What NOT to do....

[Darren007]

From the the point of view of a mil-surp collector. I know many dont agree with me...thats fine. But IMHO, all I can ask is ......

"Why God, WHY???"......



BTW...in case you cant tell, these "were/are" Russian M44s.

[chris in va]

It's an old Mosin, why not? I like the bottom one.

My friend is from Russia. He doesn't care, you should see how he whacks the front sight over.

[Tikirocker]

Big surprise Darren ... I agree. I have no clue why some people feel the need to turn a horse into a camel = what do ya get? An idiot stick.

This is what we call the work of bubba ... you can't educate people who just don't get it.

[Darren007]

HAHA... I knew you'd agree Tikirocker!!!

Chris in VA,... I'm taking you off of my Christmas card list!!

[Tikirocker]

Here's another horror including the poor souls comments on it.

Older military rifles are perfect for the man without a lot of money. Once painted, the Enfield .303 is still a dangerous weapon for someone that can pull the trigger.

Of course sans paint it's entirely docile?

[Darren007]

HAHA....yep without the "tactical" paint job its totally harmless.

Tikirocker, on another forum a few years back. This kid jumps on and posts pictures of an all matching K98K that belonged to his grandfather. He spray bombed it this hideous black and white "camo" color from butt to muzzle including the bolt.

He posted before and after pics...and then remarked in a post..." Once I get my scope mount and scope, I'll have turned a $150 rifle into a $1,000 dollar tactical sniper".:barf: (Were guessing the "$150, was what he thought or was told it was worth). A mod posted right after that and said.."no, you just turned a $900 rifle into a piece of $50 firewood...the world of history buffs thanks you" HAHAHA...the kid was quite upset that nobody appreciated his handiwork. We never saw him on after that.

[Tikirocker]

An all matching K98 ???? Oh ...... My ....... God ..... :barf:

[jpwilly]

Sorry I have to disagree with you on those M44's the camo one is my favorite. Let me add one from my own collection to this thread feel free to rip me a new one! Was an M44, 1946 in mint like new condition with matching numbers...looked like it was hardly shot at all was so pristine poor thing got cut and turned into my favorite M44:

[Darren007]

Its all good JPwilly!!!! while I dont agree with it, I started this thread just for pokin' fun!!! As I said before...its your rifle, you can do what you want!!

[ELMOUSMC]

I took a model 44 with a blond laminated stock all matching #s and factory new I had a machinist take off the bayonet lug and add a flash suppressor,then I removed the rear sight put a B-square mount and LER Simmons 2,5 x 40 scope on it.It fills the need with out shelling out the big bucks for my dedicated coyote gun.I have it air brushed in woodland camo and if I get a nick or scratch I just give it a shot with a can of spray paint.Rifle like this were made to be used an abused in a was time enviroment I am getting more use out of it that if I worried about perserving some war time artifact that in a hundred years will still only be worth a $150 bucks. Don,t rip me a new 1 after all I understand some people like to keep their Milsurp rifles mint IMHO it is sort of a waste of very customizable good shooting rifles ELMOUSMC USMC 1965-1992

[ELMOUSMC]

I took a model 44 with a blond laminated stock all matching #s and factory new I had a machinist take off the bayonet lug and add a flash suppressor,then I removed the rear sight put a B-square mount and LER Simmons 2,5 x 40 scope on it.It fills the need with out shelling out the big bucks for my dedicated coyote gun.I have it air brushed in woodland camo and if I get a nick or scratch I just give it a shot with a can of spray paint.Rifle like this were made to be used an abused in a war time enviroment I am getting more use out of it that if I worried about perserving some war time artifact that in a hundred years will still only be worth a $150 bucks. Don,t rip me a new 1 after all I understand some people like to keep their Milsurp rifles mint IMHO it is sort of a waste of very customizable good shooting rifles ELMOUSMC USMC 1965-1992

[Darren007]

this were made to be used an abused in a war time enviroment I am getting more use out of it that if I worried about perserving some war time artifact that in a hundred years will still only be worth a $150 bucks. Don,t rip me a new 1 after all I understand some people like to keep their Milsurp rifles mint IMHO it is sort of a waste of very customizable good shooting rifles

1956...Middle of Nowhere America.....

