Opinions on Reloading

rjv140 · April 16, 2006, 08:33 PM

I currently reload for my 7mm-08 ruger m77 all weather. i use 39.1 gr of imr-4320 with 139 hornady spitzers. i get about 1inch to 1 1/2 inch groups regularly. i use full length dies rcbs dies, my two concerns are first if i get a neck die and just resize the neck will my gun shoot better because the case will be custom to my gun and two i do not use a flash hole deburring tool and would my groups tighten up if i started? thanks

**Unclenick** · April 16, 2006, 09:40 PM

Neck-sizing only will help extend your case life because the stretching that causes case head separation will no longer be happening. It will also allow your bullets to line up with the bore better if your boltface is truly perpendicular to the bore axis and your bolt lugs both make solid contact and you are using a match seating die, like the Redding Competition Seating Die.

If your bolt face needs truing or your bolt lugs need lapping, you can temporarily compensate by orienting the neck-sized cartridges the same way (headstamp in the same postion on the clock) each time you fire them. If doing this improves your accuracy with a neck-sized cases over randomly oriented insertion of rounds with neck-sized cases, then you need to look into having a gunsmith lap the lugs and then check whether the bolt face also needs truing? If the bolt lugs don't contact fairly evenly, there is a rotational moment in the action that causes lateral barrel vibration that can cause horizontal group spread.

Once you know the boltface and lugs are behaving, if you don't start using a match seating die, you are losing the bullet alignment advantage. The runnout error caused by using a standard seating die will exceed the amount of error introduced by the case being loose in the chamber.

I was able to cut group size in my M1A by deburring flashholes for ball powder. I saw no difference with stick powders. This is because ball powders are more difficult to ignite uniformly. If you get your gun down into the 1/2" group area at 100 yards, then you may be able to see a difference on a stick powder at that range as well. The other time it can help with a stick powder is for long range loads. It will reduce the velocity extreme spread, which matters surprisingly little at 100 yards, but matters quite a bit at 1000 yards. I do it for 600 yard loads, but even there don't really see a lot of difference unless it is a ball powder.

Nick

Buckythebrewer · April 17, 2006, 10:11 AM

I believe the biggest advantage you will notice is brass life savings with a neck sizing die.maybe accuracy like unclenick said.I like my collet die but I haven't seen the accuracy advantage(not to say its not possibly there)my ar15 with cheap Lee pacesetter full length dies is getting 1/2 " and better 5 shot groups with 77-80gr SMK @100yrds.getting a compariter mic is a good way to use a full sizing die and only size what you need to and no more.rcbs sell a O.K. one for $35+/-.It allows you to check your shoulder displacement after firing so when you resize you can adjust your die to just resize back as little as safety alows(semi-auto's)A neck sizing die(at least the lee collet die)also makes it nice because you don't have to lube your cases when sizing

a big plus IMO.If you've got a BOLT action I would get the collet neck sizing die.its cheap easy and can maybe help in accuracy and definetly saves brass life.then just trim/debur, clean the pockets, and prime.oh,,also I have read in many books/magazine articles that getting a primer deburring tool can help accuracy

one other thing,,if your using a bolt action rifle and single feed. I think you will notice the biggest accuracy difference when you try different seating depths and different powder charges.that is my experience.try seating to touch the rifling(being carefull with powder charges)and then try backing off the lands a little at a time until you see your accuracy change for better or worse.try doing this at starting loads(for safety)I find my ar15 stays fairly accurate even at .030 away from the rifling.I keep my powder charges the same in a safe start load and then very my seating depth.when you get a sweat spot try a little more powder if you don't see any overpressure signs..if its still shooting good try slightly changing your seating depth again(maybe you can do even better).if it goes south put it back were its good.
I also do all my checking on sand bags(to try and eliminate errors)and Ive found alot of errors can be from not setting up the bags properly and that has changed my consisteny throwing off my shots..well theres some thoughts anyways

hoghunting · April 18, 2006, 01:05 AM

I just do a partial resize and have good results. Take your full lenght resizing die and back it out a couple of turns. Dip the case neck in powdered graphite(you can get a tube at a hardware store) and run it into the die. Take the case back out and check where the graphite has been rubbed off. Turn the die slowly and keep checking until the graphite mark is right at the neck/shoulder junction. Lock your die in and reload from there. The cases will not be fully sized, so they will not work in all rifles.

