7.7MM/46 HELP!?!?? Who knows ANYTHING??

TheShootist1894 · October 25, 2007, 06:51 PM

I am looking at a German made hunting rifle marked only 7.7MM/46 pertaining to caliber, bore was measured at .305 at the muzzle. . .
Anything?
Is there ammo available?
Thanks
Karl

**44 AMP** · October 25, 2007, 10:12 PM

And have a chamber cast made, and the barrel slugged. You can do this yourself, if you don't mind the hassle.

Slugging the bore will get you the actual bore dimentions, and a chamber cast will give you the actual chamber measurements. Once you have these, you can compare them to cartridge dimensions, and find out what the rifle is actually made to shoot.

7.7mm is usually .303 cal (.311-.312 nominal bullet diameter), BUT it may not be. And even if it is, there can be a lot of variation in actual bore diameter. 7.7 Japanese, .303 British, and 7.62x54R all use the same .311/.312 bullets in standard loadings.

What did you use to measure the bore at the muzzle? Calipers can easily give you a misleading reading unless extreme care is used. Slugging the barrel (driving a soft lead "slug" through the bore, so it upsets and fills the grooves) and then measuring the slug is the best way to determine the actual bore and groove diameter.

7.7mm may be the bore size, or it may be the cartridge name. In the US we have .22, .221,.222,.223,.224,&.225 rounds that all use a .224" diameter bullet. We have .30s, .300s,.308s & others that use a .308" bullet. Cartridge name is only somewhat related to actual bore size.

Take the gun to a gunsmith who knows how to do casting/slugging. Everything else is guess work. Guessing what the right ammo is, is NOT a good idea.

And tell us some more about the rifle, please.

samsmix · October 25, 2007, 10:14 PM

Amen.

TheShootist1894 · October 25, 2007, 10:40 PM

Because I like the looks, styling, and nostalgia of the old Belgian/German single shots, I have a Belgian Flobert in 32 RF, have shot it TWICE, and wish i could find new or old shooter ammo for it, it shot well, but is not that practical for hunting, 8-9 lb single shot rimfire

This rifle came over on a boat with an ancestor from my Father's side, they immigrated to the USA in the late 19th century
This gun on 'broker seems to be of higher quality, and larger caliber

which would be nice to hunt with at least once

Here is the aution number
Item # 83418446

Hope this helps

Karl

Triple J · October 25, 2007, 10:44 PM

If you can't find ammo for it you could always make it into a lamp

**Mike Irwin** · October 25, 2007, 10:46 PM

Can you tell us anything about the age of the gun?

That might help narrow it down a little bit.

But, based on the nominal caliber markings, the closest caliber match I can find is .32-40 Bullard, but I highly suspect that that's not it.

TheShootist1894 · October 25, 2007, 10:59 PM

The guy has no idea of age, you can look at it on Gunbroker and see what you think, I have been bugging the hell out of him for more info but he knows very little, he only found the markings mentioned in the aution and 7.7/46, and he used a caliper to measure the bore. . .

**Mike Irwin** · October 26, 2007, 01:25 AM

I tried searching on 7.7 and all I came up with was Japanese Arisaka stuff.

Got a link?

pesta2 · October 26, 2007, 09:18 AM

That is strange. The only think that sounds similar is the 7mmx64 Brenneke, but is 7mm and is longer. I would post here, if it is a odd cartridge someone here will know:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/index.php

Jim Watson · October 26, 2007, 09:30 AM

7.7mm might be the bore diameter of a rifle chambered for 8.15x46R which was a very popular target and medium-small game round in the late 19th - early 20th centuries. Groove diameter - bullet diameter might be anywhere in the general 8mm range. A friend has one that he gets excellent accuracy with .30-30 cast bullets maybe .312" out of the mould without sizing; others shoot well with .32-40 bullets at .322".

You need to make a chamber cast to identify the case and to slug the bore to get the groove diameter. Which makes bidding on a 'net auction kind of a crapshoot. This is not a name brand gun and is of medium quality at best. Don't get carried away.

For sale at
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=83418446

Red_Eagle · October 26, 2007, 12:02 PM

Judging from the markings (Hohenzollern eagle) I would guess than it could have been made in Imperial Germany (1871-1918), but definitely prior to WW 2. Judging by the design I'd say there is at least a chance it could be black powder.

