Help wanted - best ammo choice

PackingA40 · November 25, 2007, 07:12 PM

You guys have been a great help and I have learned an aweful lot. Just purchased my second gun, a G23. Been shooting for a few years recreationally. Taking my CCW class next month. I'm a dead shot already with FMJ at the range. I already have a box of Federal Defense 135 gr Hydra shock JHP low recoil that I purchased with my gun. I don't want this to turn into an arguement as I know all opinions can be subjective or backed by documentation. All I'm asking is this, which is the load you would suggest for home defense and personal protection and why? I don't care why, I just want to hear your opinions. With all the talk of velocity, heavy bullits, punch, knock down, expansion etc, I want to know from those of you who can share your knowledge and/or experience. I've provided a few links in case anyone wants to revert back to what they carry. If your choice is not on the list, please feel free to add it. I truly hope this thread stays civil.

I'm thinking of purchasing a G27 next year as my new carry and make some upgrades to the G23 for home protection only. I plan to keep the G27 stock for potential legal reasons. I pray that I never have to use either, but things are getting rough around these parts.

Thank you all in advance for your valueable input.

http://www.federalpremium.com/ballis...mo_Search.aspx

http://www.remington.com/products/am..._saber_HPJ.asp

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm

http://www.winchester.com/products/c...V2Vzc29u&use=3

PA40

PS, other concerns, is low recoil the best for outside recovery time? Indoor? What about muzle flip? High Flash etc? I don't want to come off like Dirty Harry, I just want adequate protection in all types of climate. Heavy clothing here in Michigan is a concern also I would think. Or, am I wrong?

Thanks again.

Tanzer · November 25, 2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

I already have a box of Federal Defense 135 gr Hydra shock JHP low recoil that I purchased with my gun.

IMO, they're equal to anything out there. I think someone at the company needs a head slap for calling them low recoil however. They're no lower in recoil than anything else. If all they have at the ammo store is the Speer Lawman, I wouldn't hesitate to buy them either. Then again, I weigh more emphasis on shot placement rather than brand of ammo. NOT trying to start a caliber war - I italicized BRAND.

angeldeville · November 25, 2007, 07:48 PM

My rule of thumb is get the heaviest bullet available at the slowest speed, and none of that +P BS...

Almost all bullets will perform well, just pick the one with the prettiest box...

ATX_CHL · November 25, 2007, 08:34 PM

angeldeville,

Why do you prefer slow bullets? Isn't penetration better with the faster loads or does it go the other way around with hollow points?

angeldeville · November 25, 2007, 08:41 PM

slow bullets give the bad guys a chance to reflect on the errors of their ways...

ATX_CHL · November 25, 2007, 08:45 PM

DOH I missed the second line there or I would have caught the sarcasm.

I do like the thought of giving the BG time to reconsider before the next 17 rounds in my clip come out though

PackingA40 · November 25, 2007, 08:55 PM

There goes my thread

angeldeville · November 25, 2007, 09:07 PM

sorry....

another bit of advice is sight in really well with whatever FMJ/practice ammo you use,
then buy a few different brands of self defense ammo, and use whatever hits he same impact point as your practice ammo.

For my 1911's I use lead or RN jacketed 230 grain bullets loaded to mil-specification for practice, and 230grain Federal Hydra-shocks have the same point of impact at 25 yrds

My .380 likes 95 grain speer gold dots

and my .38 Likes 140 grain Wadcutters

ATX_CHL · November 25, 2007, 09:11 PM

"There goes my thread"

Sorry... Well while I'm here let me add my non-professional opinions. My nightstand gun is currently loaded with Winchester Ranger +P+ hollow points. I contemplated using the SXT but decided that could actually be a lawsuit liability. Ammunitiontogo.com sells these type of law enforcement bullets at a reasonable cost. I might go to winchester white box hollow points because the Ranger and Ranger SXT are too expensive to practice with.

