45 Gap

G20 · May 5, 2007, 03:16 PM

Hope this hasn't been beat up on yet! whats ya'll thoughts on 45 gap

a1huntingsupply · May 5, 2007, 03:54 PM

The price and availability of ammo is what would make me pick the ACP over the GAP.

You can find some good deals on pistols chambered for the GAP because shops seem to be closing them out due to low demand.

I don't think there is enough difference between the two rounds to matter.

**44 AMP** · May 5, 2007, 04:17 PM

It is a solution in search of a problem. Doesn't fill any gap in my collection.

I'm not a Glock guy, but if you are, it might be worth something to you, if you could not grip the .45ACP size gun. Other than that, I don't see anything worthwhile about it.

Hawkman · May 5, 2007, 04:36 PM

I actually thought it had a chance when it came out. Then the xd45 acp came out with a relatively small grip, the S&W M&P45 also has a relatively small grip, and Glock itself came out with the SF which mimics (to some degree) the other two. Heck, if Glock would leave the polymer off its mags it could slim down the whole line of pistols.

I think the GAP will stagger along but will never be widely accepted.

Number 6 · May 5, 2007, 05:46 PM

The caliber owes its entire existence to Glock. It has already been selected by one gun mag as on the Top Ten list of soon-to-be extinct calibers.

All it does is clutter up range brass with crap - sort of like AMERC or WinClean.

sox · May 5, 2007, 06:22 PM

If gun makers would come out with smaller weapons for its shorter case length, its potential could be realized. For example, I would love to have the Springfield EMP available in the .45GAP in addition to the 9mm. Also, the new Walther PPS is going to come out in 9mm and .40, .45 GAP would be the bomb. I think currently there are like 27 factory loadings for it. Georgia Arms is supposed to start reloading for it, due to the adoption of the round by the Georgia State Patrol.

tony pasley · May 5, 2007, 06:41 PM

Glock wanted to try to beat the Gold standard another attempt that was doomed to failure before it started.

robc · May 5, 2007, 11:20 PM

Not a credible or important addition to the current stable of available chamberings. Like someone else wrote, a solution in search of a problem. What is it, like 2 mm shorter than a ACP? How many folks were ever gonna re-tool for that?

G20 · May 5, 2007, 11:38 PM

I've never been to a range where you can shoot only 45! very interesting!!! and 40 to s&w &357 sig to sig sauer/45acp to colt

austinguy23 · May 6, 2007, 01:44 AM

The .45 GAP offers the same ballistics as a .45 ACP in a gun the size of a comparable 9mm. This comes in very handy when you're looking for easy concealability and a nice grip size for small to average sized hands.

Also, the recoil is mild with minimal muzzle "flip". My next gun will be a Glock model 39 (the sub-compact).

By the way, you're going to have to look through the sentimental BS that a lot of old-timers will throw your way claiming the .45 GAP is crap and lacks any redeeming value over the ACP. Such comments are based on sentimentality and emotion rather than cold hard facts.

For an excellent resource for the .45 GAP caliber, check out GlockTalk's forum below:

http://glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=87

If you look hard enough, you may come across an article from an old timer stating the .45 GAP is a solution in search of a problem or some such non-sense, but most gun writers have written very flattering articles about both the caliber as well as the Glocks that are chambered for them (note that several other gun manufacturers are also selling .45 GAP pistols...not just Glock). You may want to pick up the current June 2007 issue of the magazine "Combat Handguns" which has a nice article on the Glock 39 sub-compact and the .45 GAP cartridge. Below are some good articles as well:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_.../glock37_0305/

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/new_45/

I'd post a negative article if I knew of one.

By the way, several law enforcement agencies have already adopted the caliber and are very happy with it. The New York Police Department, Georgia Police Department, and Pennsylvania Police Department are only a few that come to mind...

Johnc · May 6, 2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

The caliber owes its entire existence to Glock. It has already been selected by one gun mag as on the Top Ten list of soon-to-be extinct calibers.

+1 on the above.

Be it a good chambering or bad, if it does not get "popular" fast it will go the way of the dinosaur.

Number 6 · May 6, 2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

By the way, several law enforcement agencies have already adopted the caliber and are very happy with it. The New York Police Department, Georgia Police Department, and Pennsylvania Police Department are only a few that come to mind...

Unless you mean New York CITY, the three departments allegedly using the GAP don't exist.

austinguy23 · May 6, 2007, 10:05 AM

California, Huntington Park P.D., -- Issued Glock 37/Win. Ranger 230 and G22/Win. Ranger 165 only

Colorado, Denver Police Department – Glock 37, 38, & 39

Georgia State Patrol

Kansas, Burden Police Department – Glock 37

Michigan, Reed City Police Department – Glock 37

NC, Greenville Police Department – Glock 37

New York State Police (5,400 Glock 37's replacing their current Glock 17's)

Pennsylvania State Police

South Carolina Highway Patrol

Wyoming, Powell Police Department -- Glock 37

Number 6 · May 6, 2007, 11:15 AM

Translation: "Police Department" apparently now means "State Police."

