Opinions or experiences with Russian/Soviet handguns

geologist · July 29, 2006, 03:11 AM

I would like to get some opinions on the following Russian/Soviet handguns.

I've read a fair bit about Tokarevs and Makarov PM and PMM but would be interested in any experiences or opinions concerning the handguns on this list.

I'd be interested in rating these handguns in terms of reliabilty, size and weight with respect to daily concealed carry (Kramer Confidant undershirt), calibre, magazine capacity and effectiveness at 20m or less.

Thanks for any info you guys can provide.

Korovin TK
Tokarev TT
Makarov PM/PMM
Stechkin APS
PSM
PSS
Serdyukov SPS/Gyurza/Vector
Yarygin PYa/Grach
GSh-18
OTs-27 "Berdysh"
OTs-33 "Pernach"
SPP-1 underwater
MP-446 "Viking"
MP-448 "Skyph"
P96 P96S P96M

oldmaster111 · July 29, 2006, 03:49 AM

I carry a Makarov and have complete faith in it. It never fails to fire or eject brass, is not all that heavy or large and as most encounters when your concealed weapon would be used probably would be within a distance of 10 to 20 feet, the 9x18 will accomplish what you need. Ammo is easy to find and several good companies make ccw holsters for it. Also the price is easily affordable. Don't buy a Chinese one as they are not as reliable.

dajowi · July 29, 2006, 03:01 PM

A friend of mine has a Makarov. When I fist saw it I was a bit envious. That is until I shot it. Of all the calibers and pistols from all the different manufacturers that I've shot, this pistol beat my hand up so bad after one magazine that I didn't want to shot it anymore. I can hardly imagine grabbing this gun in an emergency and trying to defend myself. It was a painful experience in the most ideal of circumstances.

Alex_L · July 29, 2006, 04:39 PM

1.TT- no safeties at all. Spoiled Browning. Cheap WWII pistol. Quite reliable.
2. PM - spoiled Walter
3. Stechkin - has automatic-fire mode which practically can't be used

Big and heavy. Status pistol.

All these guns are hard for field stripping and use non-standard ammo. There are more modern models you mentioned at the end of your list, which I do not know. What I do know is that this month russian goverment permitted bying guns for police and special units. Glocks, Sigs and so on. My humble personal advice: do not f* with this stuff for practical purposes, it's for collection only.

geologist · July 29, 2006, 05:20 PM

Alex L

Thanks for your imput. If I had my way I would choose my GLOCK17 GEN3.

I will be working in a former Soviet republic so handguns of Russian/Soviet manufacture will be much more available to me.

I think that a Makarov PM in 9x18 in a Kramer Confidant shirt would probably be the best choice in terms of concealability and reliability.

Eghad · July 29, 2006, 07:27 PM

I have a Makarov so far it has not had a failure to feed or malfunction after a box of brown bear shells with just an initial cleaning.

Wrangler5 · July 29, 2006, 10:20 PM

I've had several Makarovs for a year or more and they have become my favorite centerfire pistols for plinking at the 50 yard steel plates at our range. I also carry a Mak daily in an Eric Larsen IWB holster, in the cooler months when I can cover it with something (I carry a pocket gun in the heat when I'm only wearing a thin shirt.) Before I got the Larsen holster (took 8 months) I carried in a FIST adjustable thin Kydex IWB holster with great comfort, although if I were to do another one I'd probably spring for the hybrid (thin Kydex overlaid with thin leather.) I do I have complete confidence in the Mak, and am quite accurate with it, so it's a keeper. Very robust, very reliable, very simple to field strip for routine cleaning, and only slightly more complex to strip down further for more thorough cleaning. I'd guess that Mak ammo would be available where you're going. Supposedly has the fewest number of parts of any semiautomatic pistol.

I've had a chance to shoot a friend's Stechkin a couple of times, which also uses the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. A large gun, holds 20 rounds in the grip, which is fat but not unwieldy, and very easy to control full auto with the holster/shoulder stock installed. Slightly less controllable with just one or two hands. Still, they're a hoot to shoot, but not very practical for much more than high intensity room clearing. I have the impression, though, that there are practically no transferable Stechkins in the US (my friend is a Class III dealer) and that they could not be legally imported to the US even if you could get one overseas.