I say 1) Pick the bullet that reliably feeds every time in your gun first 2) pick a bullet that is cheap enough that you can practice with too so you know it's reliable and you know where it shoots 3) Go with hollow point so that the bullet will have less energy upon exit and be less likely to hurt someone else. 4) Any bullet that will penetrate will be enough...I've seen a number of white tail deer brought down _instantaneously_ with badly placed .22 WMR JHP shots(do not condone) and they're much tougher than a human. 5) "knock down" power is 90% a myth, what matters is penetration and the size of the permanant wound channel.

dwatts47 · November 25, 2007, 09:16 PM

I use Winchester Ranger 155 Gr in my Glock 27.

1100FPS or so. great accuracy. Always feeds. 50 round boxes instead of 20 or 25.

Mark54g · November 25, 2007, 10:07 PM

Federal Tactical Bonded, Ranger SXT, Speer Gold Dot, CorBon anything (DPX is great but $$$), Magtech Guardian Gold, etc etc will all do very well. I would stay away from low recoil loads.
Get something moving and that you can shoot well. It has to feed it has to function, and it has to hit the target. If you can do that, repeatedly, have fun shooting that gun. That is all you can do from your end of the fight.

I would stay away from Hydra Shoks, though. I have heard of them possibly plugging with clothing materials and frankly, with so many superior designs out there, I would go with something a bit newer and a bit more advanced.

Superhouse 15 · November 25, 2007, 10:20 PM

Plenty of debate when this comes up. There are many arguments and just as many people do like I do as do the opposite. My .40 is a compact Kahr MK40. I carry 135gr Triton Quick Shok in it, a discontinued load. In the spare mags I have 155gr Starfire from PMC, now also gone. To replace them when I run out I got some of the 165gr Gold Saber. I work at a gunshop and get free ammo, and can test in wet newspaper whenever I want. That was the winner, although the Federal 155gr HST was just as good, only harder to find.
http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?s.../downloads.asp and I normally don't like bonded stuff, but this was great.

PackingA40 · November 26, 2007, 07:10 PM

Anyone else?

mountainclmbr · November 26, 2007, 08:34 PM

I like the Double Tap Ammo, you can google to find the web site. I use the 180 gr JHP in my 40 cal. These are not low recoil, but seem about the same as other rounds as far as recoil goes. These are loaded to optimize velocity in shorter barrels and function well in my gun. The bullet part of these cartridges is the Speer Gold Dot which has an electroplated jacket that is bonded to the lead core. The Speer Gold Dot is one of the best self-defense bullet designs (in my opinion) because it expands easily and the electroplated jacket bonding process eliminates the problem of jacket separation. The powder is very low flash, something you may or may not find in the other factory brands. I fired several brands in a dimly lit indoor range yesterday and the Double Tap Ammo had no noticible flash.

MTS840 · November 27, 2007, 12:21 PM

Pick one, train and be happy.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...;f=78;t=000964

Let it Bleed · November 27, 2007, 01:00 PM

I use Cor-Bon 165 gr. Claimed velocity is 1150 fps.

Personally, I will use any quality ammo designed for self-defense. Once I know it will reliably function in my pistol, I don't switch.

I read an article in one of the recent gun rags regarding muzzle flash. The pictures demonstrate the extreme variance of different loads fired from the same pistol. I haven't tested for muzzle flash as I didn't realize there was so much variance in factory ammunition within the same caliber. Some of the ammo tested created huge fireballs and others created no flash at all.

It's something to consider. I wouldn't doubt that "low-flash" becomes another marketing consideration in the near future. It would influence my choice in ammo, since I would prefer not to be temporarily blinded after one shot in low light (e.g. night-time intruder).

dirksterg30 · November 27, 2007, 01:09 PM

PackingA40, welcome to the forum. I've found this link to be very informative regarding defensive ammo: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237

rellascout · November 27, 2007, 01:17 PM

Same difference IMHO.

Any of the ammo you have listed will work.