Eddie..."Hey Wally, look what I got"

Wally...."Whooaa..a real Mauser K98K just like the Nazis had!!!..."

Eddie..."Yeah my dad got it for me at Ma and Pa Kettles Hardware store for $15.00 for my birthday"

Wally..."neato"

Eddie..."My Dads gonna chop the stock down and drill it for a scope"

Wally...."No way, you should just leave it as it is.....it might be worth something someday"

Eddie..."Hey you little creep, dont get wise, these are just junky old war rifles, they arent worth anything and besides, theres thousands of them...."



2008.....Price of K98K in original condtion... $900-$1200 dollars.

Price of same rifle, "sporterized"....$100-$200 dollars.

[Tikirocker]

Bingo ... the less I say from here on the better - it's a topic I'm passionate about.

[CGSteve8718]

I'm not a die hard or anything, but I too believe in preserving the original military rifles.

When I say I'm not a "die hard", I mean, that if I bought a K98 that was a Russian capture, I'm not going to freak out and hate it. I'm also not die hard in restoring my M1 Garand back to original WWII configuration. Waay too expensive and time consuming. As long as it's still a non bubbaed M1 Garand, the overall platform having served time in WWII is plenty good enough for me.

Edit: Oh, and I'm pretty young, so all hope is not lost.

[Curtis(USAF)]

Its your rifle, do what you want with it, just leave me and my Mosin out of it.

Personally, I'd recommend running the numbers and markings. You'll probably want to kick yourself if you just did that to a Tula, or a gun with some extra special history.

[Bogie]

They look like decent enough hunting rifles. Face it - for a hundred or so, that's a heckuva deer rifle.

I'm probably going end end up bubbaing a Yugo mauser with a scout-type scope. Be a nice woods gun.

[hoytinak]

As much as I like the looks of good ol' military rifles, I say if someone wants to paint it more power to them. I know I like to add a personal touch to just about everything I own ie. guns, trucks, bikes...whatever the case. If they are happy painting them will then good for them.

[Tamara]

If it was something other than a garden-variety M44, I might get more worked up about it. Same thing with most of the Turks and Yugos out there. As it is, I think it's a little silly and probably doesn't make financial sense when you step back and look at it, but for the most part I just keep my mouth shut.

There are rocks in my garden that are probably millions of years old, but they're just rocks. Not every rock is a diamond.



(PS: If someone reading this is planning on "Bubba-izing" their Mosin, do yourself and posterity the favor of checking here first. If it's a round-receiver 91/30 from Izhevsk dated between '42 and '44, or a '44-'48 Izhevsk M44, then it's not really a very spectacular piece of history. I mean, Trabants and Yugos go to the crusher every day and no one weeps, right? If it's a Finnish-capture M44 or a Polish 91/30, however, you should just sell it intact to a cruffler and use the proceeds to buy a nice new Remington.)

[Hawg]

I wouldn't Bubba a complete military rifle but I took a 98 Mauser that was already Bubba'd and made a really nice deer rifle out of it. I also took a Smith Corona 1903A3 reciever that had already been drilled and tapped and made an awsum(expensive too)target rifle out of it.

[Tikirocker]

There are rocks in my garden that are probably millions of years old, but they're just rocks. Not every rock is a diamond.

They used to think that about Dodo's and Tasmanian Tigers too.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by Tikirocker

They used to think that about Dodo's and Tasmanian Tigers too.

Not every housecat is a Tasmanian tiger, nor is every barnyard fowl a dodo. There are so many '42-'44 Izhevsk 91/30's in the U.S. that, were every shooter in the U.S. to "bubba-ize" one per day, we'd be a decade before we were done.