Or states are now mere municipalities.........

hpg · May 6, 2007, 04:19 PM

It's on it's way OUT.......Even though Glock is cutting deals with Large Agencies to keep it alive................hpg

gmarr · May 6, 2007, 04:37 PM

It's an excellent round. Try it before you talk about it. I've been carrying it on duty, G37, LEO in Miami, for three years now and have no complaints.

It equals the ACP in every grain (load), I and several of my officers tested it aganist the .40 and the .45 ACP. It equaled or surpassed (200 gr. GDHP) the performance. Blasphemy I know, but the biggest obstacle to the GAP is public opinion or ignorance not performance.

It does what the ACP does but in a smaller package. What's not good about that?

austinguy23 · May 6, 2007, 05:27 PM

There you have it, G20. A law enforcement officer who has actual experience with the caliber. Enough said.

I'm exiting this thread because some are being juvenile. What did I tell you about emotion & sentimentality earlier? ;-)

G20 · May 6, 2007, 09:01 PM

Austin GUY, Well said & enough said BULLS EYE!

UH1-D Rotorhead · May 7, 2007, 07:28 AM

Good job austin...are you a member of the Bull Dog Club? Check that "other" thread and ease yourself out of the dark side with dilitantes drowning in their doom and gloom hysteria.

kgpcr · May 7, 2007, 08:50 PM

It serves no purpose! It will be dead soon and thats just fine with me. A solution to a problem that never existed.....

UH1-D Rotorhead · May 7, 2007, 10:36 PM

There ya' go G20...intelligent, scientifically researched, and unbiased "opinions" from combat hardened veterans and world class ranked pistoleros who have the final say so on the success or failure of an improvement of an old design whose time has come. I just love smart people.

**44 AMP** · May 7, 2007, 11:50 PM

I suppose I could get all neanderthal/medieval here, but I'll try not to. I'm afraid that the .45 GAP just doesn't do anything for me. I'm not claiming it is crap, after all, since it duplicates the .45ACP, how could I? I'm too emotional and sentimental about my old ACP round. And since the "recoil is mild with minimal muzzle flip" is the smaller lighter GAP pistol, then it must be milder yet in my larger heavier ACP gun.

No matter that it has gotten good reviews (and when have the gun writers given bad ones?), or the fact that it will do the job well enough (just as the ACP does), and the fact that the smaller pistols have an appeal for many, the GAP just hasn't set the shooting world on fire.

Some rounds are successful from the beginning, others struggle for acceptance, and others just struggle. Some never get beyond limited use, and some don't even get that. The GAP may go either way, but I understand Springfield has dropped the chambering from it's current lineup.

My apologies to all, if my not falling down on my knees and worshiping at at the altar of GAP in the temple of Glock makes me emotional and sentimental. You asked for my thoughts, and you got them. Does that make me childish? You may note that I'm not the one who took my ball and went home.

UH1-D Rotorhead · May 8, 2007, 06:10 PM

I heard that someone said the GAP owes its existance to Glock...if so, I wonder who the 45 ACP (Colt), Sig 357 (Sauer), 38 SPL (S&W), and others owe their existance to? I am confused.

kgpcr · May 8, 2007, 10:19 PM

UHI it owes it to John Moses Browning. as for the .45ACP having it "Time come" I think you are off your rocker or have no clue what you are talking about. If its time had come people would be flocking to the GAP and they are not. The Pistoleros and what not you mentioned may not be as smart as you but then again they see no need to buy a new fad that is here today and gone tomorrow. We will see if the GAP is here 100 yrs from now. It offers no meaningful improvement over the ACP and millions out there agree that why the GAP sales are so piss poor. Hey by the way UHI how do you think the
41AE is going to do??

Jason_G · May 8, 2007, 10:50 PM

I've looked at different ballistic charts, etc., and I firmly believe in giving new and different things a fair shake, but to be honest, I don't see anything overly impressive about the caliber. For standard 230 grain ammo, there's not much difference in the ballistics, but from what I've seen so far it seems like you can get much hotter loads in ACP than you can in GAP (unless maybe you load your own). For now, I think I'll stick with ACP, but I'll keep an open mind...

