and cellphone, will not persist if you shoot him with any gun and caliber.

[CraigC]

Damned few assailants are going to do more than run the other direction if shot with any gun.

Are you really willing to bet the life of yourself and your loved ones on that? Ever been in a fight for your life? You are making a very foolish and dangerous assumption NOT based on facts. Many people are dead because they trusted a cartridge/load that was far superior to the .22LR at stopping a fight. It doesn't take a PCP freak to shoot back after you put a 36gr slug in his body. All he has to do is point and pull the trigger. All it takes is one shot from said assailant and your life will change forever.

[JohnKSa]

Are you really willing to bet the life of yourself and your loved ones on that?

In the vast majority of self-defense gun uses, the caliber is totally irrelevant. Either the gun is not fired or the shot does not connect. In the remaining cases, a good number give up upon being shot regardless of the severity or placement of the wound. In a small percentage of cases (well under 10%) the caliber used (and the skill of the defender) will play a part, however the biggest value of a self-defense firearm isn't in it's ability to destroy the attacker but rather to rapidly change his priorities.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to use a .22LR for self-defense, but the facts tell us that in the vast majority of gun defenses a .22LR would work as well as any other firearm.

In the very rare cases where a defender must actually "break the attacker down" with bullets(attacker doesn't give up or stop until he is physically unable to do anything else), a .22LR (or any other very small caliber) would be a decided disadvantage. Even in those situations it would be possible to prevail--but it certainly lays a tremendous burden on the skill of the defender. In other words, it dramatically reduces the chance of a successful defense in a situation where a determined attacker will not desist until he is physically unable to continue.