Opinions on different malfunction clearance procedure ?

alizeefan · October 16, 2007, 07:39 PM

Our instructor is teaching a variation of the type 3 clearance drill that requires you to lock slide to the rear and strip mag like usual but then you use overhand technique to release slide, insert new mag and rack slide theoretically extracting chambered round and chambering new round. Does anyone see any merit in this or is it asking for trouble ?.

Also for a stovepipe i have heard some people advocate a tap-roll-rack to clear the problem but others claim this may cause a double feed if a round has left magazine feed lips ( I have tried to cause this but have been unable to ) . Any thoughts/opinions , particularly from other instructors, would be much appreciated as this type of knowledge in the hysterically anti-gun australia

is hard to come by. thank you.

Rob Pincus · October 16, 2007, 08:01 PM

If I read that right, he is suggesting to insert the fresh mag before ensuring that the chamber is clear after any malfunction that Tap-rack-Assess/bang didn't clear?

I would strongly disagree... in the case the you have a bad extractor or a ripped case rim (the two most likely causes of real malfunctions that are not a failure to feed or a failure to fire), you might need multiple manipulations of the slide, gravity or more to get the chamber clear. Inserting a full mag before ensuring you have the chamber clear is a recipe for another double feed.

-RJP

dwatts47 · October 17, 2007, 12:20 AM

This type of malf. happened to me at a match once, and was very hard to 'clear'...

I practiced tap rack bang, but when the extractor rips the caserim and the case stays in the bore you've just complicated the problem for yourself. It's alot harder to remember to invert the gun to eject the 'double-fed' round and then eject the mag to clear it.

unless you can SEE that all is needed is a tap rack bang (the guns not half out of battery w/a double feed) then you're always better to eject your mag clear the gun/rounds then insert and rechamber.

MHO...

alizeefan · October 17, 2007, 02:37 AM

Thanks for your input fellas. I posted a similar thread on another forum but have not been able to log in again

. The general opinion is that the traditional three racks and insert mag is the way to go (which I was initially taught ). The answers I received did lead me to wonder how many people actually check for a clear chamber after racking slide three times and how many simply action slide on auto pilot and insert fresh mag. Does anyone have any experience of using tap-roll-rack to clear a stovepipe and actually end up causing a double feed ?. Again thanks for the input. It is great to have a forum that attracts well known trainers and serious shooters in general. I learn something everytime I log in.

porkskin · October 17, 2007, 07:32 AM

I prefer to clear the chamber by rotating the cylander via second trigeer pull ;}. Seriously I would not insert new mag until jam is rectified.

Erik · October 17, 2007, 10:02 AM

Another "strip mag, rack three times, LOOK, insert new mag, release slide chambering round" advocate. Adjust only as much as necessary should the slide find its way forward for whatever reason.

Night Watch · October 17, 2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dwatts47
I practice, 'tap-rack-bang'; but when the extractor rips the case rim and the case stays in the bore, you've just complicated the problem for yourself.

It's a lot harder to have to go through the process of: inverting the pistol, ejecting the, 'double-fed round' and, then, ejecting the magazine in order to clear it.

Unless you can SEE all that is needed is a, 'tap-rack-bang', (The gun’s not half out-of-battery with an obvious, 'double-feed'.) then you're always better off to: eject your mag, clear the pistol, and -then - insert a (fresh?) magazine and re:chamber. (Ed.)

Absolutely the correct approach! After several decades of doing this sort of thing, I have found no faster or better way to handle most semi-automatic jams than the above described method. (And I’ve tried them all!)

Sometimes when I in a hurry, I'll, 'half-drop' the magazine by catching it with my pinky, lock the slide back using my support hand, raise the muzzle, and cant the pistol over and back (shake) in order to clear the round. Then I'll, quickly, look at the chamber before slamming the same magazine home again.

In a really bad jam you're screwed because it's going to take a rod down the barrel or a knife blade on what's left of the rim in order to return the pistol to service. The best solution, here, is something you aren't allowed to use in most matches: a BUG!

(Excuse the editing; but, this subject is too important and too frequently confused to have been left in the original vernacular.)

