Why concealed means concealed

invention_45 · April 10, 2006, 07:53 AM

In another thread, Hal posted a link about a CCL-carrier who got into an incident with an aggressive jerk. There was some indecision on the gun carrier's part as to whether he should, at some point during the incident, ditch the weapon before further trouble developed. The jerk saw the weapon at this point and was able to cause our fearless carrier to end up in court for brandishing.

I have had a somewhat similar situation, in that I have been threatened by a jerk to be accused of "pulling a gun". This person had seen my gun during a visit to my home. Later, we had a disagreement and, having seen the gun, decided to threaten me that he would call the police and claim I pulled it on him if I didn't do what he wanted. Luckily, in my case, he was stupid enough to make this threat to my voice mail, which I of course kept a copy of.

A month or so later, I sold the gun and then subsequently bought a new one that looked somewhat different. I know that, ordinarily, this move could make me look guilty, but I had that voicemail message.

Had I never shown the gun (it was shown in the spirit of "this is here. don't mess with it", for safety), there could have been no problem.

All I would have had to do in court (or, better still, at a deposition) is to simply ask "can you describe the gun that you allege I pulled?". Had I not ever shown it to him, well, that would have been that.

This is how the fellow in Hal's article got himself in trouble. He briefly displayed the weapon, giving the jerk a way to prove that at least he'd seen it.

And that brings us to the title of this post, which I learned a hard way (a loss of about $400 to pawn the first gun), but had I not had a stupid accuser, might have learned the VERY hard way (my day in court).

Concealed means concealed. This means nobody who doesn't absolutely need to see your weapon should see it until they're facing the business end of it. Only somebody you can GUARANTEE you'll never ever have to shoot. Like maybe your mother. Not your wife (who, these days, can become a contestant in a divorce), not your casual friends, certainly not anybody you are having the slightest beef with, not your neighbors.

Doesn't matter too much if they know you have it. Just don't let them become able to identify it.

Handy · April 10, 2006, 08:22 AM

I agree with your general principle, but an even better idea is to avoid the kind of near violent confrontations you describe. I have yet to get into a shouting match with anyone, and don't understand the need.

I also think the comment about wives frankly bizarre. If she can't be trusted on something as minor as a gun she isn't your spouse.

invention_45 · April 10, 2006, 08:38 AM

I agree on both counts, Handy.

Until that time in my life I had never had a "fight" bigger than a disagreement with a pharmacist at a Walgreens, and it didn't even amount to raised voices. But then what I thought was a friend became unfriendly. It took 50 years for it to happen, but it did.

In fact, I was going to point out that perhaps molesting the jerk's van wasn't such a good idea, but the article didn't really say it had been necessary to do so, just that the carrier did it to push away from the van. Everything else he did seemed reasonable to me except letting that gun be seen.

As for wives, if your marriage stays good or at least if you have a relatively friendly divorce, yes, I'm sure that what I said sounds bizarre. But some breakups don't end too well, and I'm not too sure it's always easy to predict that friendly people will always be so, given my experience.

My point is that, though I never see it discussed here (maybe I just missed it) maybe it's a good idea to resist the temptation to show off your weapons to just anybody.

Eghad · April 10, 2006, 08:46 AM

Just wish the jerk a nice day and leave. I dont even argue with sales clerks. I always try to practice courtesy and politness to a jerk.

Imagine you are in the American military in a foreign country, you have an allied officer trying to start an incident. He was trying to start an argument to provoke me. He was in the wrong. However I apologized to him for the misunderstanding. It hard to argue when the other fellow apologizes. Wasnt much he could do, but drop the matter. Justice was served as the American MP NCO at the checkpoint reported it to his superior..lol.

The corporate website is much better with the contact us site

invention_45 · April 10, 2006, 09:09 AM

I completely agree. The only reason I had a difference of opinion with the walgreen's clerk was because I was trying to fill a pain med prescription after a root canal.

I had made the stupid mistake of driving from my dentist in Hialeah to a Walgreens in Fort Lauderdale, about 30 miles away but near home, to get the prescription filled. The dentist had written 2.5 mg (I think) oxycodone and then overwritten it with 7.5 mg. The pharmacist assumed I did it. Unfortunately, my dentist had split for vacation the minute I left his office. Walgreen's wouldn't take the word if his office staff over the phone. I was starting to have pain already and was in quite a position.

