LEAVING bp REVOLVERS LOADED

dalegribble · September 16, 2007, 02:06 PM

Newbee to BP here. Got a new 1858 Remington, cleaned and loaded gun and spare cylinder with a pyrodex pellet, wonderwad, ball and borebutter, no caps. Couldn't shoot as planned, left loaded for 2 weeks. Finally went out yesterday and the 2 loaded cylnders were disapointing, some misfires, some seemed like squibbs firing weakly. Reloaded using only pyrodex pellet and ball the gun worked well for the most part although 2 or 3 caps wouldn't fire on the first pull. Used a capper but not all caps seemed to be uniform on the nipples. Is there a trick to capping properly?

Can a gun be left loaded with a wonderwad and borebutter for extended periods like 2 weeks? Borebutter is extremely messy, how many people use it or some other grease? BP is dirty, the gun started to bind after 30 rounds. Is there anything cleaner than pyrodex? After the first 12 rounds the rest was alot of fun. enough bang and recoil to feel like a 44, fairly accurate and the smoke was pretty cool too. Observations of a first timer (with BP).

Jamie C. · September 16, 2007, 02:37 PM

It's probably the "no caps" that caused you trouble. The chambers were left open for the powder to absorb moisture... and probably did.

I keep my 1858 loaded with loose APP powder (fffg), a Lee 200 gr. conical bullet, and no lube, and the chambers capped. They'll all fire even after a month or two of sitting around or being carried.

The only time I ever had a problem is when a cap or two got contaminated and wouldn't fire. Once re-capped the chamber fired normally.

J.C.

dalegribble · September 16, 2007, 02:46 PM

It's probably the "no caps" that caused you trouble. The chambers were left open for the powder to absorb moisture... and probably did.

Yeah, I thought about that but I live in Phoenix, humidity or moisture are not a problem (unless you count the lack of it). I wonder more if the wonder wads caused some sort of problem, I'm not sure the borebutter could seep past the seated ball.

Hawg · September 16, 2007, 03:07 PM

Did you clean out the cylinders before you loaded it? That would be my first guess. Wonder wads might contaminate a small amount of powder right under it but I wouldn't think it would be enough to cause a squib. I really don't think it would be noticable. I've never used Pyrodex pellets but they should be ok. I can't justify the price as compared to loose powder, besides I like a lil more bang than 30 grs. Overball grease isn't necessary with wads. Cappers aren't made to seat caps, you need to do that with a wooden dowel or ease the hammer down and put enough pressure against it with your thumb to seat it. I cap and seat with my thumb but that's been touted as unsafe. However I have put a tremendous amount of pressure on a loaded cap on an empty chamber with a wooden dowel and couldn't make a cap fire.

Jamie C. · September 16, 2007, 03:07 PM

Dale, what's the humidity like inside your house, where the gun is kept?

I understand that humidity isn't a problem outside, where you live, but all sorts of things that go one inside ( cooking, showers, laundry ) could raise the humidity enough to cause problems.

Of course, if you keep your gun in an air-tight safe with fresh silica gel packs, you can forget everything I just wrote...

J.C.

dalegribble · September 16, 2007, 03:37 PM

Well I suppose the humidity in the house might be slightly more than outside, still I find it hard to believe it is a factor. As for the gun I cleaned it and dry fired some caps on the nips as recommended. The preloaded cylinders had problems the ones I loaded in the field were all fine.

Explain more to me about capping. After capping I would use my thumb to try to position and seat the caps. This is unsafe? Using a wooden dowl or lightly dropping the hammer on a cap is safe? I'm not sure I understand this capping thing but it does kinda make me nervous. Makes me wonder how a half million men were killed in the civil war using these things. I suppose it will get easier and I will get more proficient with time and experience.

Hawg · September 16, 2007, 03:52 PM

It's been said that a few caps have exploded from using thumb pressure but if so it sure is funny no lawsuits have been filed. Anyhow a wooden dowel is considered safe to seat caps with. I didn't say lightly drop the hammer I said ease the hammer down onto the cap and use thumb pressure to seat it with the hammer. Some caps require a little presure to fully seat which may be why you had a few misfires. Especially if they fired on the second drop of the hammer. FWIW, I tried to make a cap fire using a wooden dowel and as I said before put a tremendous amount of pressure on one and couldn't make it fire so I consider it extremely remote that thumb pressure alone could do it. There must have been other factors involved. If you use your thumb and blow yourself up don't blame me that's just my opinion.