Jason

May 5, 2007, 03:16 PM	#1
G20 Member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: EAST TN Posts: 40	45 Gap Hope this hasn't been beat up on yet! whats ya'll thoughts on 45 gap

May 5, 2007, 04:17 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,486	.45 Gap? It is a solution in search of a problem. Doesn't fill any gap in my collection. I'm not a Glock guy, but if you are, it might be worth something to you, if you could not grip the .45ACP size gun. Other than that, I don't see anything worthwhile about it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 5, 2007, 11:20 PM	#8
robc Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 422	Not a credible or important addition to the current stable of available chamberings. Like someone else wrote, a solution in search of a problem. What is it, like 2 mm shorter than a ACP? How many folks were ever gonna re-tool for that? __________________ "If it bleeds, we can kill it."

May 5, 2007, 11:38 PM	#9
G20 Member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: EAST TN Posts: 40	gap I've never been to a range where you can shoot only 45! very interesting!!! and 40 to s&w &357 sig to sig sauer/45acp to colt Last edited by G20; May 5, 2007 at 11:41 PM. Reason: afterthought

May 6, 2007, 01:44 AM	#10
austinguy23 Member Join Date: May 2, 2007 Posts: 41	.45 GAP is Awesome The .45 GAP offers the same ballistics as a .45 ACP in a gun the size of a comparable 9mm. This comes in very handy when you're looking for easy concealability and a nice grip size for small to average sized hands. Also, the recoil is mild with minimal muzzle "flip". My next gun will be a Glock model 39 (the sub-compact). By the way, you're going to have to look through the sentimental BS that a lot of old-timers will throw your way claiming the .45 GAP is crap and lacks any redeeming value over the ACP. Such comments are based on sentimentality and emotion rather than cold hard facts. For an excellent resource for the .45 GAP caliber, check out GlockTalk's forum below: http://glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=87 If you look hard enough, you may come across an article from an old timer stating the .45 GAP is a solution in search of a problem or some such non-sense, but most gun writers have written very flattering articles about both the caliber as well as the Glocks that are chambered for them (note that several other gun manufacturers are also selling .45 GAP pistols...not just Glock). You may want to pick up the current June 2007 issue of the magazine "Combat Handguns" which has a nice article on the Glock 39 sub-compact and the .45 GAP cartridge. Below are some good articles as well: http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_.../glock37_0305/ http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/new_45/ I'd post a negative article if I knew of one. By the way, several law enforcement agencies have already adopted the caliber and are very happy with it. The New York Police Department, Georgia Police Department, and Pennsylvania Police Department are only a few that come to mind...

May 5, 2007, 03:54 PM	#2
a1huntingsupply Member Join Date: August 8, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 62	The price and availability of ammo is what would make me pick the ACP over the GAP. You can find some good deals on pistols chambered for the GAP because shops seem to be closing them out due to low demand. I don't think there is enough difference between the two rounds to matter.

May 5, 2007, 04:36 PM	#4
Hawkman Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 447	I actually thought it had a chance when it came out. Then the xd45 acp came out with a relatively small grip, the S&W M&P45 also has a relatively small grip, and Glock itself came out with the SF which mimics (to some degree) the other two. Heck, if Glock would leave the polymer off its mags it could slim down the whole line of pistols. I think the GAP will stagger along but will never be widely accepted.

May 5, 2007, 05:46 PM	#5
Number 6 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 919	The caliber owes its entire existence to Glock. It has already been selected by one gun mag as on the Top Ten list of soon-to-be extinct calibers. All it does is clutter up range brass with crap - sort of like AMERC or WinClean.

May 5, 2007, 06:22 PM	#6
sox Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta Georgia Posts: 591	If gun makers would come out with smaller weapons for its shorter case length, its potential could be realized. For example, I would love to have the Springfield EMP available in the .45GAP in addition to the 9mm. Also, the new Walther PPS is going to come out in 9mm and .40, .45 GAP would be the bomb. I think currently there are like 27 factory loadings for it. Georgia Arms is supposed to start reloading for it, due to the adoption of the round by the Georgia State Patrol.

May 5, 2007, 06:41 PM	#7
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	Glock wanted to try to beat the Gold standard another attempt that was doomed to failure before it started.

May 6, 2007, 10:05 AM	#13
austinguy23 Member Join Date: May 2, 2007 Posts: 41	California, Huntington Park P.D., -- Issued Glock 37/Win. Ranger 230 and G22/Win. Ranger 165 only Colorado, Denver Police Department – Glock 37, 38, & 39 Georgia State Patrol Kansas, Burden Police Department – Glock 37 Michigan, Reed City Police Department – Glock 37 NC, Greenville Police Department – Glock 37 New York State Police (5,400 Glock 37's replacing their current Glock 17's) Pennsylvania State Police South Carolina Highway Patrol Wyoming, Powell Police Department -- Glock 37

May 6, 2007, 11:15 AM	#14
Number 6 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 919	Translation: "Police Department" apparently now means "State Police." Or states are now mere municipalities.........