Alex_L · July 30, 2006, 07:19 AM

Geologist
As far as I know, there is no problem to buy import pistol in former S.U. republics, if you've got an appropriate permission. In Moldaviya and Baltic states you can buy it at gun store, while in others you can self-import it.
Still, if I had the only choice from the above list, I would pick TT.

geologist · July 30, 2006, 08:05 AM

Alex L

Why the TT over the Makarov?

How is the TT to carry concealed in hot weather?

Do you recommend the TT in 9x18 or 7.62x25?

I'm looking at civilian defense in remote and urban settings.

geologist · July 30, 2006, 08:07 AM

Guys

For those of you carrying the Makarov, are you carrying with a round in the chamber, the hammer de-cocked and the safety off?

If not, what condition of readiness are you using?

Alex_L · July 30, 2006, 09:32 AM

I know only 7.62x25 caliber for TT, 9x18 is Makarov.
Why? Because it is simple and dependable, just point and shoot like your Glock. It does not need much attention and can stay uncleaned. Regarding concealing, it's very individual issue.
In remote locations there's nothing better than shotgun.

revjen45 · July 30, 2006, 12:50 PM

I have an East German Mak made in 1961. It is a beautiful gun and has been completely reliable thru several hundred rounds. The Mak is an example of balance: just the right size- small enough to carry concealed, big enough to be easy to shoot well; easy to field strip; not as powerful as a 9X19 but better than a .380. All in all, I love mine and would not hesitate to depend on it.

denfoote · July 30, 2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

I will be working in a former Soviet republic so handguns of Russian/Soviet manufacture will be much more available to me.

I think that a Makarov PM in 9x18 in a Kramer Confidant shirt would probably be the best choice in terms of concealability and reliability.

Unless you want to spend a looooong time in a former soviet gulag, you had better forget this foolish idea. Civilians are not allowed to possess handguns there!!

Harry Paget Flashman · July 30, 2006, 10:43 PM

I had a Polish-made TT-33 several years ago. First trip to the range, parts fell off of it while shooting. My one and only experience was with a klunker. I gave it away. I like the CZ 52 better.

Jehzsa · July 31, 2006, 04:06 PM

Hands down, the Grach. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg50-e.htm

Adopted by the Russian military. Can handle really hot cartridges. Or the milder NATO stuff.

July 29, 2006, 03:11 AM	#1
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	Opinions or experiences with Russian/Soviet handguns I would like to get some opinions on the following Russian/Soviet handguns. I've read a fair bit about Tokarevs and Makarov PM and PMM but would be interested in any experiences or opinions concerning the handguns on this list. I'd be interested in rating these handguns in terms of reliabilty, size and weight with respect to daily concealed carry (Kramer Confidant undershirt), calibre, magazine capacity and effectiveness at 20m or less. Thanks for any info you guys can provide. Korovin TK Tokarev TT Makarov PM/PMM Stechkin APS PSM PSS Serdyukov SPS/Gyurza/Vector Yarygin PYa/Grach GSh-18 OTs-27 "Berdysh" OTs-33 "Pernach" SPP-1 underwater MP-446 "Viking" MP-448 "Skyph" P96 P96S P96M

July 29, 2006, 03:49 AM	#2
oldmaster111 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 199	I carry a Makarov and have complete faith in it. It never fails to fire or eject brass, is not all that heavy or large and as most encounters when your concealed weapon would be used probably would be within a distance of 10 to 20 feet, the 9x18 will accomplish what you need. Ammo is easy to find and several good companies make ccw holsters for it. Also the price is easily affordable. Don't buy a Chinese one as they are not as reliable.

July 29, 2006, 03:01 PM	#3
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	A friend of mine has a Makarov. When I fist saw it I was a bit envious. That is until I shot it. Of all the calibers and pistols from all the different manufacturers that I've shot, this pistol beat my hand up so bad after one magazine that I didn't want to shot it anymore. I can hardly imagine grabbing this gun in an emergency and trying to defend myself. It was a painful experience in the most ideal of circumstances.

July 29, 2006, 04:39 PM	#4
Alex_L Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2005 Posts: 144	1.TT- no safeties at all. Spoiled Browning. Cheap WWII pistol. Quite reliable. 2. PM - spoiled Walter 3. Stechkin - has automatic-fire mode which practically can't be used Big and heavy. Status pistol. All these guns are hard for field stripping and use non-standard ammo. There are more modern models you mentioned at the end of your list, which I do not know. What I do know is that this month russian goverment permitted bying guns for police and special units. Glocks, Sigs and so on. My humble personal advice: do not f* with this stuff for practical purposes, it's for collection only.