October 25, 2007, 06:51 PM	#1
TheShootist1894 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Location: Putnam County Ohio Posts: 324	7.7MM/46 HELP!?!?? Who knows ANYTHING?? I am looking at a German made hunting rifle marked only 7.7MM/46 pertaining to caliber, bore was measured at .305 at the muzzle. . . Anything? Is there ammo available? Thanks Karl

October 25, 2007, 10:12 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,484	Time to go to a gunsmith And have a chamber cast made, and the barrel slugged. You can do this yourself, if you don't mind the hassle. Slugging the bore will get you the actual bore dimentions, and a chamber cast will give you the actual chamber measurements. Once you have these, you can compare them to cartridge dimensions, and find out what the rifle is actually made to shoot. 7.7mm is usually .303 cal (.311-.312 nominal bullet diameter), BUT it may not be. And even if it is, there can be a lot of variation in actual bore diameter. 7.7 Japanese, .303 British, and 7.62x54R all use the same .311/.312 bullets in standard loadings. What did you use to measure the bore at the muzzle? Calipers can easily give you a misleading reading unless extreme care is used. Slugging the barrel (driving a soft lead "slug" through the bore, so it upsets and fills the grooves) and then measuring the slug is the best way to determine the actual bore and groove diameter. 7.7mm may be the bore size, or it may be the cartridge name. In the US we have .22, .221,.222,.223,.224,&.225 rounds that all use a .224" diameter bullet. We have .30s, .300s,.308s & others that use a .308" bullet. Cartridge name is only somewhat related to actual bore size. Take the gun to a gunsmith who knows how to do casting/slugging. Everything else is guess work. Guessing what the right ammo is, is NOT a good idea. And tell us some more about the rifle, please. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 25, 2007, 10:14 PM	#3
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	Amen. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

October 25, 2007, 10:40 PM	#4
TheShootist1894 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Location: Putnam County Ohio Posts: 324	Ok so it is on Gunbroker, but I am interested in it. . . Because I like the looks, styling, and nostalgia of the old Belgian/German single shots, I have a Belgian Flobert in 32 RF, have shot it TWICE, and wish i could find new or old shooter ammo for it, it shot well, but is not that practical for hunting, 8-9 lb single shot rimfire This rifle came over on a boat with an ancestor from my Father's side, they immigrated to the USA in the late 19th century This gun on 'broker seems to be of higher quality, and larger caliber which would be nice to hunt with at least once Here is the aution number Item # 83418446 Hope this helps Karl

October 25, 2007, 10:44 PM	#5
Triple J Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Ottawa, Oh. Posts: 15	Old Rifle If you can't find ammo for it you could always make it into a lamp

October 25, 2007, 10:46 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Can you tell us anything about the age of the gun? That might help narrow it down a little bit. But, based on the nominal caliber markings, the closest caliber match I can find is .32-40 Bullard, but I highly suspect that that's not it. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 25, 2007, 10:59 PM	#7
TheShootist1894 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Location: Putnam County Ohio Posts: 324	Age The guy has no idea of age, you can look at it on Gunbroker and see what you think, I have been bugging the hell out of him for more info but he knows very little, he only found the markings mentioned in the aution and 7.7/46, and he used a caliper to measure the bore. . .

October 26, 2007, 01:25 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	I tried searching on 7.7 and all I came up with was Japanese Arisaka stuff. Got a link? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 26, 2007, 09:18 AM	#9
pesta2 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,682	That is strange. The only think that sounds similar is the 7mmx64 Brenneke, but is 7mm and is longer. I would post here, if it is a odd cartridge someone here will know: http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/index.php __________________ http://www.stevekonya.com

October 26, 2007, 09:30 AM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,185	7.7mm might be the bore diameter of a rifle chambered for 8.15x46R which was a very popular target and medium-small game round in the late 19th - early 20th centuries. Groove diameter - bullet diameter might be anywhere in the general 8mm range. A friend has one that he gets excellent accuracy with .30-30 cast bullets maybe .312" out of the mould without sizing; others shoot well with .32-40 bullets at .322". You need to make a chamber cast to identify the case and to slug the bore to get the groove diameter. Which makes bidding on a 'net auction kind of a crapshoot. This is not a name brand gun and is of medium quality at best. Don't get carried away. For sale at http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=83418446

October 26, 2007, 12:02 PM	#11
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	Judging from the markings (Hohenzollern eagle) I would guess than it could have been made in Imperial Germany (1871-1918), but definitely prior to WW 2. Judging by the design I'd say there is at least a chance it could be black powder.