I ended up having to drive back to Hialeah to the Eckerd's next doot to the dentist because "they knew him" and they filled the prescription.

I wasn't armed that day. Knowing I had to drive in increasing pain all that way pissed me off and I made a minor stink.

After I got my CCL I took to heart the many admonitions given during the self-defense courses and I let even more slide than I had before (and I'm not an aggressive person), and I'm meticulous about it when I AM armed.

Musketeer · April 10, 2006, 11:16 AM

invention_45,

Stop playing Perry Mason and just call the police with the tape.

Quote:

Later, we had a disagreement and, having seen the gun, decided to threaten me that he would call the police and claim I pulled it on him if I didn't do what he wanted. Luckily, in my case, he was stupid enough to make this threat to my voice mail, which I of course kept a copy of.

That is extrotion. It is a criminal offense and should be acted upon. The person making the threats should be arrested.

steelheart · April 10, 2006, 12:21 PM

Extortion is a felony, if I remember correctly. I'd take a copy of the tape to the police or prosecutor's office.

Rivers · April 10, 2006, 12:36 PM

Like Handy, I find part of your post bizarre and demonstrative of...well, being kind, showing lack of judgment. You lost $400 on selling a pistol, in order to avoid having that pistol later identified by an extortionist? Gimme a break! I also agree with Handy about the reference to your wife. Gimme two breaks!

Why would you do something like take a $400 hit on getting rid of a handgun that you didn't want to sell, when you had a preserved voicemail of an extortionist's threat?

blume357 · April 11, 2006, 07:00 AM

I'm still trying to figure out how to trade in all 15+ of my handguns so that someone won't be able to identify them.....

MEDDAC19 · April 11, 2006, 09:04 AM

Most people just describe a gun the same way regardless of the make model or caliber. I don't see how someone knowing what gun you carry is going to make any difference. "It was a big scary pistol, handgun, revolver...", or how about, "I don't know what is was? I just saw that it had a big round hole in the end pointing at me."

Best to try and avoid this type of individual and hope that your side of the story is the one that makes the most sense.

April 10, 2006, 07:53 AM	#1
invention_45 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Broward County Posts: 972	Why concealed means concealed In another thread, Hal posted a link about a CCL-carrier who got into an incident with an aggressive jerk. There was some indecision on the gun carrier's part as to whether he should, at some point during the incident, ditch the weapon before further trouble developed. The jerk saw the weapon at this point and was able to cause our fearless carrier to end up in court for brandishing. I have had a somewhat similar situation, in that I have been threatened by a jerk to be accused of "pulling a gun". This person had seen my gun during a visit to my home. Later, we had a disagreement and, having seen the gun, decided to threaten me that he would call the police and claim I pulled it on him if I didn't do what he wanted. Luckily, in my case, he was stupid enough to make this threat to my voice mail, which I of course kept a copy of. A month or so later, I sold the gun and then subsequently bought a new one that looked somewhat different. I know that, ordinarily, this move could make me look guilty, but I had that voicemail message. Had I never shown the gun (it was shown in the spirit of "this is here. don't mess with it", for safety), there could have been no problem. All I would have had to do in court (or, better still, at a deposition) is to simply ask "can you describe the gun that you allege I pulled?". Had I not ever shown it to him, well, that would have been that. This is how the fellow in Hal's article got himself in trouble. He briefly displayed the weapon, giving the jerk a way to prove that at least he'd seen it. And that brings us to the title of this post, which I learned a hard way (a loss of about $400 to pawn the first gun), but had I not had a stupid accuser, might have learned the VERY hard way (my day in court). Concealed means concealed. This means nobody who doesn't absolutely need to see your weapon should see it until they're facing the business end of it. Only somebody you can GUARANTEE you'll never ever have to shoot. Like maybe your mother. Not your wife (who, these days, can become a contestant in a divorce), not your casual friends, certainly not anybody you are having the slightest beef with, not your neighbors. Doesn't matter too much if they know you have it. Just don't let them become able to identify it.

