Vargent/sierra loads

LSMNTBC · December 21, 2006, 07:29 PM

Long time lurker first time poster, so bear with me. Looking threw books I have been unable to find load specs for .223 loads using sierra 69gr HPBT with hodgens vargent powder. Any help with a good min max load would be great. Stuffing into federal brass along with federal primers. (yes this will be my first babies hatched) Thanks for any help in advance!!!!

Buckythebrewer · December 21, 2006, 08:15 PM

Start @ Min.My Lee book shows 70gr(yours being 69 gr will be safe with this data) jacketed bullets with

varget-----(you did mean VARGET right?!!)----- powder @ min,23.5gr and @ MAX,26.0gr.Cartridge Min OAL is 2.200

This data show velocities between 2749fps, to 3024fps
You should get the Lee book

Dont take my word for it,,I could be giving you bad data

Start at minimum and work up looking for any pressure signs .There are so many variables in the rifle chamber,brass,primers,temp,etc,etc that can effect pressures,so its always smart to start at the bottom (My start loads have always functioned flawless in my ar15)

You Probably didn't find data because The 69gr bullet is so close to 70 gr.
You are usually safe(except for reducing to much with a slow burning powder)going with a load data like the 70gr and using for a slightly lighter bullet like the 69gr.If you used load data FOR a lighter bullet and used it for a heavy bullet YOUR PRESSURES could be WAY to high If using the wrong powder for the application

..
If you notice there is probably load data for using Varget(charges being different) in say, A 63grBULLET.Then look and you will see VARGET used for Heavier bullets say 70-80gr(Notice with heavier bullets using the same VARGET powder as the light bullets the charges with the HEAVY bullets are reduced to keep pressures down),,Am I right??

Its all about the different burn rate of powders.Heavier bullets require slower powders(to fill the case safely) usually,And light bullets can use faster burning powders(carefull of overfilling and double charges)..Double check everything im saying(with load data) so there is no chance of error on my part or yours.Good luck

OH YAA!! WELCOME to this very cool Gun forum

Rimrod · December 21, 2006, 08:26 PM

Your good Bucky, the Hodgdon annual lists the 69gr. Sierra with a starting load of 24.0grs. to a max load of 26.0grs. of Varget.

They were using Winchester brass and primers though.

LSMNTBC · December 21, 2006, 08:32 PM

Thank you Bucky. Yes I did mean Varget. I was think of starting at 24 gr. It is getting blasted out of a 1:9 twist 16 inch wilson chrome lined AR barrel. I was just making sure that I wasent going to be starting to high. Wasen't quite sure with the ligter bullet which way to go with the charges up or down. As for over presures I am lucky with the loads that I do they get tested out of a V block. Thanks again.

Does brass make that much difference it is new never fired with primers already installed. The price was right!!!

Buckythebrewer · December 21, 2006, 08:57 PM

Sorry I edited so many times

I believe the brass can have an affect near max loads.Not sure on that one,It will at least effect case capacity because of brass thickness and head variances(as will sizing die adjustment on the shoulder)..I wanted to mention also That barrel twist can effect your pressures as well.If your near max load, a faster twist barrel can increase pressures too.Thats why they always say work up loads, because there are so many things that can make a BIG difference if your already ON dangerous ground.Your usually safe going with a lighter bullet using the same data as the slightly heavier bullets call for.Its going with a HEAVY bullet that can get you in BIG!!! trouble USING DATA from THE lighter BULLET loads.

Bullet94 · December 22, 2006, 01:06 AM

I asked the same question once and here is what someone replied. -

From Sierra Edition V manual:
69 gr. HPBT MatchKing
Cal 223 Remington

AR15 Rifles:
Accuracy load: Varget 25.3 gr 2750 fps
Max Varget load is 26.1 @ 2850 fps

HSMITH · December 22, 2006, 02:03 AM

My 223s like MAX loads of Varget, and then a little more in some cases. Start at a reasonable load from printed data, work the load from there. Be careful and watch for pressure signs, stop if ANYTHING is even slightly off from where it should be,

Buckythebrewer · December 22, 2006, 02:59 AM

Bullet94,I would guess that load data would be for a shorter barreled ar15(like 16").I say that because the Lee max load says Over 3000Fps with tha same powder charge???.In a shorter barrel you will see less pressure(I believe)...Like I said,I have always had excellent results with start loads as far as reliable function in my ar15.For the loads I shot @ 600yrds I found 23.8 gr of h4895 using 77gr smk worked very well(near 1/2 M.O.A.).That was not max loads, but getting cloe to it..I say GO 100% by recommendations from the load data in manuals like LEE.I have all my fingers still thanks to mY Lee and Lyman books recommendations

.

