homemade guns?

handsome frank · July 15, 2000, 10:31 PM

ive looked at this forum, through all the old messages, and someone said that it would be easy to build a submachine gun, the hardest part would be the magazine. how would one go about doing this? could you tell me in detail? there is a book on this, but it costs 20 bucks, and if you know, would you please tell me, or give me your thoughts at least? cuz when the **** hits the fan, i would like to be able to run out to my garage and whip something a little more effective than a shotgun or a hunting rifle. any ideas?

George Stringer · July 15, 2000, 11:52 PM

Frank, before you do anything else you need to contact the BATF office nearest you and get the correct procedures for obtaining the license. It's gonna cost a little more than $20. George

**4V50 Gary** · July 16, 2000, 01:57 AM

George is right. Making a full auto weapon w/out a permit (and for export, police or military) gets you into big trouble.

That said, the easiest thing to do is to design a SMG around existing magazines. Why reinvent the wheel?

Contact ATF for more info on the legalities.

handsome frank · July 16, 2000, 12:22 PM

that is EXACTLY THE REASON, i want to know..it is illegal now to do so, but say the gov. oversteps their boundaries, more than the usual. if there was a resistance, wouldnt it be useful to know this? im not doing this NOW!! i have no use for a gun like that. but it would certainly be useful then.

btw, i like the idea of designing the gun around an existing magazine, but then id still have to make the housing to hold it, and the catch. im stumped on how to make a simple extractor for an open bolt though. i know how to make the basic mechanism, except for an extractor.

johnwill · July 16, 2000, 01:14 PM

If you're hell-bent on making a full auto, I'd just cut out the sheet metal "Lightning Link" for the AR-15, all the rest of the work is already done for you.

Note that this is certainly not legal, and steel doors slamming is a chilling sound...

JimWolford · July 16, 2000, 09:39 PM

Go buy yourself a book, better hurry before the grabbers "discover" it.

"Small Arms of the World" by W. H. B. Smith, published by Stackpole Books years ago.

If you are any kind of machinist, you will get more ideas from a study of that book than you will ever carry out <S>

Magazines are no problem either, just lots of bother. Hunt up a Community College or other trade school in your area and learn something about sheet metal work.

Remember- *nobody* can jail you for *what* you know, just what you do with that knowlege

Jim

------------------
Lay up some blackpowder and flints
The rest we can build, if need be

James K · July 16, 2000, 11:11 PM

I am the person who said that the most difficult part is the magazine. That is still true, sheet metal classes notwithstanding.

But the simple fact is that for practical purposes, you can't legally do what you want to do. Obtaining a manufacturers license is difficult and expensive ($1000, not $20), and you have to show that you plan to manufacture machineguns for police or military and that you have or can get orders for your product. (Of course, there is no better way of calling attention to yourself than applying for a license.) In addition, you can't use that route to make guns for yourself or to sell to other than police and military. If you surrender the license at any time, you have to have to surrender any gun(s) you manufactured and still own.

As for doing it illegally, I for one am not going to tell you "in detail" how. Why not buy a legal MG? The cost will be less than the bondsman's fee if you are caught with an illegal gun.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · July 17, 2000, 07:51 AM

Making magazines which work isn't all that simple. First, you have to have the proper dies made. Second, you need a skilled press operator. Gauges must be made to ensure that the magazine conforms to the design. There are plenty of sorry aftermarket magazines out there and I'm sure our members can attest to this.

Angle of lips, space between lips are all critical. Follower and spring tension can't be overlooked either (the Germans will not only test a spring for its strength or compression, but also for its rate of decompression). Even if the magazine is made properly, once installed into the gun, it must sit just right if the feed rib is to strip a cartridge off each and every time (and here, the magazine spring can be critical since if it is too strong, it is pressure which retards the travel of the bolt carrier and if too weak, unreliable).

Better to adapt an existing and readily available magazine than to make an entire gun from scratch.

If TSHTF, I wouldn't want a SMG. It's too close and personal. Better to reach out, reach out and touch someone with a varminter. If you want full auto, go MA-Deuce.