November 25, 2007, 07:12 PM	#1
PackingA40 Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Davison, Michigan Posts: 88	Help wanted - best ammo choice You guys have been a great help and I have learned an aweful lot. Just purchased my second gun, a G23. Been shooting for a few years recreationally. Taking my CCW class next month. I'm a dead shot already with FMJ at the range. I already have a box of Federal Defense 135 gr Hydra shock JHP low recoil that I purchased with my gun. I don't want this to turn into an arguement as I know all opinions can be subjective or backed by documentation. All I'm asking is this, which is the load you would suggest for home defense and personal protection and why? I don't care why, I just want to hear your opinions. With all the talk of velocity, heavy bullits, punch, knock down, expansion etc, I want to know from those of you who can share your knowledge and/or experience. I've provided a few links in case anyone wants to revert back to what they carry. If your choice is not on the list, please feel free to add it. I truly hope this thread stays civil. I'm thinking of purchasing a G27 next year as my new carry and make some upgrades to the G23 for home protection only. I plan to keep the G27 stock for potential legal reasons. I pray that I never have to use either, but things are getting rough around these parts. Thank you all in advance for your valueable input. http://www.federalpremium.com/ballis...mo_Search.aspx http://www.remington.com/products/am..._saber_HPJ.asp http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm http://www.winchester.com/products/c...V2Vzc29u&use=3 PA40 PS, other concerns, is low recoil the best for outside recovery time? Indoor? What about muzle flip? High Flash etc? I don't want to come off like Dirty Harry, I just want adequate protection in all types of climate. Heavy clothing here in Michigan is a concern also I would think. Or, am I wrong? Thanks again. Last edited by PackingA40; November 26, 2007 at 09:41 PM.

November 25, 2007, 10:20 PM	#12
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	Ammo Plenty of debate when this comes up. There are many arguments and just as many people do like I do as do the opposite. My .40 is a compact Kahr MK40. I carry 135gr Triton Quick Shok in it, a discontinued load. In the spare mags I have 155gr Starfire from PMC, now also gone. To replace them when I run out I got some of the 165gr Gold Saber. I work at a gunshop and get free ammo, and can test in wet newspaper whenever I want. That was the winner, although the Federal 155gr HST was just as good, only harder to find. http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?s.../downloads.asp and I normally don't like bonded stuff, but this was great.

November 27, 2007, 01:09 PM	#17
dirksterg30 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 563	PackingA40, welcome to the forum. I've found this link to be very informative regarding defensive ammo: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237 __________________ Visit my webstore Right Wing Things for quality conservative gear, including gun-related and anti-Obama bumper stickers.

November 25, 2007, 07:48 PM	#3
angeldeville Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Posts: 192	My rule of thumb is get the heaviest bullet available at the slowest speed, and none of that +P BS... Almost all bullets will perform well, just pick the one with the prettiest box...

November 25, 2007, 08:34 PM	#4
ATX_CHL Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2007 Posts: 14	angeldeville, Why do you prefer slow bullets? Isn't penetration better with the faster loads or does it go the other way around with hollow points?

November 25, 2007, 08:41 PM	#5
angeldeville Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Posts: 192	slow bullets give the bad guys a chance to reflect on the errors of their ways...

November 25, 2007, 08:45 PM	#6
ATX_CHL Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2007 Posts: 14	DOH I missed the second line there or I would have caught the sarcasm. I do like the thought of giving the BG time to reconsider before the next 17 rounds in my clip come out though

November 25, 2007, 08:55 PM	#7
PackingA40 Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Davison, Michigan Posts: 88	There goes my thread

November 25, 2007, 09:07 PM	#8
angeldeville Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Posts: 192	sorry.... another bit of advice is sight in really well with whatever FMJ/practice ammo you use, then buy a few different brands of self defense ammo, and use whatever hits he same impact point as your practice ammo. For my 1911's I use lead or RN jacketed 230 grain bullets loaded to mil-specification for practice, and 230grain Federal Hydra-shocks have the same point of impact at 25 yrds My .380 likes 95 grain speer gold dots and my .38 Likes 140 grain Wadcutters