IMO, START WITH start loads.They will work good,And then work up

Kato_Guy · December 22, 2006, 08:26 AM

Hey everyone!!

Whhen you say a starting load at say 23.5 gr and max load of 26.5 gr. when you start working your way to aa max load do you go up in like .5 gr increments or how big of a step do you take???

I am still reading and trying to gather as much info before taking the plung into reloading so thanks for the help !!!!

Long Live the WSM!!!

Buckythebrewer · December 22, 2006, 09:12 AM

I use .5, but when you get near hot loads a .5 could be WAY!! to much of a jump.When I am near max loads(or see signs starting to show) I start making 1/10 of a grain adjustments instead 1/2 gr adjustment.I compare it to getting near the edge of a cliff

.you can walk to it fine but when you get near the edge, you better inch the rest of the way or your going over.

Bullet94 · December 22, 2006, 10:49 AM

Buckythebrewer I only showed the data for an AR since this is what was asked for. The data for a bolt rifle was different and shows velocities up to 3100fps. -

From Sierra Edition V manual:
69 gr. HPBT MatchKing
Cal 223 Remington

Bolt Rifles:
Accuracy load: Viht N540 26.5 gr 3100 fps
Varget start load 19.9 gr @ 2600 fps, max load 26.4 gr @ 3100 fps

AR15 Rifles:
Accuracy load: Varget 25.3 gr 2750 fps
Max Varget load is 26.1 @ 2850 fps

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

In my AR a RRA Varminter 20-inch barrel Wylde chamber. I’m shooting 69gr Moly SMK’s using VV N540 27.4gr at 2950 fps. This load is now above the VV MAX listed load.

Kato_Guy · December 22, 2006, 11:56 AM

thanks bucky!!

Buckythebrewer · December 22, 2006, 02:07 PM

Your welcome

,,My cousen has a sweet 7mm wsm.VERY accurate bolt gun and it shoots SO smooth.I like the Winchester WSM alot

Buckythebrewer · December 22, 2006, 02:18 PM

LSMTBC,, I bet that 24gr will work great.

I have fired reduced charges near 16gr with a2015br using 55gr fmj and actually almost cycled the action

..I find the ar15 very flexible with all the handloads ive done ranging from 35gr(almost NO recoil) vmax,,,to 80gr smk..using all kinds of brass(winchester and LC being my best groups that I remember).
80gr smk is the only round I hand fed.All others loads magazine fed perfectly using orlite mags.

Bullet94 · December 23, 2006, 03:19 AM

Hey Bucky

Do you ever go here? –

http://www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?

Buckythebrewer · December 23, 2006, 04:20 AM

Yes,I just did.

thanks ,because I just found an awesome link on homebrew gun cleaners and lubricants there.I was not surprised to see(my favorite gun lube)Marvel Mystery oil in the mix

.I have the sight on my favorites but don't visit to often because its not as active as this sight.

rn22723 · December 23, 2006, 08:52 PM

First off Federal Brass is soft, and this means short case life ie primer pockets expand way too much. For the 223 the a better choice is to use RP or WW or LC brass. Is this for a bolt gun or AR? For a bolt gun and precision ammo I would not think twice about getting my hands one some Lapua 223 brass it will last many reloads because you only will need to neck size for a bolt gun.

Go to to Hodgdon's website www.hodgdon.com and look at the 223 reloading data. Use the 70gr data for the 69OTM bullet. The concensus is that with Varget is best accuracy comes around 25 gr of Varget. Better primer choices are out othere, amongst them is the RP 7.5 primer and the BR4 is not bad, but if you are making blasting ammo vs precision ammo I would stick with RP 7.5. Varget is not really a good powder for use with a progressive loading operation. But, you can not beat the across the bullet wt spectrum performance in the 223 from 40 to 80gr bullets it is has done well for me uses.

LSMNTBC · December 23, 2006, 11:19 PM

RN you have im inbound

LSMNTBC · December 28, 2006, 07:00 PM

Just wanted to thank everyone for there replys and Help. Just a little info on the first hatched babies that got tested. With the federal brass and primers with 24 gns of varget powder behind a 69 gn sierra matchking bullet I got an average group of 1.2 inches at 200 yds Not to bad for a rookie if you ask me!! Velocities were little low at 2600-2660 fps. Bumping up to 25 gns to see if I can get smaller groups. That average that I had was 6 groupings with 5 shots in each group. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO!! Hope I can return the favor in time!!!