45Marlin carbine · September 16, 2007, 03:59 PM

You are correct Hawg, pressing the hammer onto the cap carefully does seat the cap tightly onto the nipple. I do the same with my rifle and of course point the muzzle in a safe direction.

Jamie C. · September 16, 2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Well I suppose the humidity in the house might be slightly more than outside, still I find it hard to believe it is a factor.

*shrug* I dunno. It just seems to me that it's a lot more likely than your lube seeping past the ball and into the powder charge.

The ball should seal the chamber up tight, unless you have a seriously out-of-round chamber, or cuts/grooves in the chamber wall that the lead isn't being forced into.

So that only leaves the open nipple for things to find their way in through.

As for capping, I've always just placed the cap on the nipple and pushed it down with my thumb. Never felt the need for a dowel, since that would just be one more thing to have to keep up with.

I would NOT recommend "lightly dropping the hammer", however, since my understanding is that the caps are set off more by the shock of a sharp blow, rather than just pressure. No telling just how much or how little is "sharp enough", if you let the hammer tap the cap. Now, if you ease the hammer down, then simply push on it, as Hawg Haggen mentions, that's a bit different. But be very VERY careful lowering the hammer. Letting it slip could get loud and ugly.

J.C.

Jbar4Ranch · September 16, 2007, 05:03 PM

I've been doing a long term experiment on leaving a C&B revolver loaded. It has been capped the entire time, and toward the end of December it will hit the three year mark. Maybe I'll step out and "unload" it on New Years Eve.

(Before someone remarks how dangerous that could be to others, rest assured, there ain't no way the ball could ever make it off'n my own property without the help of a tornado or hurricane)

Raider2000 · September 16, 2007, 09:00 PM

Before I had gotten my 1911A1 I used my Colt 1860 Army loaded with 3 chambers of 28gr. FFFG & 147gr. .457 Ball & 2 chambers with 25gr. FFFG, wad & 14 lead BB's then over wad & wax along with Remington #10's as a home deffence weapon & would keep it loaded for a month or 2-3 before I would shoot it again & none ever gave me any problems.

Just be sure that the chambers are clean & dry before loading & good fitting caps on the loaded chambers & you should be fine.

Today I sometimes may load her up to be as a backup because those lead BB's sure can do some damage inside of a 20' range "had to dispatch a rabid Fox once with my 60' Army with that load."

Hawg · September 16, 2007, 09:43 PM

I found an original 58 Remmy in an old barn. All six chambers loaded and capped. I pulled the balls and the powder was still loose and flaky. I loaded one of the loads in a repro Remmy and it fired just fine. I cleaned the old gun up and got it working, sold it a few years later. Still had nice grips with military cartouche but the metal was pitted up.

plom · September 17, 2007, 07:56 AM

what about oil contamination from the niples? I had this issue one day, I had cleaned and oiled a BP revolver but forgot to fire some caps on the niples BEFORE loading the cylinder (important to burn oil left after cleaning). The oil sitting in the niples contamined the caps.
Another time I had issues with some RWS primers, they just misfired, one out of 3 in the box, since then I only use CCI caps

Musketeer · September 17, 2007, 10:32 AM

Call me nuts but WHY would you leave a capped loose cylinder laying about? That cylinder IS a gun. It is a gun with no safety whatsoever. Drop it or bump it the wrong way and BOOM. Yes, leaving caps off will allow moisture to get in. That does not mean leaving caps on a loose cylinder is a good idea!

Now as to a loaded BP gun... Unless there is some reason you cannot have a gun with brass loaded cartridges there is absolutely no reason to keep a BP loaded and laying about. If there is a law preventing your ownership of a modern handgun look closely at the BP laws. In NY you can own a BP revolver without a NY Pistol Permit BUT if you have balls, powder and caps it is now considerred a functional handgun and subject to the laws of NYS. That means if you have one with all those components, not even loaded but in the house, and don't have a permit you are guilty of having a handgun without a permit. Check your local laws.

Hickock fired off both his BP revolvers every morning and reloaded them so he knew they would be ready, today he would have loaded cartridges. A 38 revolver second hand is not that expensive. Get one and leave the BP to range and re-enactment fun.

plom · September 17, 2007, 11:55 AM

or a shotgun...

Jamie C. · September 17, 2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Unless there is some reason you cannot have a gun with brass loaded cartridges there is absolutely no reason to keep a BP loaded and laying about.