Hard Ball · October 17, 2007, 02:36 PM

I dont agree with this methpd.

alizeefan · October 18, 2007, 03:15 AM

I have some serious concerns about my instructors methods. When I asked whether he preferred to " wipe " a trapped case free for a stovepipe or use tap-roll-rack he said I should do neither and instead revert to a type 3 drill

. The main problem is that firearms in my industry are VERY regulated. I cannot practice unless I am accompanied by a police approved trainer and requals must be done using the dopey methods my instructor advocates or it is an instant fail. P.S Just so you know this guy is a former member of the police TRG ( tactical response group ) which makes his techniques all the more difficult to explain.

October 16, 2007, 07:39 PM	#1
alizeefan Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	Opinions on different malfunction clearance procedure ? Our instructor is teaching a variation of the type 3 clearance drill that requires you to lock slide to the rear and strip mag like usual but then you use overhand technique to release slide, insert new mag and rack slide theoretically extracting chambered round and chambering new round. Does anyone see any merit in this or is it asking for trouble ?. Also for a stovepipe i have heard some people advocate a tap-roll-rack to clear the problem but others claim this may cause a double feed if a round has left magazine feed lips ( I have tried to cause this but have been unable to ) . Any thoughts/opinions , particularly from other instructors, would be much appreciated as this type of knowledge in the hysterically anti-gun australia is hard to come by. thank you.

October 16, 2007, 08:01 PM	#2
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	If I read that right, he is suggesting to insert the fresh mag before ensuring that the chamber is clear after any malfunction that Tap-rack-Assess/bang didn't clear? I would strongly disagree... in the case the you have a bad extractor or a ripped case rim (the two most likely causes of real malfunctions that are not a failure to feed or a failure to fire), you might need multiple manipulations of the slide, gravity or more to get the chamber clear. Inserting a full mag before ensuring you have the chamber clear is a recipe for another double feed. -RJP __________________ I.C.E. Training Company. LinkedIn Profile for Rob Pincus

October 17, 2007, 12:20 AM	#3
dwatts47 Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2007 Location: arkansas Posts: 995	This type of malf. happened to me at a match once, and was very hard to 'clear'... I practiced tap rack bang, but when the extractor rips the caserim and the case stays in the bore you've just complicated the problem for yourself. It's alot harder to remember to invert the gun to eject the 'double-fed' round and then eject the mag to clear it. unless you can SEE that all is needed is a tap rack bang (the guns not half out of battery w/a double feed) then you're always better to eject your mag clear the gun/rounds then insert and rechamber. MHO...

October 17, 2007, 02:37 AM	#4
alizeefan Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	Thanks for your input fellas. I posted a similar thread on another forum but have not been able to log in again . The general opinion is that the traditional three racks and insert mag is the way to go (which I was initially taught ). The answers I received did lead me to wonder how many people actually check for a clear chamber after racking slide three times and how many simply action slide on auto pilot and insert fresh mag. Does anyone have any experience of using tap-roll-rack to clear a stovepipe and actually end up causing a double feed ?. Again thanks for the input. It is great to have a forum that attracts well known trainers and serious shooters in general. I learn something everytime I log in.

October 17, 2007, 07:32 AM	#5
porkskin Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Posts: 335	I prefer to clear the chamber by rotating the cylander via second trigeer pull ;}. Seriously I would not insert new mag until jam is rectified.

October 17, 2007, 10:02 AM	#6
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Another "strip mag, rack three times, LOOK, insert new mag, release slide chambering round" advocate. Adjust only as much as necessary should the slide find its way forward for whatever reason.

October 17, 2007, 02:36 PM	#8
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	I dont agree with this methpd.

October 18, 2007, 03:15 AM	#9
alizeefan Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	I have some serious concerns about my instructors methods. When I asked whether he preferred to " wipe " a trapped case free for a stovepipe or use tap-roll-rack he said I should do neither and instead revert to a type 3 drill . The main problem is that firearms in my industry are VERY regulated. I cannot practice unless I am accompanied by a police approved trainer and requals must be done using the dopey methods my instructor advocates or it is an instant fail. P.S Just so you know this guy is a former member of the police TRG ( tactical response group ) which makes his techniques all the more difficult to explain.