April 16, 2006, 08:33 PM	#1
rjv140 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Posts: 142	Opinions on Reloading I currently reload for my 7mm-08 ruger m77 all weather. i use 39.1 gr of imr-4320 with 139 hornady spitzers. i get about 1inch to 1 1/2 inch groups regularly. i use full length dies rcbs dies, my two concerns are first if i get a neck die and just resize the neck will my gun shoot better because the case will be custom to my gun and two i do not use a flash hole deburring tool and would my groups tighten up if i started? thanks

April 16, 2006, 09:40 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	Neck-sizing only will help extend your case life because the stretching that causes case head separation will no longer be happening. It will also allow your bullets to line up with the bore better if your boltface is truly perpendicular to the bore axis and your bolt lugs both make solid contact and you are using a match seating die, like the Redding Competition Seating Die. If your bolt face needs truing or your bolt lugs need lapping, you can temporarily compensate by orienting the neck-sized cartridges the same way (headstamp in the same postion on the clock) each time you fire them. If doing this improves your accuracy with a neck-sized cases over randomly oriented insertion of rounds with neck-sized cases, then you need to look into having a gunsmith lap the lugs and then check whether the bolt face also needs truing? If the bolt lugs don't contact fairly evenly, there is a rotational moment in the action that causes lateral barrel vibration that can cause horizontal group spread. Once you know the boltface and lugs are behaving, if you don't start using a match seating die, you are losing the bullet alignment advantage. The runnout error caused by using a standard seating die will exceed the amount of error introduced by the case being loose in the chamber. I was able to cut group size in my M1A by deburring flashholes for ball powder. I saw no difference with stick powders. This is because ball powders are more difficult to ignite uniformly. If you get your gun down into the 1/2" group area at 100 yards, then you may be able to see a difference on a stick powder at that range as well. The other time it can help with a stick powder is for long range loads. It will reduce the velocity extreme spread, which matters surprisingly little at 100 yards, but matters quite a bit at 1000 yards. I do it for 600 yard loads, but even there don't really see a lot of difference unless it is a ball powder. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 17, 2006, 10:11 AM	#3
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	I believe the biggest advantage you will notice is brass life savings with a neck sizing die.maybe accuracy like unclenick said.I like my collet die but I haven't seen the accuracy advantage(not to say its not possibly there)my ar15 with cheap Lee pacesetter full length dies is getting 1/2 " and better 5 shot groups with 77-80gr SMK @100yrds.getting a compariter mic is a good way to use a full sizing die and only size what you need to and no more.rcbs sell a O.K. one for $35+/-.It allows you to check your shoulder displacement after firing so when you resize you can adjust your die to just resize back as little as safety alows(semi-auto's)A neck sizing die(at least the lee collet die)also makes it nice because you don't have to lube your cases when sizing a big plus IMO.If you've got a BOLT action I would get the collet neck sizing die.its cheap easy and can maybe help in accuracy and definetly saves brass life.then just trim/debur, clean the pockets, and prime.oh,,also I have read in many books/magazine articles that getting a primer deburring tool can help accuracyone other thing,,if your using a bolt action rifle and single feed. I think you will notice the biggest accuracy difference when you try different seating depths and different powder charges.that is my experience.try seating to touch the rifling(being carefull with powder charges)and then try backing off the lands a little at a time until you see your accuracy change for better or worse.try doing this at starting loads(for safety)I find my ar15 stays fairly accurate even at .030 away from the rifling.I keep my powder charges the same in a safe start load and then very my seating depth.when you get a sweat spot try a little more powder if you don't see any overpressure signs..if its still shooting good try slightly changing your seating depth again(maybe you can do even better).if it goes south put it back were its good. I also do all my checking on sand bags(to try and eliminate errors)and Ive found alot of errors can be from not setting up the bags properly and that has changed my consisteny throwing off my shots..well theres some thoughts anyways

April 18, 2006, 01:05 AM	#4
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Posts: 1,559	I just do a partial resize and have good results. Take your full lenght resizing die and back it out a couple of turns. Dip the case neck in powdered graphite(you can get a tube at a hardware store) and run it into the die. Take the case back out and check where the graphite has been rubbed off. Turn the die slowly and keep checking until the graphite mark is right at the neck/shoulder junction. Lock your die in and reload from there. The cases will not be fully sized, so they will not work in all rifles.