"A tragic day" at a public firing range

[Erno86]

Yesterday...there was an accident at a Oregon public gun range, on BLM property, involving a WWII era M-18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer. Apparently, an internal tank explosion happened --- killing two people.

The M-18 is a light armored anti-tank vehicle with a 76mm gun in it's final version. The M-18 involved, was privately owned and operated.

Out of battery discharge, maybe?


http://www.katu.com/news/local/Autho...337925212.html

[ligonierbill]

I hope this isn't the guy I saw recently on the "Weapons Hunter". He featured a guy, I think in Oregon, that restored old military vehicles. On the show, he was helping him restore a tank destroyer.

[rickyrick]

I bet the restored tank community is a very small circle.

Condolences go out to those involved.

[steveno]

where do you get ammo for a 76 mm gun?

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

I hope this isn't the guy I saw recently on the "Weapons Hunter". He featured a guy, I think in Oregon, that restored old military vehicles. On the show, he was helping him restore a tank destroyer.

Sorry to hear it. Sounds like it was the one they were firing on the Discovery Channel "Weapons Hunter:

Paramedics tried to save the victims but they died from their injuries. They've been identified as Steven T. Preston, 51, and Austin Tyler Lee, 22, both of Oregon City.

---

Ripp also said Preston used the M18 for school fundraisers and other causes. He says Preston had recently done a commercial with the tank and also has appeared with it on the Discovery Channel.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

On that same Discovery episode they had a guy who had rebuilt a Pak40. He also made his own ammo for the cannon. I wonder if something similar happened with the M18?

[kilimanjaro]

I understand most ammo for these kind of things is made by the owners.

Willing to bet a round was fired with the breech unlocked.

Whatever the cause, a sad day for two families.

[HiBC]

Sad loss.My condolences to family and friends.

I know absolutely nothing about the 76 mm gun.

I would be very surprised if a gun designed to be used during the stress of battle could be fired with the breech out of battery.

[Erno86]

"I can't verify it to be true, but a source yesterday said it was a hangfire."

quote: -z/28-



"This is why the 30 minute rule exists for the artillery. If it doesn't go off, pull the lanyard again. If it still doesn't go off, move away and wait 30 minutes before doing anything. Combat may be different, but with training and range op's, there should be no rush which could get someone killed."


quote: Straightshooter

[Tinbucket]

Practice and adherance, to safety procedures. Still s happens.
Cousin, a Marine Sgt 5 of just a few months, lost his life in Nam when mortar he was manning exploded leaving the tube.
Whoever was fusing the mortars might have made a mistake. We'll never know.
Sorry for family and friends of these Enthusiasts.

[44 AMP]

A hangfire and opening the breech at just the wrong time is more plausible to me than an out of battery fire.

(although technically it would still be OOB fire)

Truly tragic.

[Andy Blozinski]

Out of battery seems to be the only thing that makes sense if the rounds are made reasonably safe. The place where I crew a StuG IIIG has two M-18s. I'll have to ask him his thoughts on it.

[Trebor]

I've read the ammo is home made using Naval 3" projo's modified as actual 76mm projectiles are impossible to find.

A poster on another board said it was a hangfire that detonated when teh breech was opened. I don't know if his info is accurate though as I don't know his source.

[carguychris]

You're allowed to shoot LIGHT ARTILLERY at a BLM range?!? Wow.

[Disclaimer: Never been to one, as BLM land is scarce in TX.]

[dakota.potts]

I had the same thought, Chris. My local DNR shooting range prohibits .50 caliber or above. I'd love to tell them I'm going to show up with a 300 caliber firearm and fire it.

As far as the actual event, it is very sad. The other guy who died with him was very young and I wonder if he was as aware of the risks as the owner of the vehicle was.

[FrankenMauser]

Originally Posted by carguychris

You're allowed to shoot LIGHT ARTILLERY at a BLM range?!? Wow.

It's a lease property.
That means that it's under the control of a private entity (likely a corporation - non-profit, or otherwise).

So, even though the BLM probably doesn't want, and may still prohibit such activity, the current tenant probably gave them the okay for the live fire.


---
Many public outdoor ranges are on BLM property, out west. It's very common for 40 to 640 acres to be leased by a corporation that is formed solely to establish, maintain, and operate a shooting range. Unfortunately, though... the BLM has been reluctant to renew expiring leases for the last 25+ years. So many of the existing ranges are operating on expired leases and actually have no right to be there (including two ranges close to me, which are 8 years and 19 years past expiry).
But the politics behind that are a different subject....

[44 AMP]

You're allowed to shoot LIGHT ARTILLERY at a BLM range?!?

"light artillery" is only light artillery when firing artillery (exploding) projectiles. Otherwise, its just a very large rifle.

Generally, exploding shells are "destructive devices" under Federal law, and registered, taxed and tracked similar to NFA items.

What most re-enactors do is use inert projectiles. Training rounds are a major source, and often they have to modified to be able to be used in your gun.

Naval 3" projectiles would be possible, 3" is 76.2mm, but might need modification to be able to be used, I don't know the details. They might also be a source for 75mm slugs, turned down to fit.

With artillery there are TWO sources of risk, the explosive projectile, and the pressure of the powder during firing. A defective projectile can explode early, causing serious injury or death. Rare, but it has happened.

using solid shot in a cannon removes that particular risk, but the risk of the powder is still there. Just like the risk in your bolt action rifle. The difference is the SCALE. The same problem that results in a wrecked rifle and injury to a small arms shooter is often fatal to anyone nearby when the scale is increased to light artillery or larger.

I believe the last time something like this happened on an IOWA class battleship, about a dozen people died in the event.

it is always tragic.