November 25, 2007, 09:11 PM	#9
ATX_CHL Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 2007 Posts: 14	"There goes my thread" Sorry... Well while I'm here let me add my non-professional opinions. My nightstand gun is currently loaded with Winchester Ranger +P+ hollow points. I contemplated using the SXT but decided that could actually be a lawsuit liability. Ammunitiontogo.com sells these type of law enforcement bullets at a reasonable cost. I might go to winchester white box hollow points because the Ranger and Ranger SXT are too expensive to practice with. I say 1) Pick the bullet that reliably feeds every time in your gun first 2) pick a bullet that is cheap enough that you can practice with too so you know it's reliable and you know where it shoots 3) Go with hollow point so that the bullet will have less energy upon exit and be less likely to hurt someone else. 4) Any bullet that will penetrate will be enough...I've seen a number of white tail deer brought down _instantaneously_ with badly placed .22 WMR JHP shots(do not condone) and they're much tougher than a human. 5) "knock down" power is 90% a myth, what matters is penetration and the size of the permanant wound channel.

November 25, 2007, 09:16 PM	#10
dwatts47 Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2007 Location: arkansas Posts: 995	I use Winchester Ranger 155 Gr in my Glock 27. 1100FPS or so. great accuracy. Always feeds. 50 round boxes instead of 20 or 25.

November 25, 2007, 10:07 PM	#11
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	Federal Tactical Bonded, Ranger SXT, Speer Gold Dot, CorBon anything (DPX is great but $$$), Magtech Guardian Gold, etc etc will all do very well. I would stay away from low recoil loads. Get something moving and that you can shoot well. It has to feed it has to function, and it has to hit the target. If you can do that, repeatedly, have fun shooting that gun. That is all you can do from your end of the fight. I would stay away from Hydra Shoks, though. I have heard of them possibly plugging with clothing materials and frankly, with so many superior designs out there, I would go with something a bit newer and a bit more advanced.

November 26, 2007, 07:10 PM	#13
PackingA40 Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Davison, Michigan Posts: 88	Anyone else?

November 26, 2007, 08:34 PM	#14
mountainclmbr Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: On a mountain in the Colorado Rockies Posts: 966	I like the Double Tap Ammo, you can google to find the web site. I use the 180 gr JHP in my 40 cal. These are not low recoil, but seem about the same as other rounds as far as recoil goes. These are loaded to optimize velocity in shorter barrels and function well in my gun. The bullet part of these cartridges is the Speer Gold Dot which has an electroplated jacket that is bonded to the lead core. The Speer Gold Dot is one of the best self-defense bullet designs (in my opinion) because it expands easily and the electroplated jacket bonding process eliminates the problem of jacket separation. The powder is very low flash, something you may or may not find in the other factory brands. I fired several brands in a dimly lit indoor range yesterday and the Double Tap Ammo had no noticible flash.

November 27, 2007, 12:21 PM	#15
MTS840 Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2004 Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina Posts: 417	Pick one, train and be happy. http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...;f=78;t=000964

November 27, 2007, 01:00 PM	#16
Let it Bleed Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 534	I use Cor-Bon 165 gr. Claimed velocity is 1150 fps. Personally, I will use any quality ammo designed for self-defense. Once I know it will reliably function in my pistol, I don't switch. I read an article in one of the recent gun rags regarding muzzle flash. The pictures demonstrate the extreme variance of different loads fired from the same pistol. I haven't tested for muzzle flash as I didn't realize there was so much variance in factory ammunition within the same caliber. Some of the ammo tested created huge fireballs and others created no flash at all. It's something to consider. I wouldn't doubt that "low-flash" becomes another marketing consideration in the near future. It would influence my choice in ammo, since I would prefer not to be temporarily blinded after one shot in low light (e.g. night-time intruder).

November 27, 2007, 01:17 PM	#18
rellascout Junior member Join Date: September 2, 2004 Posts: 2,435	Same difference IMHO. Any of the ammo you have listed will work.