There is a difference between an heirloom and an heirlump. A late 19th-Century Colt revolver is worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars; a S&W from the same period is worth a couple hundred; an Iver Johnson or H&R, maybe a c-note; and a no-name hardware-store brand "British Bulldog" knockoff isn't worth the effort it would take for me to cart it to the band saw.


Also, to expand on the above:
If you read firearms collecting books from the '50s and early '60s, almost no mention is given to Mausers or Mosins or Enfields at all. It probably took many by surprise when, 30 years later, old South American Mausers, say, became a collecting field all their own. Thanks to this, I believe collectors, importers, distributors, and dealers have become much more savvy during the second Golden Age of milsurps. Rare stuff is far more likely to be sorted out well upstream of the end purchaser. The odds of pulling a rare rifle off a table of undifferentiated, cosmoline-soaked, fresh-from-the-importer guns have become infinitesimal, because the importer has already worked them over with a copy of the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms in one hand and a Fjestad's in the other.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

What they did to those Mosin's and that enfield is just tyranny. There is no reason to do that to a rifle. It wasn't made to do that. It wasn't designed to do that. Golly, these people...

Imma gunna shoot bubba.

[Tikirocker]

Tamara,

The point is the Tassie Tiger and Dodo used to be as common as a house cat and barnyard owl - it's only with the benefit of hindsight we are able to wax poetic about how misguided we once were yet fail to learn from it and apply it to our present. The U.S has seen a glut of Mosin recently and they might be common now but there will come a time when they dry up and I venture even then a good condition M44 will rise in price and popularity as the years drag on.

The bottom line for me is one of principle - leave complete military rifles complete. If you want a sporter there's zillions of them already prepared and waiting in the used section of every gun shop 90% already done how you plan to hack that Russian for less effort.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by Tikirocker

The bottom line for me is one of principle - leave complete military rifles complete. If you want a sporter there's zillions of them already prepared and waiting in the used section of every gun shop 90% already done how you plan to hack that Russian for less effort.

See, that's where I'm torn.

I totally agree with everything you said after "If you want..."

I generally agree with the principle of leaving complete military rifles complete, too. Among the knick-knacks on my desk is the sawed-off bolt handle from a cherry Argie 1909 carbine that I couldn't talk the idio... er, I mean, "customer" out of scoping.

On the other hand, I myself spent a ton of money turning a totally junked Turk (bad Ankara re-arsenalling; pitted, dark, shot-out bore; stock that had been attacked by angry beavers; didn't headspace,) into an elegant sporter. Instead of a $40 tomato stake good for nothing but hanging on the wall, I have a lovely custom rifle built just the way I wanted, for which I have turned down serious offers of as much as $600. And no, I couldn't have bought a used sporter that did the same thing, because a used Savage 110 doesn't have a Lilja barrel, isn't chambered for .300 Whisper, and most importantly, isn't built on a solid, Oberndorf-made '98 action.

If it's any consolation, I'm doing my part: I'm caring for and maintaining, at last count, 48 antique military rifles in their as-issued condition.

[theoldgringo]

This recurring topic seems to consistently bring out more passionate, subjective opinion than most and it also seems to be dominated by a few hard line advocates from both sides of the issue. After watching two of these threads (with reserved amusement) I have reached the conclusion that Tamara seems to be the (only) one here who has firmly fastened a handle of sanity to the issue.

Somebody paints up a 1953 Chevy In whatever color and it's amusing (send it to the crusher), whereas if somebody does the same with a 1953 Silver Ghost, it's a travesty.............it really is. M44's=1953 Chevy's.

There are cases of nice M44 shooters in this village that can be had for between $80. & $100 every day. You can't say that about a Finn anywhere.

Yeah I collect (and shoot them all) and you won't find a altered milsurp in my gun room, but not having an unlimited budget, I wait until a quality shooter comes my way and then I pounce. I'd much rather have a $600. beauty that I can fuss over than six M44's that are at best, look-alike safe fillers.

By the way, if I ever see a bubba'd Garand, or quality matching "anything", I'll be the first to say...."SOMEBODY GET A ROPE".

Semper Fi, mates..........................tog