July 15, 2000, 10:31 PM	#1
handsome frank Member Join Date: June 28, 2000 Location: lapeer michigan usa Posts: 16	ive looked at this forum, through all the old messages, and someone said that it would be easy to build a submachine gun, the hardest part would be the magazine. how would one go about doing this? could you tell me in detail? there is a book on this, but it costs 20 bucks, and if you know, would you please tell me, or give me your thoughts at least? cuz when the **** hits the fan, i would like to be able to run out to my garage and whip something a little more effective than a shotgun or a hunting rifle. any ideas?

July 15, 2000, 11:52 PM	#2
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Frank, before you do anything else you need to contact the BATF office nearest you and get the correct procedures for obtaining the license. It's gonna cost a little more than $20. George

July 16, 2000, 01:57 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,306	George is right. Making a full auto weapon w/out a permit (and for export, police or military) gets you into big trouble. That said, the easiest thing to do is to design a SMG around existing magazines. Why reinvent the wheel? Contact ATF for more info on the legalities.

July 16, 2000, 12:22 PM	#4
handsome frank Member Join Date: June 28, 2000 Location: lapeer michigan usa Posts: 16	that is EXACTLY THE REASON, i want to know..it is illegal now to do so, but say the gov. oversteps their boundaries, more than the usual. if there was a resistance, wouldnt it be useful to know this? im not doing this NOW!! i have no use for a gun like that. but it would certainly be useful then. btw, i like the idea of designing the gun around an existing magazine, but then id still have to make the housing to hold it, and the catch. im stumped on how to make a simple extractor for an open bolt though. i know how to make the basic mechanism, except for an extractor.

July 16, 2000, 01:14 PM	#5
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	If you're hell-bent on making a full auto, I'd just cut out the sheet metal "Lightning Link" for the AR-15, all the rest of the work is already done for you. Note that this is certainly not legal, and steel doors slamming is a chilling sound...

July 16, 2000, 09:39 PM	#6
JimWolford Member Join Date: June 21, 2000 Posts: 63	Go buy yourself a book, better hurry before the grabbers "discover" it. "Small Arms of the World" by W. H. B. Smith, published by Stackpole Books years ago. If you are any kind of machinist, you will get more ideas from a study of that book than you will ever carry out <S> Magazines are no problem either, just lots of bother. Hunt up a Community College or other trade school in your area and learn something about sheet metal work. Remember- nobody can jail you for what you know, just what you do with that knowlege Jim ------------------ Lay up some blackpowder and flints The rest we can build, if need be

July 16, 2000, 11:11 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am the person who said that the most difficult part is the magazine. That is still true, sheet metal classes notwithstanding. But the simple fact is that for practical purposes, you can't legally do what you want to do. Obtaining a manufacturers license is difficult and expensive ($1000, not $20), and you have to show that you plan to manufacture machineguns for police or military and that you have or can get orders for your product. (Of course, there is no better way of calling attention to yourself than applying for a license.) In addition, you can't use that route to make guns for yourself or to sell to other than police and military. If you surrender the license at any time, you have to have to surrender any gun(s) you manufactured and still own. As for doing it illegally, I for one am not going to tell you "in detail" how. Why not buy a legal MG? The cost will be less than the bondsman's fee if you are caught with an illegal gun. Jim

July 17, 2000, 07:51 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,306	Making magazines which work isn't all that simple. First, you have to have the proper dies made. Second, you need a skilled press operator. Gauges must be made to ensure that the magazine conforms to the design. There are plenty of sorry aftermarket magazines out there and I'm sure our members can attest to this. Angle of lips, space between lips are all critical. Follower and spring tension can't be overlooked either (the Germans will not only test a spring for its strength or compression, but also for its rate of decompression). Even if the magazine is made properly, once installed into the gun, it must sit just right if the feed rib is to strip a cartridge off each and every time (and here, the magazine spring can be critical since if it is too strong, it is pressure which retards the travel of the bolt carrier and if too weak, unreliable). Better to adapt an existing and readily available magazine than to make an entire gun from scratch. If TSHTF, I wouldn't want a SMG. It's too close and personal. Better to reach out, reach out and touch someone with a varminter. If you want full auto, go MA-Deuce.