Oh yes there is: Because I can, and because I want to.

It's all the reason I need, being that it's my house and my guns.

Oh, and Wild Bill chose to keep his .36 Navies long after he could've had cartridge-firing pistols.

J.C.

Steve499 · September 17, 2007, 04:17 PM

Keeping a percussion revolver reliably loaded and ready was undoubtedly easier in the old days than it is today. Why? Two reasons. First, because there was no alternative, they had to learn what worked. Second, most, if not all of their lubricants were animal or vegetable based, neither of which "kill" powder and caps like break-free or wd-40 will.

When I stopped lubricating my freshly cleaned black powder arms with anything petroleum based, I stopped having misfires. Period. There are other things which can cause one, sure, but once you've learned which caps actually fit your gun, I'd venture that 95% of all misfires are caused by residual lubricant at the base of the chamber. You can snap several caps but they won't dry areas they can't reach. You can't reach those areas well with a dry patch, either, in a rifle. If the rearmost part of your powder charge gets dampened it can't kick the whole charge off. I don't have a clue how or why the olive oil I now lubricate with acts differently on powder and caps than petroleum based lubricants, I just know it does.

Wish I could get some sperm oil. The real stuff, not some supposed equivalent. That's most likely the predominant gun oil for the majority of our entire history until the turn of the 20th century or so.

plom · September 17, 2007, 04:49 PM

a man posted a good thread on this forum one day, I read it every day

Black Powder Ramblings

A man wakes up at 5am and rolls out of a warm bed. It’s chilly in the house so he pulls his clothes on to go out to the wood pile to bring in some firewood. Over his clothes he puts on his gun belt, and in his holster goes the 1858 new model army revolver.
The dog wakes up as he walks out the door towards the wood pile. She runs circles around him, jumping up and down and wagging her tail, she just happy to be anywhere, dogs are like that. She’s no help with the wood but she gets tickled on the ears anyway.
Everything is quiet outside the house and the air is cold. A few minutes later, the dog is asleep again, a fire is roaring in the fire place and the man sits in front of the fire with a cup of hot coffee in hand and the 58 Remington pistol on the table beside him.
He looks at the pistol and wonders how many men before him have gone through the same routine before daylight in the morning. He wonders how many men might have had to draw their 58 in defense of life and family while they were just going out to bring in some wood to warm the house on a cold morning. Stray thoughts in front of the fire early in the morning.
Are you thinking this is a story from the 1860’s? Well it isn’t, the man is me and this is how I started my day today. This is a well worn routine from times past that thousands of people have been through. Just because we have central heat and air is no reason not to burn a fire in the morning if you like that sort of thing. But in this age of newer and better and faster, the old routines get left by the wayside.
It’s the same with guns. Everybody wants the newest auto loader that holds 25 rounds in the mag plus one in the pipe and the frame is some sort of graphite composite that will still be around 500 years from now. Everyone wants the newest big bang, break my wrist, yikes that made be sh** my pants load that came out just last week. And that’s fine, it’s the way things work.
But there’s a certain charm in the old BP revolver. Instead of spray and pray, you take aim and make the shot count. The old BP revolver reminds us of times past and a different way of doing things. There are some of us out there that like to look back at the past when men acted like men. Don’t get me wrong I like my modern conveniences, but there’s nothing wrong with knowing how to heat with real wood or how to hunt and fish. There’s nothing wrong with knowing how to do things the old fashioned way…..if you want to.

Hawg · September 17, 2007, 04:54 PM

I like that. Thanks for posting it Plom. I wouldn't want a bp revolver for cc but I'd pack one for just about any other reason.

Jamie C. · September 17, 2007, 05:09 PM

Y'know, Plom, the wife and I and our 6 dogs sit out back around a fire on a regular basis. Usually in the evening after supper. We like watching the fire better than watching TV. ( The dogs even get kind'a perturbed at us on the nights we don't go build a fire. )

There's always a pistol laying on the little table beside my chair, while we're there. It's usually a copy of a '58 Remington....

J.C.

Charles S · September 17, 2007, 05:18 PM

plom,

Great post....Thanks for posting it.

There is something comforting (a close friend of mine says ingrained in man) about a fire and a dog.