May 6, 2007, 04:19 PM	#15
hpg Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2002 Location: in the Bluegrass State Posts: 1,610	It's on it's way OUT.......Even though Glock is cutting deals with Large Agencies to keep it alive................hpg

May 6, 2007, 04:37 PM	#16
gmarr Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 268	It's an excellent round. Try it before you talk about it. I've been carrying it on duty, G37, LEO in Miami, for three years now and have no complaints. It equals the ACP in every grain (load), I and several of my officers tested it aganist the .40 and the .45 ACP. It equaled or surpassed (200 gr. GDHP) the performance. Blasphemy I know, but the biggest obstacle to the GAP is public opinion or ignorance not performance. It does what the ACP does but in a smaller package. What's not good about that?

May 6, 2007, 05:27 PM	#17
austinguy23 Member Join Date: May 2, 2007 Posts: 41	There you have it, G20. A law enforcement officer who has actual experience with the caliber. Enough said. I'm exiting this thread because some are being juvenile. What did I tell you about emotion & sentimentality earlier? ;-)

May 6, 2007, 09:01 PM	#18
G20 Member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: EAST TN Posts: 40	Gap Austin GUY, Well said & enough said BULLS EYE!

May 7, 2007, 07:28 AM	#19
UH1-D Rotorhead Junior member Join Date: March 15, 2006 Posts: 576	Good job austin...are you a member of the Bull Dog Club? Check that "other" thread and ease yourself out of the dark side with dilitantes drowning in their doom and gloom hysteria.

May 7, 2007, 08:50 PM	#20
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	It serves no purpose! It will be dead soon and thats just fine with me. A solution to a problem that never existed..... __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

May 7, 2007, 10:36 PM	#21
UH1-D Rotorhead Junior member Join Date: March 15, 2006 Posts: 576	There ya' go G20...intelligent, scientifically researched, and unbiased "opinions" from combat hardened veterans and world class ranked pistoleros who have the final say so on the success or failure of an improvement of an old design whose time has come. I just love smart people.

May 7, 2007, 11:50 PM	#22
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,486	Emotion and sentimentality? I suppose I could get all neanderthal/medieval here, but I'll try not to. I'm afraid that the .45 GAP just doesn't do anything for me. I'm not claiming it is crap, after all, since it duplicates the .45ACP, how could I? I'm too emotional and sentimental about my old ACP round. And since the "recoil is mild with minimal muzzle flip" is the smaller lighter GAP pistol, then it must be milder yet in my larger heavier ACP gun. No matter that it has gotten good reviews (and when have the gun writers given bad ones?), or the fact that it will do the job well enough (just as the ACP does), and the fact that the smaller pistols have an appeal for many, the GAP just hasn't set the shooting world on fire. Some rounds are successful from the beginning, others struggle for acceptance, and others just struggle. Some never get beyond limited use, and some don't even get that. The GAP may go either way, but I understand Springfield has dropped the chambering from it's current lineup. My apologies to all, if my not falling down on my knees and worshiping at at the altar of GAP in the temple of Glock makes me emotional and sentimental. You asked for my thoughts, and you got them. Does that make me childish? You may note that I'm not the one who took my ball and went home. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 8, 2007, 06:10 PM	#23
UH1-D Rotorhead Junior member Join Date: March 15, 2006 Posts: 576	I heard that someone said the GAP owes its existance to Glock...if so, I wonder who the 45 ACP (Colt), Sig 357 (Sauer), 38 SPL (S&W), and others owe their existance to? I am confused.

May 8, 2007, 10:19 PM	#24
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	UHI it owes it to John Moses Browning. as for the .45ACP having it "Time come" I think you are off your rocker or have no clue what you are talking about. If its time had come people would be flocking to the GAP and they are not. The Pistoleros and what not you mentioned may not be as smart as you but then again they see no need to buy a new fad that is here today and gone tomorrow. We will see if the GAP is here 100 yrs from now. It offers no meaningful improvement over the ACP and millions out there agree that why the GAP sales are so piss poor. Hey by the way UHI how do you think the 41AE is going to do?? __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

May 8, 2007, 10:50 PM	#25
Jason_G Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,902	I've looked at different ballistic charts, etc., and I firmly believe in giving new and different things a fair shake, but to be honest, I don't see anything overly impressive about the caliber. For standard 230 grain ammo, there's not much difference in the ballistics, but from what I've seen so far it seems like you can get much hotter loads in ACP than you can in GAP (unless maybe you load your own). For now, I think I'll stick with ACP, but I'll keep an open mind... Jason