December 21, 2006, 07:29 PM	#1
LSMNTBC Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 24	Vargent/sierra loads Long time lurker first time poster, so bear with me. Looking threw books I have been unable to find load specs for .223 loads using sierra 69gr HPBT with hodgens vargent powder. Any help with a good min max load would be great. Stuffing into federal brass along with federal primers. (yes this will be my first babies hatched) Thanks for any help in advance!!!!

December 21, 2006, 08:15 PM	#2
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Start @ Min.My Lee book shows 70gr(yours being 69 gr will be safe with this data) jacketed bullets with varget-----(you did mean VARGET right?!!)----- powder @ min,23.5gr and @ MAX,26.0gr.Cartridge Min OAL is 2.200 This data show velocities between 2749fps, to 3024fps You should get the Lee bookDont take my word for it,,I could be giving you bad data Start at minimum and work up looking for any pressure signs .There are so many variables in the rifle chamber,brass,primers,temp,etc,etc that can effect pressures,so its always smart to start at the bottom (My start loads have always functioned flawless in my ar15) You Probably didn't find data because The 69gr bullet is so close to 70 gr. You are usually safe(except for reducing to much with a slow burning powder)going with a load data like the 70gr and using for a slightly lighter bullet like the 69gr.If you used load data FOR a lighter bullet and used it for a heavy bullet YOUR PRESSURES could be WAY to high If using the wrong powder for the application.. If you notice there is probably load data for using Varget(charges being different) in say, A 63grBULLET.Then look and you will see VARGET used for Heavier bullets say 70-80gr(Notice with heavier bullets using the same VARGET powder as the light bullets the charges with the HEAVY bullets are reduced to keep pressures down),,Am I right?? Its all about the different burn rate of powders.Heavier bullets require slower powders(to fill the case safely) usually,And light bullets can use faster burning powders(carefull of overfilling and double charges)..Double check everything im saying(with load data) so there is no chance of error on my part or yours.Good luck OH YAA!! WELCOME to this very cool Gun forum

December 21, 2006, 08:57 PM	#5
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Sorry I edited so many timesI believe the brass can have an affect near max loads.Not sure on that one,It will at least effect case capacity because of brass thickness and head variances(as will sizing die adjustment on the shoulder)..I wanted to mention also That barrel twist can effect your pressures as well.If your near max load, a faster twist barrel can increase pressures too.Thats why they always say work up loads, because there are so many things that can make a BIG difference if your already ON dangerous ground.Your usually safe going with a lighter bullet using the same data as the slightly heavier bullets call for.Its going with a HEAVY bullet that can get you in BIG!!! trouble USING DATA from THE lighter BULLET loads.

December 22, 2006, 02:59 AM	#8
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Bullet94,I would guess that load data would be for a shorter barreled ar15(like 16").I say that because the Lee max load says Over 3000Fps with tha same powder charge???.In a shorter barrel you will see less pressure(I believe)...Like I said,I have always had excellent results with start loads as far as reliable function in my ar15.For the loads I shot @ 600yrds I found 23.8 gr of h4895 using 77gr smk worked very well(near 1/2 M.O.A.).That was not max loads, but getting cloe to it..I say GO 100% by recommendations from the load data in manuals like LEE.I have all my fingers still thanks to mY Lee and Lyman books recommendations. IMO, START WITH start loads.They will work good,And then work up

December 22, 2006, 02:07 PM	#13
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Your welcome,,My cousen has a sweet 7mm wsm.VERY accurate bolt gun and it shoots SO smooth.I like the Winchester WSM alot

December 21, 2006, 08:26 PM	#3
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	Your good Bucky, the Hodgdon annual lists the 69gr. Sierra with a starting load of 24.0grs. to a max load of 26.0grs. of Varget. They were using Winchester brass and primers though.

December 21, 2006, 08:32 PM	#4
LSMNTBC Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 24	Thank you Bucky. Yes I did mean Varget. I was think of starting at 24 gr. It is getting blasted out of a 1:9 twist 16 inch wilson chrome lined AR barrel. I was just making sure that I wasent going to be starting to high. Wasen't quite sure with the ligter bullet which way to go with the charges up or down. As for over presures I am lucky with the loads that I do they get tested out of a V block. Thanks again. Does brass make that much difference it is new never fired with primers already installed. The price was right!!!