Anyway thanks. Great post. Makes me yearn for cooler weather and early mornings with a fire and a cup of coffee.

plom · September 17, 2007, 05:41 PM

Thanks guys, but here again this text is not from me, I just recognize myself in it
I don't say BP revolvers are better than modern revolver or pistols, but a BP revolver is still a weapon, and better than nothing.
A 141 grs soft lead bullet driven at over 900 fps is plenty enough for me to stop a bad guy!
For my home defense needs I rely on a marlin lever action, a 12ga coach gun and back them up with my BP revolvers.

and my Rottweiler
but back on this topic, YES modern oil easily contamine caps and powder so that may be the reason of your failures.

Hawg · September 17, 2007, 08:24 PM

Nice coach gun but that SASS badge don't exactly go with that outfit.

Raider2000 · September 17, 2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musketeer

Call me nuts but WHY would you leave a capped loose cylinder laying about? That cylinder IS a gun. It is a gun with no safety whatsoever. Drop it or bump it the wrong way and BOOM. Yes, leaving caps off will allow moisture to get in. That does not mean leaving caps on a loose cylinder is a good idea!

Now as to a loaded BP gun... Unless there is some reason you cannot have a gun with brass loaded cartridges there is absolutely no reason to keep a BP loaded and laying about. If there is a law preventing your ownership of a modern handgun look closely at the BP laws. In NY you can own a BP revolver without a NY Pistol Permit BUT if you have balls, powder and caps it is now considerred a functional handgun and subject to the laws of NYS. That means if you have one with all those components, not even loaded but in the house, and don't have a permit you are guilty of having a handgun without a permit. Check your local laws.

Hickock fired off both his BP revolvers every morning and reloaded them so he knew they would be ready, today he would have loaded cartridges. A 38 revolver second hand is not that expensive. Get one and leave the BP to range and re-enactment fun.

Ok now please don't get me wrong but this is my take on this subject of a home deffence weapon being a Cap & Ball Revolver.

First:
If you don't have the ability "monetary wise or other" to purchase a good handgun & you like to shoot C&B revolvers then this is a good alternative till you can get something more modern.

Second:
Today I have a decent array of capable weapons to deffend my family & home like my trusty Colt M1911A1 .45acp, Browning Hi Power 9mm, & Winchester 1200 12ga just to name a few but I also have to think of my family & neighbors when the time comes to use such force, my 12ga would be ideal but to simply walk through the house with it to check on an unusual noise is not a great idea & I know for a fact that my .45acp & 9mm will penetrate through most of the walls in my house possibly endangering some one that I did not intend to hurt, but my trusty 1860 Army loaded like I mentioned gives good stopping power but not over penetration which to me is ideal, I can carry it either in it's holster or in hand "if neccessary" & be at the ready but have a weapon that is very capable of the chore at hand yet be less of a danger to those a few rooms down the hall "if the trigger was needed" because even the standard "military" round ball load although quite potent would lose energy very quick when it hits hard objects.

This is why I still from time to time load my 1860 Army in this fashion knowing that if needed she's dependable but with a little restraint & like Plom's posting you don't need all that horse power or fire power "for that matter" to defend your home in most cases.

I will end my post with this..
All my modern weapons are kept loaded for that "God help me" time when I may need either one of them "including a few Swords" but I've learned that if I slow down & think of the what ifs, that 1860 Army is just as viable a solution if not more "in my collection" than anything else I have & I do not blame any one else in thinking similarly as I..

plom · September 18, 2007, 05:14 AM

you're right Hawg Haggen

I'll make a new pic with hat and boots

Raider2000 you're very right concerning overpenetration, I would like to add another point.
When things happen and a BG decide to take your home as target, the first step is to protect your family, defend your life, and SURVIVE the situation.
Anybody with some awareness, and training will do it.
but AFTER, what most of us forget is to survive COURT. Of course I prefer to be judged by 12 than buried by 6, but still I like my freedom.
Believe me, in the eyes of a judge there is a BIG difference between the guy using grand dad's revolver or hunting coach gun or the guy with tactical modern équipement. When the atorney will show to the jury what weapon was used, there will be a different psychological impact between a remington 870 with wood stock and the one with black fiber stocks. It sound wierd but for most people not knowing firearms wood stocks on a shotgun is made for hunt, black fiber stocks are made for war or defense. the same difference can be applied in front of a jury between a glock and a BP revolver.
Figure, some years ago some Police county even made the switch from Ruger Mini 14 to marlins lever actions because some politicals tough it was less "agressive" to see!
Those days they quickly tend to speak of premeditation, or people tending to "play cops".