April 10, 2006, 12:36 PM	#8
Rivers Junior member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 670	Like Handy, I find part of your post bizarre and demonstrative of...well, being kind, showing lack of judgment. You lost $400 on selling a pistol, in order to avoid having that pistol later identified by an extortionist? Gimme a break! I also agree with Handy about the reference to your wife. Gimme two breaks! Why would you do something like take a $400 hit on getting rid of a handgun that you didn't want to sell, when you had a preserved voicemail of an extortionist's threat? Last edited by Rivers; April 10, 2006 at 10:47 PM.

April 11, 2006, 07:00 AM	#9
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	dito to above I'm still trying to figure out how to trade in all 15+ of my handguns so that someone won't be able to identify them.....

April 10, 2006, 08:22 AM	#2
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	I agree with your general principle, but an even better idea is to avoid the kind of near violent confrontations you describe. I have yet to get into a shouting match with anyone, and don't understand the need. I also think the comment about wives frankly bizarre. If she can't be trusted on something as minor as a gun she isn't your spouse.

April 10, 2006, 08:38 AM	#3
invention_45 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Broward County Posts: 972	I agree on both counts, Handy. Until that time in my life I had never had a "fight" bigger than a disagreement with a pharmacist at a Walgreens, and it didn't even amount to raised voices. But then what I thought was a friend became unfriendly. It took 50 years for it to happen, but it did. In fact, I was going to point out that perhaps molesting the jerk's van wasn't such a good idea, but the article didn't really say it had been necessary to do so, just that the carrier did it to push away from the van. Everything else he did seemed reasonable to me except letting that gun be seen. As for wives, if your marriage stays good or at least if you have a relatively friendly divorce, yes, I'm sure that what I said sounds bizarre. But some breakups don't end too well, and I'm not too sure it's always easy to predict that friendly people will always be so, given my experience. My point is that, though I never see it discussed here (maybe I just missed it) maybe it's a good idea to resist the temptation to show off your weapons to just anybody.

April 10, 2006, 08:46 AM	#4
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	Just wish the jerk a nice day and leave. I dont even argue with sales clerks. I always try to practice courtesy and politness to a jerk. Imagine you are in the American military in a foreign country, you have an allied officer trying to start an incident. He was trying to start an argument to provoke me. He was in the wrong. However I apologized to him for the misunderstanding. It hard to argue when the other fellow apologizes. Wasnt much he could do, but drop the matter. Justice was served as the American MP NCO at the checkpoint reported it to his superior..lol. The corporate website is much better with the contact us site

April 10, 2006, 09:09 AM	#5
invention_45 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Broward County Posts: 972	I completely agree. The only reason I had a difference of opinion with the walgreen's clerk was because I was trying to fill a pain med prescription after a root canal. I had made the stupid mistake of driving from my dentist in Hialeah to a Walgreens in Fort Lauderdale, about 30 miles away but near home, to get the prescription filled. The dentist had written 2.5 mg (I think) oxycodone and then overwritten it with 7.5 mg. The pharmacist assumed I did it. Unfortunately, my dentist had split for vacation the minute I left his office. Walgreen's wouldn't take the word if his office staff over the phone. I was starting to have pain already and was in quite a position. I ended up having to drive back to Hialeah to the Eckerd's next doot to the dentist because "they knew him" and they filled the prescription. I wasn't armed that day. Knowing I had to drive in increasing pain all that way pissed me off and I made a minor stink. After I got my CCL I took to heart the many admonitions given during the self-defense courses and I let even more slide than I had before (and I'm not an aggressive person), and I'm meticulous about it when I AM armed.

April 10, 2006, 12:21 PM	#7
steelheart Junior member Join Date: March 8, 2006 Location: A wolf living in Sheeple land Posts: 739	Extortion is a felony, if I remember correctly. I'd take a copy of the tape to the police or prosecutor's office.

April 11, 2006, 09:04 AM	#10
MEDDAC19 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Location: Endless Mts,NEPA Posts: 379	Most people just describe a gun the same way regardless of the make model or caliber. I don't see how someone knowing what gun you carry is going to make any difference. "It was a big scary pistol, handgun, revolver...", or how about, "I don't know what is was? I just saw that it had a big round hole in the end pointing at me." Best to try and avoid this type of individual and hope that your side of the story is the one that makes the most sense.