December 22, 2006, 01:06 AM	#6
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	I asked the same question once and here is what someone replied. - From Sierra Edition V manual: 69 gr. HPBT MatchKing Cal 223 Remington AR15 Rifles: Accuracy load: Varget 25.3 gr 2750 fps Max Varget load is 26.1 @ 2850 fps

December 22, 2006, 02:03 AM	#7
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2002 Posts: 2,019	My 223s like MAX loads of Varget, and then a little more in some cases. Start at a reasonable load from printed data, work the load from there. Be careful and watch for pressure signs, stop if ANYTHING is even slightly off from where it should be,

December 22, 2006, 08:26 AM	#9
Kato_Guy Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 212	Hey everyone!! Whhen you say a starting load at say 23.5 gr and max load of 26.5 gr. when you start working your way to aa max load do you go up in like .5 gr increments or how big of a step do you take??? I am still reading and trying to gather as much info before taking the plung into reloading so thanks for the help !!!! Long Live the WSM!!!

December 22, 2006, 09:12 AM	#10
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	I use .5, but when you get near hot loads a .5 could be WAY!! to much of a jump.When I am near max loads(or see signs starting to show) I start making 1/10 of a grain adjustments instead 1/2 gr adjustment.I compare it to getting near the edge of a cliff .you can walk to it fine but when you get near the edge, you better inch the rest of the way or your going over.

December 22, 2006, 10:49 AM	#11
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	Buckythebrewer I only showed the data for an AR since this is what was asked for. The data for a bolt rifle was different and shows velocities up to 3100fps. - From Sierra Edition V manual: 69 gr. HPBT MatchKing Cal 223 Remington Bolt Rifles: Accuracy load: Viht N540 26.5 gr 3100 fps Varget start load 19.9 gr @ 2600 fps, max load 26.4 gr @ 3100 fps AR15 Rifles: Accuracy load: Varget 25.3 gr 2750 fps Max Varget load is 26.1 @ 2850 fps CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. In my AR a RRA Varminter 20-inch barrel Wylde chamber. I’m shooting 69gr Moly SMK’s using VV N540 27.4gr at 2950 fps. This load is now above the VV MAX listed load.

December 22, 2006, 11:56 AM	#12
Kato_Guy Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 212	thanks bucky!!

December 22, 2006, 02:18 PM	#14
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	LSMTBC,, I bet that 24gr will work great.I have fired reduced charges near 16gr with a2015br using 55gr fmj and actually almost cycled the action ..I find the ar15 very flexible with all the handloads ive done ranging from 35gr(almost NO recoil) vmax,,,to 80gr smk..using all kinds of brass(winchester and LC being my best groups that I remember). 80gr smk is the only round I hand fed.All others loads magazine fed perfectly using orlite mags.

December 23, 2006, 03:19 AM	#15
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	Hey Bucky Do you ever go here? – http://www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?

December 23, 2006, 04:20 AM	#16
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Yes,I just did. thanks ,because I just found an awesome link on homebrew gun cleaners and lubricants there.I was not surprised to see(my favorite gun lube)Marvel Mystery oil in the mix.I have the sight on my favorites but don't visit to often because its not as active as this sight.

December 23, 2006, 08:52 PM	#17
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	First off Federal Brass is soft, and this means short case life ie primer pockets expand way too much. For the 223 the a better choice is to use RP or WW or LC brass. Is this for a bolt gun or AR? For a bolt gun and precision ammo I would not think twice about getting my hands one some Lapua 223 brass it will last many reloads because you only will need to neck size for a bolt gun. Go to to Hodgdon's website www.hodgdon.com and look at the 223 reloading data. Use the 70gr data for the 69OTM bullet. The concensus is that with Varget is best accuracy comes around 25 gr of Varget. Better primer choices are out othere, amongst them is the RP 7.5 primer and the BR4 is not bad, but if you are making blasting ammo vs precision ammo I would stick with RP 7.5. Varget is not really a good powder for use with a progressive loading operation. But, you can not beat the across the bullet wt spectrum performance in the 223 from 40 to 80gr bullets it is has done well for me uses.

December 23, 2006, 11:19 PM	#18
LSMNTBC Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 24	RN you have im inbound

December 28, 2006, 07:00 PM	#19
LSMNTBC Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 24	Thank you all Just wanted to thank everyone for there replys and Help. Just a little info on the first hatched babies that got tested. With the federal brass and primers with 24 gns of varget powder behind a 69 gn sierra matchking bullet I got an average group of 1.2 inches at 200 yds Not to bad for a rookie if you ask me!! Velocities were little low at 2600-2660 fps. Bumping up to 25 gns to see if I can get smaller groups. That average that I had was 6 groupings with 5 shots in each group. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO!! Hope I can return the favor in time!!!