September 17, 2007, 10:32 AM	#14
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	Call me nuts but WHY would you leave a capped loose cylinder laying about? That cylinder IS a gun. It is a gun with no safety whatsoever. Drop it or bump it the wrong way and BOOM. Yes, leaving caps off will allow moisture to get in. That does not mean leaving caps on a loose cylinder is a good idea! Now as to a loaded BP gun... Unless there is some reason you cannot have a gun with brass loaded cartridges there is absolutely no reason to keep a BP loaded and laying about. If there is a law preventing your ownership of a modern handgun look closely at the BP laws. In NY you can own a BP revolver without a NY Pistol Permit BUT if you have balls, powder and caps it is now considerred a functional handgun and subject to the laws of NYS. That means if you have one with all those components, not even loaded but in the house, and don't have a permit you are guilty of having a handgun without a permit. Check your local laws. Hickock fired off both his BP revolvers every morning and reloaded them so he knew they would be ready, today he would have loaded cartridges. A 38 revolver second hand is not that expensive. Get one and leave the BP to range and re-enactment fun. __________________ "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

September 16, 2007, 02:06 PM	#1
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	LEAVING bp REVOLVERS LOADED Newbee to BP here. Got a new 1858 Remington, cleaned and loaded gun and spare cylinder with a pyrodex pellet, wonderwad, ball and borebutter, no caps. Couldn't shoot as planned, left loaded for 2 weeks. Finally went out yesterday and the 2 loaded cylnders were disapointing, some misfires, some seemed like squibbs firing weakly. Reloaded using only pyrodex pellet and ball the gun worked well for the most part although 2 or 3 caps wouldn't fire on the first pull. Used a capper but not all caps seemed to be uniform on the nipples. Is there a trick to capping properly? Can a gun be left loaded with a wonderwad and borebutter for extended periods like 2 weeks? Borebutter is extremely messy, how many people use it or some other grease? BP is dirty, the gun started to bind after 30 rounds. Is there anything cleaner than pyrodex? After the first 12 rounds the rest was alot of fun. enough bang and recoil to feel like a 44, fairly accurate and the smoke was pretty cool too. Observations of a first timer (with BP).

September 16, 2007, 02:37 PM	#2
Jamie C. Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 46	It's probably the "no caps" that caused you trouble. The chambers were left open for the powder to absorb moisture... and probably did. I keep my 1858 loaded with loose APP powder (fffg), a Lee 200 gr. conical bullet, and no lube, and the chambers capped. They'll all fire even after a month or two of sitting around or being carried. The only time I ever had a problem is when a cap or two got contaminated and wouldn't fire. Once re-capped the chamber fired normally. J.C.

September 16, 2007, 02:46 PM	#3
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	It's probably the "no caps" that caused you trouble. The chambers were left open for the powder to absorb moisture... and probably did. Yeah, I thought about that but I live in Phoenix, humidity or moisture are not a problem (unless you count the lack of it). I wonder more if the wonder wads caused some sort of problem, I'm not sure the borebutter could seep past the seated ball.

September 16, 2007, 03:07 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,382	Did you clean out the cylinders before you loaded it? That would be my first guess. Wonder wads might contaminate a small amount of powder right under it but I wouldn't think it would be enough to cause a squib. I really don't think it would be noticable. I've never used Pyrodex pellets but they should be ok. I can't justify the price as compared to loose powder, besides I like a lil more bang than 30 grs. Overball grease isn't necessary with wads. Cappers aren't made to seat caps, you need to do that with a wooden dowel or ease the hammer down and put enough pressure against it with your thumb to seat it. I cap and seat with my thumb but that's been touted as unsafe. However I have put a tremendous amount of pressure on a loaded cap on an empty chamber with a wooden dowel and couldn't make a cap fire.

September 16, 2007, 03:37 PM	#6
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	Well I suppose the humidity in the house might be slightly more than outside, still I find it hard to believe it is a factor. As for the gun I cleaned it and dry fired some caps on the nips as recommended. The preloaded cylinders had problems the ones I loaded in the field were all fine. Explain more to me about capping. After capping I would use my thumb to try to position and seat the caps. This is unsafe? Using a wooden dowl or lightly dropping the hammer on a cap is safe? I'm not sure I understand this capping thing but it does kinda make me nervous. Makes me wonder how a half million men were killed in the civil war using these things. I suppose it will get easier and I will get more proficient with time and experience.