July 29, 2006, 05:20 PM	#5
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	Alex L Thanks for your imput. If I had my way I would choose my GLOCK17 GEN3. I will be working in a former Soviet republic so handguns of Russian/Soviet manufacture will be much more available to me. I think that a Makarov PM in 9x18 in a Kramer Confidant shirt would probably be the best choice in terms of concealability and reliability.

July 29, 2006, 07:27 PM	#6
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	I have a Makarov so far it has not had a failure to feed or malfunction after a box of brown bear shells with just an initial cleaning.

July 29, 2006, 10:20 PM	#7
Wrangler5 Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 326	I've had several Makarovs for a year or more and they have become my favorite centerfire pistols for plinking at the 50 yard steel plates at our range. I also carry a Mak daily in an Eric Larsen IWB holster, in the cooler months when I can cover it with something (I carry a pocket gun in the heat when I'm only wearing a thin shirt.) Before I got the Larsen holster (took 8 months) I carried in a FIST adjustable thin Kydex IWB holster with great comfort, although if I were to do another one I'd probably spring for the hybrid (thin Kydex overlaid with thin leather.) I do I have complete confidence in the Mak, and am quite accurate with it, so it's a keeper. Very robust, very reliable, very simple to field strip for routine cleaning, and only slightly more complex to strip down further for more thorough cleaning. I'd guess that Mak ammo would be available where you're going. Supposedly has the fewest number of parts of any semiautomatic pistol. I've had a chance to shoot a friend's Stechkin a couple of times, which also uses the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. A large gun, holds 20 rounds in the grip, which is fat but not unwieldy, and very easy to control full auto with the holster/shoulder stock installed. Slightly less controllable with just one or two hands. Still, they're a hoot to shoot, but not very practical for much more than high intensity room clearing. I have the impression, though, that there are practically no transferable Stechkins in the US (my friend is a Class III dealer) and that they could not be legally imported to the US even if you could get one overseas.

July 30, 2006, 07:19 AM	#8
Alex_L Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2005 Posts: 144	Geologist As far as I know, there is no problem to buy import pistol in former S.U. republics, if you've got an appropriate permission. In Moldaviya and Baltic states you can buy it at gun store, while in others you can self-import it. Still, if I had the only choice from the above list, I would pick TT.

July 30, 2006, 08:05 AM	#9
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	Alex L Why the TT over the Makarov? How is the TT to carry concealed in hot weather? Do you recommend the TT in 9x18 or 7.62x25? I'm looking at civilian defense in remote and urban settings.

July 30, 2006, 08:07 AM	#10
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	Guys For those of you carrying the Makarov, are you carrying with a round in the chamber, the hammer de-cocked and the safety off? If not, what condition of readiness are you using?

July 30, 2006, 09:32 AM	#11
Alex_L Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2005 Posts: 144	I know only 7.62x25 caliber for TT, 9x18 is Makarov. Why? Because it is simple and dependable, just point and shoot like your Glock. It does not need much attention and can stay uncleaned. Regarding concealing, it's very individual issue. In remote locations there's nothing better than shotgun.

July 30, 2006, 12:50 PM	#12
revjen45 Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 626	I have an East German Mak made in 1961. It is a beautiful gun and has been completely reliable thru several hundred rounds. The Mak is an example of balance: just the right size- small enough to carry concealed, big enough to be easy to shoot well; easy to field strip; not as powerful as a 9X19 but better than a .380. All in all, I love mine and would not hesitate to depend on it.

July 30, 2006, 10:43 PM	#14
Harry Paget Flashman Member Join Date: April 26, 2006 Location: NW Florida Posts: 48	I had a Polish-made TT-33 several years ago. First trip to the range, parts fell off of it while shooting. My one and only experience was with a klunker. I gave it away. I like the CZ 52 better.

July 31, 2006, 04:06 PM	#15
Jehzsa Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2004 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 756	Hands down, the Grach. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg50-e.htm Adopted by the Russian military. Can handle really hot cartridges. Or the milder NATO stuff.