September 16, 2007, 03:52 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,382	It's been said that a few caps have exploded from using thumb pressure but if so it sure is funny no lawsuits have been filed. Anyhow a wooden dowel is considered safe to seat caps with. I didn't say lightly drop the hammer I said ease the hammer down onto the cap and use thumb pressure to seat it with the hammer. Some caps require a little presure to fully seat which may be why you had a few misfires. Especially if they fired on the second drop of the hammer. FWIW, I tried to make a cap fire using a wooden dowel and as I said before put a tremendous amount of pressure on one and couldn't make it fire so I consider it extremely remote that thumb pressure alone could do it. There must have been other factors involved. If you use your thumb and blow yourself up don't blame me that's just my opinion.

September 16, 2007, 03:59 PM	#8
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	You are correct Hawg, pressing the hammer onto the cap carefully does seat the cap tightly onto the nipple. I do the same with my rifle and of course point the muzzle in a safe direction.

September 16, 2007, 05:03 PM	#10
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,721	I've been doing a long term experiment on leaving a C&B revolver loaded. It has been capped the entire time, and toward the end of December it will hit the three year mark. Maybe I'll step out and "unload" it on New Years Eve. (Before someone remarks how dangerous that could be to others, rest assured, there ain't no way the ball could ever make it off'n my own property without the help of a tornado or hurricane) __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

September 16, 2007, 09:00 PM	#11
Raider2000 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 719	Before I had gotten my 1911A1 I used my Colt 1860 Army loaded with 3 chambers of 28gr. FFFG & 147gr. .457 Ball & 2 chambers with 25gr. FFFG, wad & 14 lead BB's then over wad & wax along with Remington #10's as a home deffence weapon & would keep it loaded for a month or 2-3 before I would shoot it again & none ever gave me any problems. Just be sure that the chambers are clean & dry before loading & good fitting caps on the loaded chambers & you should be fine. Today I sometimes may load her up to be as a backup because those lead BB's sure can do some damage inside of a 20' range "had to dispatch a rabid Fox once with my 60' Army with that load."

September 16, 2007, 09:43 PM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,382	I found an original 58 Remmy in an old barn. All six chambers loaded and capped. I pulled the balls and the powder was still loose and flaky. I loaded one of the loads in a repro Remmy and it fired just fine. I cleaned the old gun up and got it working, sold it a few years later. Still had nice grips with military cartouche but the metal was pitted up.

September 17, 2007, 07:56 AM	#13
plom Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 582	what about oil contamination from the niples? I had this issue one day, I had cleaned and oiled a BP revolver but forgot to fire some caps on the niples BEFORE loading the cylinder (important to burn oil left after cleaning). The oil sitting in the niples contamined the caps. Another time I had issues with some RWS primers, they just misfired, one out of 3 in the box, since then I only use CCI caps

September 17, 2007, 11:55 AM	#15
plom Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 582	or a shotgun...

September 17, 2007, 04:17 PM	#17
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Keeping a percussion revolver reliably loaded and ready was undoubtedly easier in the old days than it is today. Why? Two reasons. First, because there was no alternative, they had to learn what worked. Second, most, if not all of their lubricants were animal or vegetable based, neither of which "kill" powder and caps like break-free or wd-40 will. When I stopped lubricating my freshly cleaned black powder arms with anything petroleum based, I stopped having misfires. Period. There are other things which can cause one, sure, but once you've learned which caps actually fit your gun, I'd venture that 95% of all misfires are caused by residual lubricant at the base of the chamber. You can snap several caps but they won't dry areas they can't reach. You can't reach those areas well with a dry patch, either, in a rifle. If the rearmost part of your powder charge gets dampened it can't kick the whole charge off. I don't have a clue how or why the olive oil I now lubricate with acts differently on powder and caps than petroleum based lubricants, I just know it does. Wish I could get some sperm oil. The real stuff, not some supposed equivalent. That's most likely the predominant gun oil for the majority of our entire history until the turn of the 20th century or so.

September 17, 2007, 04:49 PM	#18
plom Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 582	a man posted a good thread on this forum one day, I read it every day Black Powder Ramblings A man wakes up at 5am and rolls out of a warm bed. It’s chilly in the house so he pulls his clothes on to go out to the wood pile to bring in some firewood. Over his clothes he puts on his gun belt, and in his holster goes the 1858 new model army revolver. The dog wakes up as he walks out the door towards the wood pile. She runs circles around him, jumping up and down and wagging her tail, she just happy to be anywhere, dogs are like that. She’s no help with the wood but she gets tickled on the ears anyway. Everything is quiet outside the house and the air is cold. A few minutes later, the dog is asleep again, a fire is roaring in the fire place and the man sits in front of the fire with a cup of hot coffee in hand and the 58 Remington pistol on the table beside him. He looks at the pistol and wonders how many men before him have gone through the same routine before daylight in the morning. He wonders how many men might have had to draw their 58 in defense of life and family while they were just going out to bring in some wood to warm the house on a cold morning. Stray thoughts in front of the fire early in the morning. Are you thinking this is a story from the 1860’s? Well it isn’t, the man is me and this is how I started my day today. This is a well worn routine from times past that thousands of people have been through. Just because we have central heat and air is no reason not to burn a fire in the morning if you like that sort of thing. But in this age of newer and better and faster, the old routines get left by the wayside. It’s the same with guns. Everybody wants the newest auto loader that holds 25 rounds in the mag plus one in the pipe and the frame is some sort of graphite composite that will still be around 500 years from now. Everyone wants the newest big bang, break my wrist, yikes that made be sh** my pants load that came out just last week. And that’s fine, it’s the way things work. But there’s a certain charm in the old BP revolver. Instead of spray and pray, you take aim and make the shot count. The old BP revolver reminds us of times past and a different way of doing things. There are some of us out there that like to look back at the past when men acted like men. Don’t get me wrong I like my modern conveniences, but there’s nothing wrong with knowing how to heat with real wood or how to hunt and fish. There’s nothing wrong with knowing how to do things the old fashioned way…..if you want to.

September 17, 2007, 04:54 PM	#19
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,382	I like that. Thanks for posting it Plom. I wouldn't want a bp revolver for cc but I'd pack one for just about any other reason.

September 17, 2007, 05:09 PM	#20
Jamie C. Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 46	Y'know, Plom, the wife and I and our 6 dogs sit out back around a fire on a regular basis. Usually in the evening after supper. We like watching the fire better than watching TV. ( The dogs even get kind'a perturbed at us on the nights we don't go build a fire. ) There's always a pistol laying on the little table beside my chair, while we're there. It's usually a copy of a '58 Remington.... J.C.

September 17, 2007, 05:18 PM	#21
Charles S Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2002 Location: North East Texas Posts: 950	plom, Great post....Thanks for posting it. There is something comforting (a close friend of mine says ingrained in man) about a fire and a dog. Anyway thanks. Great post. Makes me yearn for cooler weather and early mornings with a fire and a cup of coffee.

September 17, 2007, 05:41 PM	#22
plom Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 582	Thanks guys, but here again this text is not from me, I just recognize myself in it I don't say BP revolvers are better than modern revolver or pistols, but a BP revolver is still a weapon, and better than nothing. A 141 grs soft lead bullet driven at over 900 fps is plenty enough for me to stop a bad guy! For my home defense needs I rely on a marlin lever action, a 12ga coach gun and back them up with my BP revolvers. and my Rottweiler but back on this topic, YES modern oil easily contamine caps and powder so that may be the reason of your failures.

September 17, 2007, 08:24 PM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,382	Nice coach gun but that SASS badge don't exactly go with that outfit.

September 18, 2007, 05:14 AM	#25
plom Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 582	you're right Hawg Haggen I'll make a new pic with hat and boots Raider2000 you're very right concerning overpenetration, I would like to add another point. When things happen and a BG decide to take your home as target, the first step is to protect your family, defend your life, and SURVIVE the situation. Anybody with some awareness, and training will do it. but AFTER, what most of us forget is to survive COURT. Of course I prefer to be judged by 12 than buried by 6, but still I like my freedom. Believe me, in the eyes of a judge there is a BIG difference between the guy using grand dad's revolver or hunting coach gun or the guy with tactical modern équipement. When the atorney will show to the jury what weapon was used, there will be a different psychological impact between a remington 870 with wood stock and the one with black fiber stocks. It sound wierd but for most people not knowing firearms wood stocks on a shotgun is made for hunt, black fiber stocks are made for war or defense. the same difference can be applied in front of a jury between a glock and a BP revolver. Figure, some years ago some Police county even made the switch from Ruger Mini 14 to marlins lever actions because some politicals tough it was less "agressive" to see! Those days they quickly tend to speak of premeditation, or people tending to "play cops".